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Why can I not achieve a constant 144 fps in Destiny 2 despite having no bottlenecks?

Nyhmz

For the majority of the game I can run it fine at 144 fps, which is my monitor's refresh rate.

 

However in some areas, mainly Mars, the framerate will not go higher than 80. I tried setting everything to low and it would still not go any higher than 80.

 

I checked for bottlenecks, none of my 7700k's threads or cores are hitting any numbers that would indicate a bottleneck there. And my 2070 SUPER isn't even hitting 60% usage. So what would cause a game to output such a low framerate when none of my hardware is really bottlenecking it, or at least none of it seems to be.

 

I could be wrong but isn't unconstrained framerate supposed to basically go as high as it can until it meets a bottleneck of some kind?

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First I would benchmark to ensure the gpu can indeed hit 100%. 

 

Could be something else holding it back in games. 

The game optimization itself. 

Drivers, ram, could be a lot of factors. 

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3 minutes ago, Nyhmz said:

For the majority of the game I can run it fine at 144 fps, which is my monitor's refresh rate.

 

However in some areas, mainly Mars, the framerate will not go higher than 80. I tried setting everything to low and it would still not go any higher than 80.

 

I checked for bottlenecks, none of my 7700k's threads or cores are hitting any numbers that would indicate a bottleneck there. And my 2070 SUPER isn't even hitting 60% usage. So what would cause a game to output such a low framerate when none of my hardware is really bottlenecking it, or at least none of it seems to be.

 

I could be wrong but isn't unconstrained framerate supposed to basically go as high as it can until it meets a bottleneck of some kind?

do you have it on an ssd? maybe at the start of a mission it's loading lots of new data and if it does it from a slow hdd it might limit the fps. can you also check the temperatures of the cpu and gpu when in that area?

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9 minutes ago, Nyhmz said:

For the majority of the game I can run it fine at 144 fps, which is my monitor's refresh rate.

 

However in some areas, mainly Mars, the framerate will not go higher than 80. I tried setting everything to low and it would still not go any higher than 80.

 

I checked for bottlenecks, none of my 7700k's threads or cores are hitting any numbers that would indicate a bottleneck there. And my 2070 SUPER isn't even hitting 60% usage. So what would cause a game to output such a low framerate when none of my hardware is really bottlenecking it, or at least none of it seems to be.

 

I could be wrong but isn't unconstrained framerate supposed to basically go as high as it can until it meets a bottleneck of some kind?

Well what is your CPU usage *while gaming* actually though?

 

It is kinda apparent something isn't working right because the GPU should be hitting 99/100% all the time in a game like that. 

 

So it's either CPU or some at this point unknown reason, which is kinda hard to guess with so little info. 

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A CPU that's not at 100% doesn't rule out that it's bottlenecking the system. If a game isn't issuing enough threads of work to saturate the CPU, then the bottleneck is due to single-core performance. It could be that Destiny 2 doesn't issue enough threads on average to saturate the 7700K.

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11 minutes ago, Nyhmz said:

For the majority of the game I can run it fine at 144 fps, which is my monitor's refresh rate.

 

However in some areas, mainly Mars, the framerate will not go higher than 80. I tried setting everything to low and it would still not go any higher than 80.

 

I checked for bottlenecks, none of my 7700k's threads or cores are hitting any numbers that would indicate a bottleneck there. And my 2070 SUPER isn't even hitting 60% usage. So what would cause a game to output such a low framerate when none of my hardware is really bottlenecking it, or at least none of it seems to be.

 

I could be wrong but isn't unconstrained framerate supposed to basically go as high as it can until it meets a bottleneck of some kind?

The 7700k uses HyperThreading. Due to the way SMT (HT) works, it is very hard to truly measure performance bottlenecks. You will never max out those threads, it is basically impossible. I suggest disabling HT as a test, then see if you are getting 100% on any cores, if so, the CPU is probably the bottleneck. Keep HT turned on, it is a good thing, but if you really need to test performance, then turn it off for the test.

 

Also, make sure you are using a tool that is truly measuring core performance. The Windows task manager has a tenancy to show even loads across all cores.

 

Even worse, Windows will sometimes move a load between cores at such a rapid rate that any form of measuring becomes next to impossible.

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3 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

A CPU that's not at 100% doesn't rule out that it's bottlenecking the system. If a game isn't issuing enough threads of work to saturate the CPU, then the bottleneck is due to single-core performance. It could be that Destiny 2 doesn't issue enough threads on average to saturate the 7700K.

13 minutes ago, Nyhmz said:

However in some areas, mainly Mars, the framerate will not go higher than 80. I tried setting everything to low and it would still not go any higher than 80.

RAM speed is also a possibility if none of the cores are saturated, is it Single channel or Dual channel? and at what speed?

Quote or Tag people so they know that you've replied.

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7 minutes ago, _Syn_ said:

RAM speed is also a possibility if none of the cores are saturated, is it Single channel or Dual channel? and at what speed?

For Intel systems, RAM speed largely doesn't matter: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-8700k-coffee-lake-memory-performance-benchmark-analysis/9.html

 

EDIT: Except in specific games, but I also don't expect Destiny 2 to be part of that.

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2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

RAM speed does matter in some scenarios when a game is memory intensive, I don't know Destiny 2 so that's why I said it's a possibility, but Single/Dual will always matter no matter which platform you're on

Quote or Tag people so they know that you've replied.

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To answer a couple question, I have 32gb of ram clocked at 3200. 

 

The game is indeed on an SSD, it is split from the OS, OS is on an m.2 ssd.

 

Both my CPU and GPU are capable of hitting 100% usage in a benchmark scenario and in some games, specifically Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2019.

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Sounds like a game issue. Unless the ssd is sharing lanes with the card and effecting it. Which I doubt it would be that extreme. 

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the 7700k definitely bottlenecks destiny 2 on 144hz

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If it does bottleneck it, how come none of the threads are even hitting 50% usage? My understanding is that a core should hit at least 50% usage and if you look at the threads of the core at least one of the threads should be at 100% usages for it to be a bottleneck. But if a single thread isn't even hitting 50% and cores are sitting around 30% usage. What's the bottleneck?

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If the game uses only say 2 threads, that's only 2 of 8 logical processors = 25%.

15 minutes ago, Nyhmz said:

My understanding is that a core should hit at least 50% usage

It's not how it works, a thread doesn't just stay on one core and use it at 100% while leaving the others at 0, it constantly gets shuffled between all of them, showing low usage on all of them. 

 

Well technically it does use one core at 100% while leaving the others at 0, only that it does it for a few milliseconds before the whole allocation gets shuffled. Task manager shows you averages.

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12 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

If the game uses only say 2 threads, that's only 2 of 8 logical processors = 25%.

It's not how it works, a thread doesn't just stay on one core and use it at 100% while leaving the others at 0, it constantly gets shuffled between all of them, showing low usage on all of them. 

 

Well technically it does use one core at 100% while leaving the others at 0, only that it does it for a few milliseconds before the whole allocation gets shuffled. Task manager shows you averages.

I would at least expect to see some form is high usage on a few threads. In fact this does happen in a benchmark, but in some games the usage doesn't get high at all yet the framerate is very low.

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1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

For Intel systems, RAM speed largely doesn't matter:

Memory speeds matter a lot specially on a quadcore processor.

 

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I have done extensive testing on the matter and Dual Channel + higher frequencies up to 3200~3600 with the right timings can always improve your fps, mainly your 1% and 0.1% substantially.

 

I tried not longer ago with my i7 8700 with 2133mhz memory vs 3333mhz memory to see around 10 more fps on average and improvements around 15fps on 1% on Deus Ex Mandkind Divided which I remember from head,.

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7 hours ago, Kilrah said:

If the game uses only say 2 threads, that's only 2 of 8 logical processors = 25%.

It's not how it works, a thread doesn't just stay on one core and use it at 100% while leaving the others at 0, it constantly gets shuffled between all of them, showing low usage on all of them. 

 

Well technically it does use one core at 100% while leaving the others at 0, only that it does it for a few milliseconds before the whole allocation gets shuffled. Task manager shows you averages.

Actually some games do exactly that, saturate 1 or 2 cores while leaving the others completely alone... 

 

And no one (hopefully) uses task manager to seriously monitor this stuff lol.

 

 

I compared hwmonitor with what CPU/GPU Z says and it's like 99% identical which is why I'm using that as it's way more conclusive and easier to read. 

 

Also MSI Afterburner is great, except CPU, at least Ryzen CPUs,  it doesn't read their frequencies correctly at all,  probably needs updating. 

Usage seems to be about right though.

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