Electroconvulsive therapy right into your brain - Elon claims BCI can solve Autism

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Did you not see the recent news about them having prosthetics with the sense of touch? This isn't something simple like you make it out to be. Also being exceptional at one particular thing is still brilliant in my mind. 

Where do they put the leads?  There are very few places on the skull that don’t have muscles on them, and none of them are anywhere near the face, chin, or neck

 

they've been trying internal leads for 30 years. Wires finer than hair.  They last for a couple weeks maybe before burning out the surrounding tissue.  There are paraplegics that keep trying though and have many hundreds of surgically implanted wires in their muscles.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Bombastinator
Addendum

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

Understanding women to me is like trying to read the texture of a brick: it's nigh impossible. It's why I'm gay: I understand men better. Yeah, not everyone with autism are like this (as a matter of fact, I dunno if there's any real correlation), but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link between autism and not being able to read certain people.

Tried gay.  I’m not.  Doesn’t work.  

[amdorintel]

15 hours ago, floofer said:

Great news that Neurallink can solve Autism, I wonder what other cases Epstein didn't kill himself it can solve #LookIntoIt. 

no one cares that he was murdered

 

dont bother looking into it

 

now lets solve more health related problemos amigo

 

go elon go elon go elon

[Brooksie359]

34 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

Understanding women to me is like trying to read the texture of a brick: it's nigh impossible. It's why I'm gay: I understand men better. Yeah, not everyone with autism are like this (as a matter of fact, I dunno if there's any real correlation), but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link between autism and not being able to read certain people.

I mean that is sorta a common thing with autism. Then again I feel like alot of normal guys have trouble reading women because they are alot more nonverbal in nature and men typically have worse communication skills when it comes to nonverbal. Men are typically more straightforward so it would make sense that you would understand them better even if you were not autistic. 

[CarlBar]

1 hour ago, comander said:

Beyond that my girlfriend looked up a guide on handling people with Aspergers and was like "WOW I FOUND AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR YOU." She said everything got way easier after that. 

 

 Sorry but this really tickled me.

 

Thats said anyone who's been diagnosed late is probably very familiar with this feeling. Your this weird idiocentric mess and then suddenly someone starts talking about how people on the spectrum can do this, that or the other and suddenly it's like the biggest light bulb ever.

 

It's also very important to understand that which of the symptoms of the condition manifest varies enormously from person to person, pretty much every case is unique to the individual to some degree or other. Some things i do other's on the spectrum won't, and vice versa.

 

It's also quite common for people with ASD to feel they  have great difficulty communicating with others, (and even to actually experiance said difficulty), yet come off as exceptionally intelligent, articulate, and well spoken to others. The worst part of communication is when someone asks you to explain your difficulties, the very fact that you have difficulties makes explaining it very hard. It tends to be all the really subtle stuff for me personally, tiny little things that get understood differently by me compared to other people, but it;s no simple fixed set of things, if it was i could have taken conscious steps a long time ago.

 

I'm also an extremly odd duck case in that i find social situations very difficult, (for several different ASD related reasons), but once you get me out of my shell i tend to be very extroverted. I enjoy talking at length but don't have a lot of confidence to actually get into social situations and a times that very tendency to talk at length can almost be a defensive mechanism to keep "things", (for lack of a better word), at a safe distance.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I have experienced none of this “free ride” stuff you mention myself.  At least not in any orginizational way.  I was born earlier though. The only free ride I remember getting for being socially awkward was a flying wedgie in middle school.  There were also some beatings.  Getting your ribs broken isn’t nearly as painful as it sounds.  Green stick fractures really suck though.

 

the social cues thing seems to be associated with noise cancelation and organization.  Problems with background noise such as elevator music are common.  People give off cues constantly.  Much of it is noise.  Being able to pick out the important bits and react to them automatically is something a lot of humans do without even conscious knowledge of it.  An autistic person often has trouble doing that even consciously, and the mere presence of It can be overwhelming.  Myself I am “face blind”. People often look similar to me that do not look similar to others.  I can often tell an expression is there but not what it means.  I have been present for whole conversations that took place in my presence without me understanding any of it because there were no words.  It was entirely non verbal.

 

i have never been married.  Women in general want little to do with me.  My stepmother once complained that I shouldn’t have to be told what her opinion on something was.  I should just know.  I was at a total loss.  How could I “know” something she didn’t tell me.  It’s like living in a world where everyone is telepathic but you.  When I was in my teens I made the mistake of reading “the screw tape letters” and was left convinced I must have sold my soul to the devil as a child.  The description of a doomed soul was disturbingly similar to my life experience.

I felt like I was a Pinocchio.  Doomed to forever to never be a real boy.  I never did become one.

 I suppose I should be all for this stuff.

i got old though. There are dangers in the world that can be created by ones own actions.  Elon is not immune from that.  But he is richer, and can make bigger actions.  Much bigger than that which might only affect himself.  Care must be taken.

It's like you know my childhood.  only difference is I've been married twice (and I count my blessing both times).

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Just out of curiosity, is autism still considered a mental disorder in some places? 

Aspergers was folded into Autism Spectrum Disorder in the last DSM so, and if we're getting nitpicky, it is not a mental disorder that can be "cured" with a treatment, it's just something that requires people to recognize rather than assuming the person is incompetent or wrong-all-the-time. Just like someone who is blind or deaf, they can be completely functional, intelligent, and so forth, but that communication channel is impaired for them, and to people who don't know what it looks like, it's like speaking a foreign language.

 

Autism is also over-diagnosed by people looking for an excuse for why they're a sociopath or troll on the internet. Put it this way, the computer is a communication channel, and people with poor verbal or physical communication skills sometimes extremely over-compensate for it when they get their hands on a computer.

[Drak3]

3 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Understanding women to me is like trying to read the texture of a brick: it's nigh impossible.

It's not just you.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

 

Autism is also over-diagnosed by people looking for an excuse for why they're a sociopath or troll on the internet. Put it this way, the computer is a communication channel, and people with poor verbal or physical communication skills sometimes extremely over-compensate for it when they get their hands on a computer.

 

I get the distinct impression most people on forums are overcompensating for something.  

 

 

Also to those talking about not having any of the upsides or intelligence that goes with autism.  Don't be surprised if that feeling of being socially ostracized you get when you can't explain something or everyone is telling you you don't understand,  is because you actually do have a skill they don't.   Most people are only 2 dimensional thinkers.  Some Autistics can think in 3d, that is why they can be good scientists and good at parsing lots of information simultaneously.    Maybe you are just way a head of the average person considering what ever it is you understand that they are struggling to get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arika]

19 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I feel like most people talking about it either aren't a mental health professional, or they don't have autism to begin with

on the flip side of this, It seems more and more likely these days that people claim to have autism but never got diagnosed.

 

Hell i know someone who went to 5 different doctors who all told her she was not autistic, she refused to listen to them and self diagnosed herself with it anyway.

 

self diagnosis is one of my biggest annoyances in this day and age, people would rather read something on the internet than trust someone who had to go to school for many many years and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go through it. keeping in mind, this is in Australia, our medical system is much different.

[laminutederire]

11 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Well he is Elon musk.  You gotta expect some weird.  This one comes possibly dangerously close to hurting people though which is kind of a line IMHO.  I’m totally willing to smile and wave when he does something thing good for the world.  He’s probably trying to.  This one may not pan out though and people could get hurt.

Well I think it's a line he doesn't care to cross if he's not the one being hurt during experimentation...

I'm afraid he's mostly out there to make money at this point. Because anytime he said something was good for the world, it just ended up being smokes and mirrors. I mean, they still aren't even able to produce Tesla cars properly years after what they announced...

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

on the flip side of this, It seems more and more likely these days that people claim to have autism but never got diagnosed.

 

Hell i know someone who went to 5 different doctors who all told her she was not autistic, she refused to listen to them and self diagnosed herself with it anyway.

 

self diagnosis is one of my biggest annoyances in this day and age, people would rather read something on the internet than trust someone who had to go to school for many many years and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go through it. keeping in mind, this is in Australia, our medical system is much different.

 

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

I kinda know someone like that, but they also have a rather depressing past.   They do it because they like the attention.  I'd probably call them out on it if I didn't feel sorry for them.

 

I fit right in the middle of those two positions,  I have had long consultations with pediatricians (both my boys are autistic with official diagnosis), doctors and psychologists. Who all are in agreement I am definitely autistic, it's just a waste of resources to get an official diagnoses as it won't help or change anything.

[laminutederire]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 

I fit right in the middle of those two positions,  I have had long consultations with pediatricians (both my boys are autistic with official diagnosis), doctors and psychologists. Who all are in agreement I am definitely autistic, it's just a waste of resources to get an official diagnoses as it won't help or change anything.

It also depends what you do with it. If you auto diagnose yourself and use it to work on yourself and know yourself better or live certain situation better, then even if it's not completely true, it stills helps. (If you use that to get sympathy that's something else, but people "having" diseases to get sympathy will always find something to try and get it anyway.)

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

Well I think it's a line he doesn't care to cross if he's not the one being hurt during experimentation...

I'm afraid he's mostly out there to make money at this point. Because anytime he said something was good for the world, it just ended up being smokes and mirrors. I mean, they still aren't even able to produce Tesla cars properly years after what they announced...

Your fear: are you afraid that he is or are you saying that he is?  I would say that it is likely a primary goal. He is an entrepreneur after all.  Are you saying his interest is to make money at any cost?  
You say that any time he said something was good for the world it turned out to be smoke and mirrors.   What exactly are you referring to?  That the products are smoke and mirrors or that the positive world aspects of them are smoke and mirrors?

The products appear to be real.  Or at least mostly real.

The batteries work.  That has been shown.  The cars work.  That has been shown.  Spacex works.  That has been shown.  Amazingly well actually.  That one went far better than anyone expected.  The solar panel roofs? That one not so much so far.  The devices apparently work, though the rollout seems to be much slower than envisioned.  Only arguably a fail but let’s call it one for these purposes.  

Are you saying that he said these products would be good for the world but are in fact not?  It’s possible I suppose.   The cars apparently have something like half the carbon footprint of a gas vehicle.  I don’t know about the other stuff.

 

You use as example that they still aren’t able to produce cars properly.  They do seem to be able to produce cars.  They don’t seem to be able to make quite as many of them as he promised though.  He apparently promised 100,000 and he’s only produced 85,000 by the end of Q3.  Apparently he’s got to produce 10500 by the end of the year, but had only produced 9600 the previous quarter.  He seems to make projected quarterly goals less often than he should.  Not never, but less often.  I think it’s doubtful that he will make the final year end 100000 goal.  He likely over promised.  Not did, quite yet, but it’s real possible he won’t hit the magic number, quite. If that happens, The stock will take a hit.  I’m not sure that’s quite the same thing as “properly” though.  It implies the cars don’t work.  He does have seem to promise absolutely as much and sometimes more than he can deliver. He does seem to be vexing the short sellers. They apparently lost billions when the company turned a profit Q3.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Bombastinator
Sentence needed to be more in line with what I was trying to say

[Bombastinator]

59 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It also depends what you do with it. If you auto diagnose yourself and use it to work on yourself and know yourself better or live certain situation better, then even if it's not completely true, it stills helps. (If you use that to get sympathy that's something else, but people "having" diseases to get sympathy will always find something to try and get it anyway.)

Iirc that particular disorder is called munchausen.  People will actually injure themselves.

[laminutederire]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

It's just an idiom. He is solely after money and do not care about earth or other people I think. His behavior does not indicate anything but marketed good intuitions, which aren't genuine.

If he'd be upfront about his goals I'd be fine with it, but he always wants to persuade everyone he's not after money but something greater.

Things work, but they never work with reasonable quality or costs, and never meet the goals he advertises them with. Tesla autopilot for instance are about as average as it can be. The reason why no one else sells it is that it's not safe enough. The batteries are good, bit everything else about the cars is bad.

Space x was an idea that others were experimenting with, he just had more money to finish it faster. Not that amazing, he just took an opportunity that underfunded public research created.

Sure, but between having an idea and a prototype there is a gap. But between that prototype and having a marketable product there is an even larger gap. And I haven't really seen him bother to pass that gap properly. He just has highly expensive prototypes more than actual products. So that's not very useful to earth anyway, since its not accessible enough.

As for the carbon footprint, it's also way more polluting to produce those cars than it is producing regulat cars, so the ecological costs even out during the car lifespan. The research I've seen mostly argues more public transports and more local organisation of life in order to really reduce transportation ecological footprint.

For Tesla, they produce car of poor quality and in insufficient quantity, at a very high cost. Basically they sell barely more than what other companies have as prototypes and don't produce in large quantities because the technologies aren't mature, and its labelled as innovative...

In all fronts, it falls short of the expectations he explicitly set out many times.

[laminutederire]

23 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Iirc that particular disorder is called munchausen.  People will actually injure themselves.

Always something with a german name for that type of disorder...

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It's just an idiom. He is solely after money and do not care about earth or other people I think. His behavior does not indicate anything but marketed good intuitions, which aren't genuine.

If he'd be upfront about his goals I'd be fine with it, but he always wants to persuade everyone he's not after money but something greater.

Things work, but they never work with reasonable quality or costs, and never meet the goals he advertises them with. Tesla autopilot for instance are about as average as it can be. The reason why no one else sells it is that it's not safe enough. The batteries are good, bit everything else about the cars is bad.

Space x was an idea that others were experimenting with, he just had more money to finish it faster. Not that amazing, he just took an opportunity that underfunded public research created.

Sure, but between having an idea and a prototype there is a gap. But between that prototype and having a marketable product there is an even larger gap. And I haven't really seen him bother to pass that gap properly. He just has highly expensive prototypes more than actual products. So that's not very useful to earth anyway, since its not accessible enough.

As for the carbon footprint, it's also way more polluting to produce those cars than it is producing regulat cars, so the ecological costs even out during the car lifespan. The research I've seen mostly argues more public transports and more local organisation of life in order to really reduce transportation ecological footprint.

For Tesla, they produce car of poor quality and in insufficient quantity, at a very high cost. Basically they sell barely more than what other companies have as prototypes and don't produce in large quantities because the technologies aren't mature, and its labelled as innovative...

In all fronts, it falls short of the expectations he explicitly set out many times.

The concept that he’s not after money is ridiculous.  He’s an entrepreneur.  It’s kind of a horrible job.  The only upside is it occasionally pays unbelievably well.

 

As to the quality of the cars that is more or less the diametric opposite of what I’ve been hearing.  Mostly.  What I was told is that instead of the standard rule of never buy a car in the first year a given model is out its don’t buy one in the first few months a model is out.  Tesla apparently has greater manufacturing flexibility than other manufacturers and can tweak designs much faster. Quality control seems to be on par with other manufacturers though not above it in any way.  Occasionally below.  They apparently failed a crash test set but were able to pass it by the next quarter.  I suspect there are a lot of recalls to make that kind of thing work.  He’s beta testing behind launch rather than ahead of it.  Something Bethesda does that I don’t particularly like.  He’s moving several times faster than a traditional auto company.  Aside from arguably the electric roof tiles he hasn’t produced a fallout 76 level fail though.

 

none of this bodes particularly well for that ECT thing. 
 

Tesla has a 10 year advantage in battery and drivetrain design on other car manufacturers.  The motors are apparently particularly interesting as they use rather advanced magnet systems which produce much greater efficiency than other electric cars.

 

  No one sells a full autopilot.  For exactly those exact safety reasons.  The hardware needed for autopilot has been known for a long time.  The issue is software. The difference between Tesla’s cars and other manufacturers is the hardware for autopilot is included in the cars but is not turned on.  A tesla already bought may eventually develop autopilot whereas a car already bought from a different one never will.  If he’s selling the cars as having functional autopilot already though that would be bad.  Full autopilot may never be functional on any car.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Always something with a german name for that type of disorder...

My stepmother would take exception to that.  She’s a full on ascetic and has been since I was a child.  Doesn’t mean you’re wrong though.  There’s as much crazy in germany as there is anywhere else.  Possibly more than average in my stepmother.  She gave my step brother a moss filled vest that was supposed to protect him from cosmic rays he might be hit with on aero plane trips.   He was horrified. 
 

He did get vaccinated as a child though.  Steinerists are very into vaccinations.

[Otto_iii]

I thought it was believed, atleast likely, that autism and related issues are largely a symptom of gut bacteria, not so much mind, thus why fecal transplants help out so much with it (albeit are not considered practical outside of extreme cases).  Why are we shocking peoples brains when we haven't figured out a simple solution for rectifying the gut biome

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324945.php
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/gut-bacteria-may-contribute-autism-symptoms-mouse-study-finds

maybe start with the most likely actual problem, or atleast see how far that can go, rather then band-aid the issue with something that could only be seen as invasive (not that fecal transplants aren't, but there is hope better ways will be developed in regards to this solution)

[spartaman64]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

As to the quality of the cars that is more or less the diametric opposite of what I’ve been hearing.  Mostly.  What I was told is that instead of the standard rule of never buy a car in the first year a given model is out its don’t buy one in the first few months a model is out.  Tesla apparently has greater manufacturing flexibility than other manufacturers and can tweak designs much faster. Quality control seems to be on par with other manufacturers though not above it in any way.  Occasionally below.  They apparently failed a crash test set but were able to pass it by the next quarter.  I suspect there are a lot of recalls to make that kind of thing work.  He’s beta testing behind launch rather than ahead of it.  Something Bethesda does that I don’t particularly like.  He’s moving several times faster than a traditional auto company.  Aside from arguably the electric roof tiles he hasn’t produced a fallout 76 level fail though.

 

none of this bodes particularly well for that ECT thing. 
 

Tesla has a 10 year advantage in battery and drivetrain design on other car manufacturers.  The motors are apparently particularly interesting as they use rather advanced magnet systems which produce much greater efficiency than other electric cars.

 

  No one sells a full autopilot.  For exactly those exact safety reasons.  The hardware needed for autopilot has been known for a long time.  The issue is software. The difference between Tesla’s cars and other manufacturers is the hardware for autopilot is included in the cars but is not turned on.  A tesla already bought may eventually develop autopilot whereas a car already bought from a different one never will.  If he’s selling the cars as having functional autopilot already though that would be bad.  Full autopilot may never be functional on any car.

idk every time i hear about someone's tesla they say the windows broke after 3000 miles and then the handles broke and then the roof leaked. and im just like what are they making theses cars out of? paper machete? my parents had a toyota camry from before i even came to the US and there wasnt any problems with it until like 2 years ago which was easily after like 80,000 miles

[Otto_iii]

8 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

idk every time i hear about someone's tesla they say the windows broke after 3000 miles and then the handles broke and then the roof leaked. and im just like what are they making theses cars out of? paper machete? my parents had a toyota camry from before i even came to the US and there wasnt any problems with it until like 2 years ago which was easily after like 80,000 miles

edit: They suck at chassis HARD, should be the simplest thing but they are awful at it in all quantifiable ways. 

You'd think if a tech company could do one thing right its engineer the simplest most crucial part of a car, but nah.

Same group did mention that the electronics, and the motors were top notch though, very good, world class in some cases, and we are talking electronics here so the brain implant thing should be fine. 

[Bombastinator]

47 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

idk every time i hear about someone's tesla they say the windows broke after 3000 miles and then the handles broke and then the roof leaked. and im just like what are they making theses cars out of? paper machete? my parents had a toyota camry from before i even came to the US and there wasnt any problems with it until like 2 years ago which was easily after like 80,000 miles

Not what I am hearing.  Where are you hearing it?  There have been long term reviews of the car posted.   The window thing seems particularly strange.  How is window breakage based on mileage?  Heat stress or less likely vibration, but mileage?

 

doing some searches..

 

I am seeing several articles about break-ins.  Not glass but theft attempts Apparently people are breaking into the cars by removing other parts of the car and avoiding the doors because the door lock system is too secure.  They can’t steal the car but they can still steal items from the car by removing part of the car itself.  Still searching...

 

The only reference to glass breaking I can find is this one: https://insideevs.com/news/376239/tesla-glass-breaking-butt-sits-jail/

 

seems it was also actually a break-in, though for a time it was apparently argued to be a spontaneous breakage.

 

i am finding a complaint specifically about rear quarter windows of model 3s where thieves are breaking the glass of a small window not tied into the security system.  Still not spontaneous breakage but it does to be a problem for that model

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/15/innovative-tesla-model-3-seat-lock-aims-to-reduce-break-ins/

[spartaman64]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Not what I am hearing.  Where are you hearing it?  There have been long term reviews of the car posted.   The window thing seems particularly strange.  How is window breakage based on mileage?  Heat stress or less likely vibration, but mileage?

 

doing some searches..

 

I am seeing several articles about break-ins.  Not glass but theft attempts Apparently people are breaking into the cars by removing other parts of the car and avoiding the doors because the door lock system is too secure.  They can’t steal the car but they can still steal items from the car by removing part of the car itself.  Still searching...

it was a review on youtube and the guy overall loves the tesla. but i guess maybe they improved it seeing from this article https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-model-3-model-s-regain-consumer-reports-recommendation/

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

it was a review on youtube and the guy overall loves the tesla. but i guess maybe they improved it seeing from this article https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/tesla-model-3-model-s-regain-consumer-reports-recommendation/

That would fit with the whole fixing problems fast thing tesla seems to be doing.  I wonder if the break in problem is already solved.