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Audio Recorder (for VIdeo Making)

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Sry I am in stress I must catch a Train soon...
I am looking for an Standalone Audio Recorder to record Audio for me upcomming Video Project.

What I want:

1) Dual Record to 2 (Micro) SD Cards

2) Sound for a later 5.1 or better 7.1 Sound (when neccecary)

3) separate Audio Channel in a Talk Group, Interview for everyone to cut when some sneeze, drink or what ever Sound the make unintentionally

 

What someone  from Youtube Recommended was:
https://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-680mkii.html

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/f8n-multitrack-field-recorder

 

I want to record Audio in a Loud environment and need a device who have some internal Gain, Level Control to put the input audio level down for example when a train is passing by.

Does anyone know similar, better one who are max ~1000€? Or even own one of them?

Thanks


From AT. :x

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I know Linus uses the Mixpre from Sound Devices.  Seems like they have a lot of products for sale that are like what you want... but they also appear to be a bit less budget friendly.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

oh yes I forgotten about!

In the Youtube Video I watched the also say the use this: https://www.sounddevices.com/product/mixpre-6-ii/

 

Does I understand right when I want use Wireless I "just" buy some "external" Transmission Device like the in Europe often used Sennheiser one and plug them in the with XLR (?!) Plugs?

In my Training who I still Visit from the "Community TV Channel" the told us we should use 2 Mics one on each side of the Cloth so when one scratch or the rub somewhere we can use the other Audio Channel, Mic. Is this a common practise?


From AT. :x

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Two mics is not necessary, but as you say it’s a good backup.  I don’t know about the specific wireless system you’re mentioning, but generally speaking you need a camera that can use internal or external timecode if you want the audio to sync with video frames directly.  Either a wireless receiver must be connected to the MixPre via a port such as XLR, or a microphone directly.  The MixPre should also be connected to the camera.  That model supports 32-bit float, and LTC generation, so you wouldn’t need a separate device for timecode.  32 bit float allows for insanely high dynamic range, which is good for that train problem.


Need help deciding on building computer?  Message me, I can help decide on parts.  

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9 hours ago, Required said:

Sry I am in stress I must catch a Train soon...
I am looking for an Standalone Audio Recorder to record Audio for me upcomming Video Project.

What I want:

1) Dual Record to 2 (Micro) SD Cards

2) Sound for a later 5.1 or better 7.1 Sound (when neccecary)

3) separate Audio Channel in a Talk Group, Interview for everyone to cut when some sneeze, drink or what ever Sound the make unintentionally

 

What someone  from Youtube Recommended was:
https://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-680mkii.html

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/f8n-multitrack-field-recorder

 

I want to record Audio in a Loud environment and need a device who have some internal Gain, Level Control to put the input audio level down for example when a train is passing by.

Does anyone know similar, better one who are max ~1000€? Or even own one of them?

Thanks

Zoom F4, F8 recorders have dual memory card slots.

MixPre has 1 card slot with USB connection to record to external usb key/drive for backup.

 

Sound for a later 5.1 or better 7.1 Sound (when neccecary)

you need to learn quite a bit about sound engineering to know how to record audio for surround sound.  and have many different types of mics and how to set up microphones for different stereo setups.

 

 

I want to record Audio in a Loud environment and need a device who have some internal Gain, Level Control to put the input audio level down for example when a train is passing by.

Some of the background noise can be reduced by using specialized microphones like laveliar or super directional focused shotgun or omni mic capsule vs cardioid capsule and others.  but always better to really film in quiet location and add background noises in post mixing.

 

I own both F8 and MixPre 10 as well has larger audio recorders and mixers.  F8 and MixPre are both good, for their purpose.

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7 hours ago, Required said:

oh yes I forgotten about!

In the Youtube Video I watched the also say the use this: https://www.sounddevices.com/product/mixpre-6-ii/

 

Does I understand right when I want use Wireless I "just" buy some "external" Transmission Device like the in Europe often used Sennheiser one and plug them in the with XLR (?!) Plugs?

In my Training who I still Visit from the "Community TV Channel" the told us we should use 2 Mics one on each side of the Cloth so when one scratch or the rub somewhere we can use the other Audio Channel, Mic. Is this a common practise?

two or more microphones are common practice, in case a microphone breaks or fails during recording or even to have backup audio in case of unwatned background noise.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 11/21/2019 at 2:14 PM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

two or more microphones are common practice, in case a microphone breaks or fails during recording or even to have backup audio in case of unwatned background noise.

I didnt research good enought are there any Transmitter, Reciver on t he Marked who support a Dual Mic Setup?
And the Sennheiser Page sucks a lot!

On 11/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

you need to learn quite a bit about sound engineering to know how to record audio for surround sound.  and have many different types of mics and how to set up microphones for different stereo setups.

There is this Mic: https://de-at.sennheiser.com/mikrofon-3d-audio-ambeo-vr-mic (sorry its in German) who should support it.

And there is a (€€€, $$$) Plugin for: https://store.sounddevices.com/product/ambisonics-plugin/ the MixPre.

 

The major Question is can I record from the not used Audio Input ports together with the 360" Mic?

For example on a Conference 2 Wireless Mic + the 360" Mic together?

 

On 11/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

Some of the background noise

Well I want to record the Train who passing by.

On 11/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

but always better to really film in quiet location and add background noises in post mixing.

Well when I film the Passenger or Cargo Train who will passing by I need to record the Audio for that since  every Train, Station,.. have there unique sound who cant be reproduced. Since I want to make Videos for the Railway Fans the will know immediately that the Sound dont fit into with the Cars.

On 11/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

F8 and MixPre are both good, for their purpose.

I dont know with one but attleast one have 2 ADC with 2 different Gain levels to boost low noise Audio and prevent hight noise Audio from clipping.

I  guess that are perfect when I want to record Public Transport. The noise produced by Cargo Train Cars are insane.

On 11/21/2019 at 1:41 PM, bobdabiulder said:

Two mics is not necessary, but as you say it’s a good backup.

The problem will be what should I do when I am just a Guest somewhere and cant Disturb when one Mic have a problem.

On 11/21/2019 at 1:41 PM, bobdabiulder said:

you need a camera that can use internal or external timecode if you want the audio to sync with video frames directly.

The Pocked 4k should could to it so the  6k could do  it hopefully to.

On 11/21/2019 at 1:41 PM, bobdabiulder said:

32 bit float allows for insanely high dynamic range, which is good for that train problem.

Some people on Youtube sayed the Blackmagic Software dont support 32bit  Audio Clips. So maybe I must process them first (like level it) and than put them with the Video together?!


From AT. :x

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On 11/25/2019 at 8:55 PM, Required said:

 

the senneheiser ambeo mic can be a good mic for capturing surround sound. i don';t have it but will be borrowing it from a friend who has it to do some tests next week.

i dont see why you can't record audio from ambeo mic and other mics at the same time in the recorder if it has enough channels

for wireless mics some of the best are made by lectrosonics but sennheiser and sony wireless microphone systems are also very popular. there are some wireless mic systems  with dual channel receivers

you don't necessarily need to use the timecode to sync audio and video in camera or in post but using a cable between camera and recorder to sync the timecode can make life easy. many times I just make a loud clap in front of the camera and mic to create a marker point I can use to sync video and audio clips in the editor.

 

on recorders like the Zoom F8 and SD Mixpre you can set the input gain of each individual channel so you can set the gain to be low for mics that are going to record ambient sound if the ambient noise is loud and high gain on mics that are clipped on people who are talking. you can also record the voice over in a soundbooth or quiet location and combine with ambient audio in post.

 

you have a budget of 1000 euros which is just for the recorder, do you have money for the microphones and cameras?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
17 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

you have a budget of 1000 euros

well I have ammount X€ per Month who I can spend. The point is when I buy something who dont fit my needs what should I do with that Product? Lets say you want to move some Rocks around and see  the cheap Smart. Well you can buy them but do the fit your need?

20 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

which is just for the recorder

sad I know...

20 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

do you have money for the microphones and cameras?

Well when I save some yes. But sadly there is no alternative for.

21 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

will be borrowing it from a friend who has it to do some tests next week.

nice which Recorder do you have?

25 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

i dont see why you can't record audio from ambeo mic and other mics at the same time in the recorder if it has enough channels

the most recorder have a dedicated Software for that Souroundsound onboard. So maybe to  allow only  to record that 4 Inputs and no other Channels to?!

26 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

for wireless mics some of the best are made by lectrosonics but sennheiser and sony wireless microphone systems are also very popular.

Who have some digital? Sennheiser dont have Digital for Handhelt - Recorder Bag. Is there any who act like a Radio for Instructions?

29 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

on recorders like the Zoom F8 and SD Mixpre you can set the input gain of each individual channel

Well I know. The F6 look good for me:  https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/f6-multitrack-field-recorder because the have this dual Converter inside one for Loude Sound an the  other for Silent  Sounds. Perfect on a Railway Station. When Trains passing by every Minute.

I did a Comparission for  my self and still copy everything into the XLS File but t he F6 is a big favorite for me right now.


From AT. :x

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On 11/27/2019 at 1:29 AM, Required said:

well I have ammount X€ per Month who I can spend. The point is when I buy something who dont fit my needs what should I do with that Product? Lets say you want to move some Rocks around and see  the cheap Smart. Well you can buy them but do the fit your need?

sad I know...

Well when I save some yes. But sadly there is no alternative for.

nice which Recorder do you have?

the most recorder have a dedicated Software for that Souroundsound onboard. So maybe to  allow only  to record that 4 Inputs and no other Channels to?!

Who have some digital? Sennheiser dont have Digital for Handhelt - Recorder Bag. Is there any who act like a Radio for Instructions?

Well I know. The F6 look good for me:  https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/f6-multitrack-field-recorder because the have this dual Converter inside one for Loude Sound an the  other for Silent  Sounds. Perfect on a Railway Station. When Trains passing by every Minute.

I did a Comparission for  my self and still copy everything into the XLS File but t he F6 is a big favorite for me right now.

I have zoom F8 (first gen, not new F8n), and MixPre 10 mark 1.

Sennheiser has digital wireless system too, look at sennheiser AVX.  I also have this system but i prefer the G3/G4 system because you can manually set the levels.  the AVX has some built in automatic audio gain/level control that is not always user friendly

The zoom f6 is also a good recorder but for the places you go to record maybe the sound devices mixpre mark II models will be better.  they are more capable than zoom recorders.

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On 11/27/2019 at 1:29 AM, Required said:

 

i have borrowed the Sennheiser Ambeo VR mic from friend, however my F8 and MixPre 10 mark I are still being used on location so can not test with them yet.  at my studio i tested the microphone with a focusrite interface connected to computer and adobe audition.  because the Ambeo mic has small mic capsules you need to set the gain on the recorder to be high if you want to record sound from some distance so the sound devices mixpre II (model 10 or 6) recorders i think are better choice than the zoom.  i also know rode makes a mic similar to ambeo, rode NT-SF1 and it costs less.

i will do more tests later with my F8 and Mixpre are free, but the ambeo mic can be used to capture surround sound for at least some portions of a 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound mix.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Maybe you can go to a Street, Airport or even a Railway Line and see if you can "track" some Heavy Vehickel who produce a lot of noise.


From AT. :x

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22 hours ago, Required said:

Maybe you can go to a Street, Airport or even a Railway Line and see if you can "track" some Heavy Vehickel who produce a lot of noise.

heres my finds using the sennheiser ambeo mic with Mixpre 10 ii ( I borrow from a friend who just purchased one) and installing ambisonic plugin for sound devices

1. with ambisonic plugin activated you can only record at maximum 24 bit 192khz or lower, 32 bit float is disabled

 

2. i don't know whether ambisonic plugin for sound devices is worth it because I am monitoring the recording on a stereo headphone, maybe if i were using headphones with surround sound it could be different.  even with stereo headphones i do get the sense of sound being surround, not just left and right.

 

3. both Rode and Sennheiser makes plugins that work with software like Adobe Audition for ambisonic processing, but again maybe this plugin is not necessary

 

4. files recorded with ambisonic plugin turned on in mixpre seem no different than multitrack files without ambisonic plugin activated.  i don;t see differences from if I connect ambeo mic to computer with audio interface (e.g. focusrite 18i8) and either do multitrack or 5.1 channel audio recording in adobe audition.

 

5. mix pre 10 comes with 8 xlr inputs, with ambisonic plugin activated input 1-4 is used for ambeo microphone, so you can still add other mics for input 5-8

 

 

i don't think having ambeo vr mic is neccessary to capture surround sound, the same can be done with 4 individual microphones if you carefully mark each microphone as front left, front right, rear left, rear right positions and use the same setup every time.  the ambeo vr or rode nt-sf 1 mics provide convenience because it has 4 mics inside one single unit.

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