The best CPU for Audio production.

[Offbeat Trance]

10 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

This is a real load of misinformation.

Oh really!!!

[Big Mixerz]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:08 PM, SomeGermanGuy said:

You dont need a high end cpu (or gpu for that matter) for audio production.
I would rather recommend something like a R5 3600 and use the saved money to buy a good external DAC and good speakers/ Headphones.
Im not an Audio expert so please get a second oppinion on this matter before deciding.

You must not produce music... 

[Big Mixerz]

On 11/22/2019 at 1:03 PM, Blatcher2 said:

I'm not in the audio industry but I 100% agree. Everyone I've seen who is works with audio professionally uses a Mac. That being said, there are those that use PCs.

 

I also wouldn't count on Zen 3 not appearing on AM4. You seem a little too confident based on what AMD has said on the matter and considering there promise to support AM4 through 2020:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-4000-rumors-news-specs-features-price-release-date/

for $2500.00 i can build a better pc for audio than a $6000.00 base model Mac Pro 

[The Flying Sloth]

1 hour ago, Big Mixerz said:

for $2500.00 i can build a better pc for audio than a $6000.00 base model Mac Pro 

The reason Mac's are so common in pro studios is really simple, IOS handles audio better than Windows does. The OS has less latency and has support for useful things like conglomerate audio devices (using multiple interfaces at one time). For sure you can build a PC better suited for audio production for less than the Mac Pro but unless you go the hackintosh route it just won't have those benefits. And this is coming from someone who absolutely despises Apple.

 

On Windows your buffer size (and thus audio latency) in your ASIO drivers is entirely controlled by your CPU and what CPU is best is dependent on what you're going to be doing with it (loading tracks with high-intensity plugins or just plain track by track recording) but generally more cores is more better and so is more clock speed. If you're on Logic you're on Apple and you have no choice though because of the ecosystem it is allowed to utilise every last scrap of whatever pitiful CPU Apple gave you and it runs damn good. FL Studio has great multi-core implementation as do most other DAWS so if you're loading up tracks with iZotope or other intensive plugins / instruments from Kontakt or heavy electronic production you should get the highest core count you can with the best clock rate and that will probably lead you to the R7 or R9 line from AMD. Reaper probably has the lowest overhead of any consumer DAW and it runs great on just about anything, when you start loading up plugins it will benefit from the same things FL does, more cores and more speed though the DAW is more geared towards live recording like Protools it sucks less by virtue of it not crashing every half hour and supporting common plugin formats. Because of this you're likely not going to use anywhere near as much CPU as an electronic producer in FL might. Ableton and Protools are both considered industry standard but Ableton is like a worse FL and Protools is like a worse Reaper IMHO. Ableton doesn't support 32 bit VSTs and Protools doesn't support any so unless you're working with hardware effects or really need a feature in one of the two don't bother. Ableton is quite common for electronic production but the piano roll suck absolute donkey doodoo so I usually program MIDI in FL and export it to Ableton if I'm forced to use it for a project.

 

In short, if you're using intensive plugins of course you need a damn good CPU and that just means as many cores with the highest clock speeds you can. Value for money that's going to be AMD so just get the biggest number you can afford. If you're doing acoustic work without lots of plugins an x600 CPU will be just fine.

[rice guru]

7 hours ago, Big Mixerz said:

You must not produce music... 

well these days with higher core counts for cheap yeah your really dont need a high end CPU. investing more into RAM, mixers, mics,room treatment , monitors ,software and Synths instead will go a longer way than the extra cores. 

[The Flying Sloth]

34 minutes ago, rice guru said:

well these days with higher core counts for cheap yeah your really dont need a high end CPU. investing more into RAM, mixers, mics,room treatment , monitors ,software and Synths instead will go a longer way than the extra cores. 

But you can't record or produce effectively with constant audio stuttering or massive latency no matter the acoustic treatment, microphones or RAM. There's a level at which there are diminishing returns, for sure, but a decent CPU is a prerequisite for any level of effective production, especially if you're using taxing plugins.

"But Sloth," I hear you say, "Why don't you just freeze tracks so they don't hurt your CPU so much?" Well, that's a brilliant question. Truthful answer is that most people starting out either don't know that feature exists or are used to working with a DAW that previously didn't have that feature easily accessible, besides, freezing isn't an effective option while still actively working on a track where you want to continue to tweak plugins or automation tracks.

[kasugatei]

Let me add something on AMD vs Intel. Basically probably 99% of the VST plugins today are compiled on MinGW or Visual C++ compiler. Anything compiled with any of those two will work good on both platforms. However, although not that common in the audio production more in video codecs, some of them will be compiled with Intel decoder. Having that in mind at my company I've done some tests on dual CPU 14 core Xeons and single 64 core AMD Epyc in video decoding and Intels blew AMD out of the water just because of the Intel compiler being used in the provided decoder libraries. 

Fortunately Intel compiler is not that common because it is AFAIK expensive.

 

And also, I agree, CPU matters because every loaded VST requires some extra CPU cycles, some more some less. IMHO paying extra for those super overclockable CPUs for use in audio production is probably waste of money.

[Lord Vile]

23 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

The reason Mac's are so common in pro studios is really simple, IOS handles audio better than Windows does. The OS has less latency and has support for useful things like conglomerate audio devices (using multiple interfaces at one time). For sure you can build a PC better suited for audio production for less than the Mac Pro but unless you go the hackintosh route it just won't have those benefits. And this is coming from someone who absolutely despises Apple.

 

On Windows your buffer size (and thus audio latency) in your ASIO drivers is entirely controlled by your CPU and what CPU is best is dependent on what you're going to be doing with it (loading tracks with high-intensity plugins or just plain track by track recording) but generally more cores is more better and so is more clock speed. If you're on Logic you're on Apple and you have no choice though because of the ecosystem it is allowed to utilise every last scrap of whatever pitiful CPU Apple gave you and it runs damn good. FL Studio has great multi-core implementation as do most other DAWS so if you're loading up tracks with iZotope or other intensive plugins / instruments from Kontakt or heavy electronic production you should get the highest core count you can with the best clock rate and that will probably lead you to the R7 or R9 line from AMD. Reaper probably has the lowest overhead of any consumer DAW and it runs great on just about anything, when you start loading up plugins it will benefit from the same things FL does, more cores and more speed though the DAW is more geared towards live recording like Protools it sucks less by virtue of it not crashing every half hour and supporting common plugin formats. Because of this you're likely not going to use anywhere near as much CPU as an electronic producer in FL might. Ableton and Protools are both considered industry standard but Ableton is like a worse FL and Protools is like a worse Reaper IMHO. Ableton doesn't support 32 bit VSTs and Protools doesn't support any so unless you're working with hardware effects or really need a feature in one of the two don't bother. Ableton is quite common for electronic production but the piano roll suck absolute donkey doodoo so I usually program MIDI in FL and export it to Ableton if I'm forced to use it for a project.

 

In short, if you're using intensive plugins of course you need a damn good CPU and that just means as many cores with the highest clock speeds you can. Value for money that's going to be AMD so just get the biggest number you can afford. If you're doing acoustic work without lots of plugins an x600 CPU will be just fine.

MacOS also as Logic which is a massive plus and why most music production involves Macs. I mean why just use Ableton and Protools when you can have both and Logic on a Mac! 

[The Flying Sloth]

14 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

MacOS also as Logic which is a massive plus and why most music production involves Macs. I mean why just use Ableton and Protools when you can have both and Logic on a Mac! 

Logic is one reason, yes, but certainly not one of the main reasons.
In reality the lower overhead of the Linux based MACOS and the audio framework built from the ground up to just be better, allowing multiple interfaces to run at once is the major reason, so that studios don't ever have to worry about expanding/ changing interface options and the higher latency that ASIO on Windows offers (relative to processor power).

The more important question here is "why just use Ableton and Protools[?]" because in reality Ableton offers nothing (except Max but that's different) that FL doesn't while having a far inferior piano roll, not supporting 32bit plugins and having stock plugins that are just underwhelming, ProTools does nothing Reaper can't besides crash every half hour for no reason and not supporting VST plugins at all...

Like I said earlier:

14 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

If you're on Logic you're on Apple and you have no choice though because of the ecosystem it is allowed to utilise every last scrap of whatever pitiful CPU Apple gave you and it runs damn good.

First of all fxck Apple for exclusivity, exclusivity sucks and the Apple ecosystem is a masterclass in making money from exclusivity alone.
In reality I'll continue to take (as will most other small-time producers) the lower hardware cost, choice in hardware and modification capabilities of Windows any day over the aggregate devices and Logic of MACOS because really that's all they offer that makes them better suited for production. Lightpipe IO is so cheap these days that it doesn't make sense for me to spend so much more on a MAC to be able to link together smaller interfaces when the RME Digiface USB and other similar options are available. Besides, file management in WIndows is a tonne better than MAC and when you're working with hundreds of gigabytes of samples and Kontakt libraries it's a big deal for me to be able to access them easily (same with preset folders and VST locations).

[Lord Vile]

13 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Logic is one reason, yes, but certainly not one of the main reasons.
In reality the lower overhead of the Linux based MACOS and the audio framework built from the ground up to just be better, allowing multiple interfaces to run at once is the major reason, so that studios don't ever have to worry about expanding/ changing interface options and the higher latency that ASIO on Windows offers (relative to processor power).

The more important question here is "why just use Ableton and Protools[?]" because in reality Ableton offers nothing (except Max but that's different) that FL doesn't while having a far inferior piano roll, not supporting 32bit plugins and having stock plugins that are just underwhelming, ProTools does nothing Reaper can't besides crash every half hour for no reason and not supporting VST plugins at all...

Like I said earlier:

First of all fxck Apple for exclusivity, exclusivity sucks and the Apple ecosystem is a masterclass in making money from exclusivity alone.
In reality I'll continue to take (as will most other small-time producers) the lower hardware cost, choice in hardware and modification capabilities of Windows any day over the aggregate devices and Logic of MACOS because really that's all they offer that makes them better suited for production. Lightpipe IO is so cheap these days that it doesn't make sense for me to spend so much more on a MAC to be able to link together smaller interfaces when the RME Digiface USB and other similar options are available. Besides, file management in WIndows is a tonne better than MAC and when you're working with hundreds of gigabytes of samples and Kontakt libraries it's a big deal for me to be able to access them easily (same with preset folders and VST locations).

If you make good software you choose where to put it, it’s how you get people to invest in a platform. 
 

Personally use file management differently on Windows and Mac, on Mac it’s just cmd space to bring up spotlight whereas the search functionality on windows is so bad you spend less time manually sifting through likely folders than it takes for windows to find what you’re actually looking for. 

[Derkoli]

3 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

ProTools does nothing Reaper can't besides crash every half hour for no reason

Avid Pro Tools has gotten better with issues like crashing. It's my preferred software for a few reasons, mostly just because it's amazing for really complex stuff and the Cloud Collaboration features are extremely nice to have, especially during the current situation.

 

There is ways to make Pro Tools interact with VST plugins, but it's pretty annoying and requires a few other programs.

[The Flying Sloth]

3 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Avid Pro Tools has gotten better with issues like crashing. It's my preferred software for a few reasons, mostly just because it's amazing for really complex stuff and the Cloud Collaboration features are extremely nice to have, especially during the current situation.

 

There is ways to make Pro Tools interact with VST plugins, but it's pretty annoying and requires a few other programs.

I'll admit there was a tad bit of embellishment in that statement but my (recent) experience with ProTools just hasn't  been anywhere near as positive as my time with Reaper. I either own or have unrestricted access to both softwares as well as most other consumer DAW softwares and from my experience ProTools was the absolute least stable of the lot (though perhaps not the outright worst). Of course you can make VST plugins work with ProTools in the same way you can make .exe programs run on mac, it's not officially supported and it comes with its own set of limitations and bugs but it is available if you really want to put the time into trying to get it working.

I'd recommend you have a play around with Reaper, i mean, it's free so you've got nothing to lose. Cloud Collaboration notwithstanding it has done everything I ask ProTools for without the horrible UI Avid software is so well known for (refer to Sibelius ribbons) and with intuitiveness, compatibility and far greater stability than I've ever experienced with ProTools.

[Derkoli]

1 minute ago, The Flying Sloth said:

I'll admit there was a tad bit of embellishment in that statement but my (recent) experience with ProTools just hasn't  been anywhere near as positive as my time with Reaper. I either own or have unrestricted access to both softwares as well as most other consumer DAW softwares and from my experience ProTools was the absolute least stable of the lot (though perhaps not the outright worst). Of course you can make VST plugins work with ProTools in the same way you can make .exe programs run on mac, it's not officially supported and it comes with its own set of limitations and bugs but it is available if you really want to put the time into trying to get it working.

I'd recommend you have a play around with Reaper, i mean, it's free so you've got nothing to lose. Cloud Collaboration notwithstanding it has done everything I ask ProTools for without the horrible UI Avid software is so well known for (refer to Sibelius ribbons) and with intuitiveness, compatibility and far greater stability than I've ever experienced with ProTools.

Honestly, the main reason I prefer it over some other DAW options is because it's mostly what I learnt to use when getting into actually producing music.

 

I've given some other options a go, but I've felt more comfortable on Pro Tool's thus far.

 

I'll have a look at Reaper when I have some free time, probably after lockdown when I'm allowed to have employees back at work, and not working remotely.

[The Flying Sloth]

17 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Honestly, the main reason I prefer it over some other DAW options is because it's mostly what I learnt to use when getting into actually producing music.

Conversely, I was playing with FL before I had any (useless) formal music education, in which I was forced to use both Ableton and ProTools. I think that might be the reason it's still an 'industry standard', because it's an 'industry standard' it's taught to students so they can continue to use it as a standard when they eventually enter the workplace. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

More and more producers I know (or know of) are slowly moving away from it, Glenn Fricker (though I disagree with him on some most topics), Wytse Gerichhausen and other Youtube personality producers moreso than the rest of the industry but it's certainly been interesting to see happen, heck, there's even a theme for Reaper to make it look just like ProTools so the transition is easier. When you get the time have a try, I don't think you'll regret it.

[kasugatei]

2 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Glenn Fricker

The angry Canadian. 
Bit off topic to this tread:

I watched some of his videos and there are two things that constantly repeats and I can’t agree more:

1. Fixing mediocre performances in post production and making everything overproduced (“perfect”) is one big BS. 
 

2. Workings with musicians can be huge PITA. I’ve experienced that in the past. Back in the day I was considering stopping pursuing my engineering degree in order to pursue degree in audio production. I am glad that stupid 20yo me was smart enough not to do that mistake. Nothing wrong with audio production, by itself it is a great profession, but people you have to work with makes it just not for me. I have my zen and inner peace at my lab at the current company where I don’t have to deal with people who will pay me in “exposure” or who are in complete denial about their music skills. 

[The Flying Sloth]

6 minutes ago, Niksa said:

-snip-

I almost completely agree with him on those two points and I find most of his content quite interesting.
What gets to me me moreso is his stubbornness and inability to admit when he's wrong, like, he tested the BM/NW 800 (electret Ebay trash tier microphone) backwards and refused to admit that the reason it sounded so god-awful was that he had it backwards, he constantly recommends computers by Slick Audio and actively attacks people for trying to inform him and his viewers that in reality they are just another overpriced Clevo or NUC rebadge though he claims they're some kind of revolutionary option. When warned of some of the possible drawbacks of cheap 500 series gear by members of another audio forum (you know the one) he immediately started badmouthing the entire forum because he disagreed, even though he trash talked cheap 500 series gear in the same video because he was paid to promote a more expensive option.

He's a fun watch and I'm sure he's a really down-to-earth guy but it's not the kind of personality I'd enjoy working with professionally.

[kasugatei]

4 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Snip

Yes, I completely agree on that point. 
 

I also watched one episode where he was talking about ditching his DW drums because they don’t want to work with him. Similar thing happened several times. 
If I were drummer I would like to record on DW or on the similar quality instrument like Masters series from Pearl, SQ series from Sonor, Starclassic series from Tama, Recording custom from Yamaha or similar.

 

Sometimes he behaves like instagram “influencer” when it comes to gear recommendations because some makers refused “cooperation”. 

[The Flying Sloth]

4 minutes ago, Niksa said:

-Snip-

I agree, he acts like an angry child sometimes and that doesn't sit right with me.

I'm not going to lie, I'm no expert on micing drum kits but I've found heads and mic choice/placement far more important than the shells for achieving good tone on a drum kit.
The kits I've recorded most are the low end Pearl Roadshow and Export kits and honestly, with good heads, a decent player and nice mics (57, MD421, D112 and dark condensers OH) I've not been too disappointed. Of course an expensive kit would sound better but for the very little time that I spend recording kits it's not worth it to me to get that much better shells. But for him, a professional metal recording engineer, kits are SOOOO IMPORTANT and to throw away a potential professional relationship with a manufacturer of the caliber of DW, let alone refusing to use their products, I mean, get over yourself.

[kasugatei]

2 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

he constantly recommends computers by Slick Audio

I don't have experience with them, but let me comment this.

First and foremost, I would not buy overpriced Clevo as you said for personal use. Similarly, I would also not buy eg. HP desktop for personal use, I will always build my own. If Slick Audio offers support like big players as HP, Dell etc. for their business product, it is worth the price for someone who depends on those devices. Eg. I can get new server tomorrow if one dies at client's location. If they offer similar service then it is worth extra $$, But let's be honest, maybe 100 (I am pretty generous here) of his subscribers require that kind of service so it is simply not worth it.

 

And to comment regarding cheap drums, yes, better heads will make a difference, however in majority of the cases you can't tune cheap drums low like high end ones. Also, you want bearing edge to be as uniform as possible which is very labor intensive to have the best tuning stability as well as head projection onto the shell. 

 

Going too much int offtopic now