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williamcll

Electroconvulsive therapy right into your brain - Elon claims BCI can solve Autism

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3 hours ago, computers-are-cool said:

Maybe we should wait to see if people like the change before judging if it is a good or bad thing. Also if you had a disability you would not know if you would like to get rid of it or not because you would never have lived without it.

That is 100% false. If you asked a blind man if they would like to see more often than not they would say yes. If you asked a person born with nonfunctional legs and told them you could give them functioning legs more often than not they would want them. Just because you have lived your whole life with a disability doesn't mean you wouldn't know if you wanted to be rid if it. 

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1 hour ago, SenKa said:

Elon always seems to stir up a shitstorm around here...

 

I say let the man dream. He works towards his goals until they reach such critical impossibility he runs out of money to do them. Maybe something good will come of it.

 

If he creates some raspberry pi nano-w looking thing you can stick in a human brain and cure various developmental and mental disorders without massive negative side effects, not only will he be able to retire immediately, his great-great grandkids will never work a day in their lives.

And if he doesn't get there who cares, he's wasting his own money.


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1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

In practice, it is useless short to middle and probably even long term to cure such things. So even saying it might be is preposterous and arrogant if you ask me... 

Well he is Elon musk.  You gotta expect some weird.  This one comes possibly dangerously close to hurting people though which is kind of a line IMHO.  I’m totally willing to smile and wave when he does something thing good for the world.  He’s probably trying to.  This one may not pan out though and people could get hurt.


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2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Well he is Elon musk.  You gotta expect some weird.  This one comes possibly dangerously close to hurting people though which is kind of a line IMHO.  I’m totally willing to smile and wave when he does something thing good for the world.  He’s probably trying to.  This one may not pan out though and people could get hurt.

I think as long as test subjects are made fully aware of the risks, sign on their own will and are offered medical insurance, it's alright. Elon seems like a reasonable guy, however crazy he is.


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7 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I think as long as test subjects are made fully aware of the risks, sign on their own will and are offered medical insurance, it's alright. Elon seems like a reasonable guy, however crazy he is.

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.


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Or, ya know, just don't vaccinate them. Don't need electroconvulsive therapy if you don't have autism 😎

 

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8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.

No i totally agree. I'd rather have 100 Elons than 100 Warren Buffets. But you have to admit he's the kind of person who goes all in on an idea and when it doesn't work out, it's just as flashy as when it does.

 

Honestly, he's a role model for anyone who wants to turn their creativity into success.


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1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

That is 100% false. If you asked a blind man if they would like to see more often than not they would say yes. If you asked a person born with nonfunctional legs and told them you could give them functioning legs more often than not they would want them. Just because you have lived your whole life with a disability doesn't mean you wouldn't know if you wanted to be rid if it. 

That comes down to the person, not others.  I have a developmental disorder and I am fine with keeping it.  The problem is more with people assuming we are all the same, and acting like they know what we all want.  I have autism, and honestly I like the perks of it.  Sure there are problems, but I would rather have it than be cured of it.  Now, if it got rid of my epilepsy that woukd be nice as I am not really into being a break dance champion.


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8 hours ago, Murasaki said:

Hundred years of innovating the process of poking something with a stick. But hey it's still innovation. #sciencerulez

true, and I have seen forms of EST work short term for some people.  but the brain keeps reverting back to its original state.

 

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't intereprt Elon as saying "I've found the cure for autism!" but rather him making general statements of potential future possibilities with Neuralink.

 

 

Because autism is a mental disability and shouldn't be seen as a personality trait anymore than let's say alcoholism, clinical depression, anorexia, PTSD, OCD, bipolar, borderline etc.

Just because an alcoholic thinks that it is "part of their personality" doesn't mean their lives (or the lives of people around them) wouldn't improve without it.


I get that it is a big part of some peoples' lives and they have come to terms with "this is how I am", but that shouldn't be the case if we discover a way of changing it. Why wouldn't you want to get rid of a disability if given the choice?

Your genetic make up is a disability, you don't fully understand.

 

 

How about you go and talk to as many people with autism as you can and listen to what they have to say about it.  Autism for largest part does not affect cognitive ability to understand things, in fact that is usually hardest part of the condition, knowing exactly what the problems are but not being able to do anything about it. 

 

 

Yes some would love to change those attributes, but others do not.  Some embrace it as apart of them and some just don't know they even have it.   You, have no right to decide for another person if they have a disability when it comes to something as complex as autism.

 

4 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

I live with autism and if getting rid of it meant that I’d have a shot in hell of not being a socially inept sack of shit, I’d take the cure. 

What people don’t understand is that some people feel like autism is a handicap for them, myself included. I wish I was a far more normal person like my two brothers, and wasn’t like myself, an incredibly awkward and offensive VHS collector who likes incredibly regular cars. Not everyone is like me, though, and that’s what has to be understood about autism. It is, in its rawest form, a developmental disorder that can affect how someone does damn near everything.

exactly, some traits of autism I'd happily be rid of (like the anxiety).  But others I'd like to keep.  I'd list some of things I can do here but people wouldn't believe me.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

I recall a documentary a while back that basically did a bunch of brain analysis from some functional and semi-functional autistic patients and is basically looks like hole(s) drilled through their brain in terms of brain activity you'd normally expect in the 3D models. It's a permanent wiring of the brain and the mostly-functional people have managed to make their brain "wire around" the bad brain circuits, where as the barely-functional ones that seem to behave like 3 year olds forever, can not.

 

Here's at least one 

https://source.wustl.edu/2012/02/brain-differences-seen-at-6-months-in-infants-who-develop-autism/

 

This also suggests that there could be an environmental factor in play. Like did the parents ever partake in drugs, alcohol, or some other risky activity at any point before, during or the two years after the birth of their children?

 

I don't see how a BCI can "solve autism" any more than spackle can make a wall new again.

 

There is a plethora of studies and articles in the science world on Autism.  I would warn against relying on just one or two to form an idea of what it is. 


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32 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

That comes down to the person, not others.  I have a developmental disorder and I am fine with keeping it.  The problem is more with people assuming we are all the same, and acting like they know what we all want.  I have autism, and honestly I like the perks of it.  Sure there are problems, but I would rather have it than be cured of it.  Now, if it got rid of my epilepsy that woukd be nice as I am not really into being a break dance champion.

A lot of it is how old you are, how much pain it caused in your life, and what trade offs are required.  Disabilities become part of personality.  My worry isn’t a chance that it may be curative.  My worry is that brains are incredibly delicate, largely unknown territory, and critical to human life.  ect has an astoundingly horrible historical reputation.  On a level with lobotomy.  Great care needs to be taken.  Also the whole autism thing STILL wasn’t mentioned in the actual data.  That was an accusation of the title.


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1 hour ago, Energycore said:

And if he doesn't get there who cares, he's wasting his own money.

Exactly!

 

Elon is a social genius, and a very intelligent businessman. He knows how to work a crowd, and has money to toy with, so who cares what he does? This guy could stumble across the cure for brain cancer for all we know.


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from the article

Quote

Autism is not a disease.

what

 

5 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

autism isnt a negative thing

 

Show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.
You won't be able to, because its a negative thing.

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11 minutes ago, SenKa said:

Exactly!

 

Elon is a social genius, and a very intelligent businessman. He knows how to work a crowd, and has money to toy with, so who cares what he does? This guy could stumble across the cure for brain cancer for all we know.

It’s possible.  As to “who cares what he does?” I think he deserves the same rights to freedoms and the same oversight as anyone else.  No more, but also no less.  Immense wealth has great potential for both good and ill.  Tempted to quote Spider-Man here.  Or Jesus.  They both had valuable and very similar things to say on the subject despite opinions on their backgrounds.


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9 minutes ago, poochyena said:

from the article

what

 

 

Show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.
You won't be able to, because its a negative thing.

there are many advantages to autism also like the ability to focus on one task for a long time. the people ive met that have autism are some of the smartest people i know. most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

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I won't believe it until I see it work


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Holy fuck, it's like the people on this forum think that people with autism and aspergers are going to be rounded up and shocked into normalcy. 

 

It reminds me of that scene in xmen when rogue asks if there is a cure and storm says "there is no cure, there is nothing wrong with us" the person that can control weather says to the girl that can kill you if she touches you for too long. 

 

Isn't the whole argument about autism is that it's a spectrum disorder? So those that are debilitated by it may want a cure (rogue) and those that don't think so, or are happy with it, don't have to. But nor do you have the right to speak on behalf of everyone with autism or aspergers (storm) 

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

A lot of it is how old you are, how much pain it caused in your life, and what trade offs are required.  Disabilities become part of personality.  My worry isn’t a chance that it may be curative.  My worry is that brains are incredibly delicate, largely unknown territory, and critical to human life.  ect has an astoundingly horrible historical reputation.  On a level with lobotomy.  Great care needs to be taken.  Also the whole autism thing STILL wasn’t mentioned in the actual data.  That was an accusation of the title.

Asperger's Syndrome/high functioning autism for me as it's different for everyone with it.

Pros:

-Technically I get a free ride.  Like just having it waives my tuition.

 

-I get job opportunities all the time, and they don't even care about my credentials because I'm basically a great problem solver to them.   Plus, I'm like a walking tax break to several corporations.

 

-I do well at what interests me.

 

-Might come off as a wtf, but death doesn't bother me and I always shrug it off as something that just happens.

 

-I think from my autism I have a ridiculous pain tolerance to the point my dentist loves me, I call him daddy.  It also gave me a high tolerance towards hot peppers.


Cons:

-People yelling I'm crutching for not understanding something in a social scenario then saying it might be my autism.   I mean, at least from what I was told by mental health professionals, part of Aspergers/high functioning is not really doing well in social scenarios, and also not picking up on social cues.   Like I'm not trying to use it as an excuse for certain behaviors, and accept I can be an asshole at times as that's just part of being a human.   However, I'm just saying that part of it could be that regardless of it being okay or not.

 

-I was going to add more, but I kinda said it all in the first  con.   So, I tend to not do well in areas I have no interest in and can be highly judgmental towards others.   I mean I have grown out of it compared to how I use to be.  But, can still be judgmental.

-I love to brag.

 

-I love to argue and have a fuck you attitude towards authority which makes getting a job difficult.   Then again that might be due to me growing up on Henry Rollins and clinging to that.


-I have trouble asking for help, and can be a know it all.

 

As for epilepsy there's really only cons to it, and literally no pros.  I did go off my meds back in like 2016-2017 as I thought the cons outweighed the pros the them.   Then I started to realize I became an argumentative asshole, was seizuring out all the time, and was projecting on my friends in social scenarios.   I mean everyone tried getting me to do alternative medicine like the whole green card method to keto, and after doing the research behind that mindset I found that it wouldn't really help me at all.  At least not for my case.  Now, maybe it helps in some cases.   Like, I did the research on the seizures and cannabis and that was for a type of epilepsy I do not have where in some cases medication doesn't help.   Keto, I've done research into and it's not great for muscle development and there's honestly not enough evidence to prove that it would help.  Gave it a shot anyways and boy did the lack of fiber piss me off, and not only that but I was still seizuring out and still arguing.   Went back on my mood stabilizer that doubled as seizure medication aka a form of depaktoe.  Been arguing less, far more social, haven't seizured out since I went back on it, and ironically the health risk that concerned me is actually no longer a thing or extremely rare.


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| CPU:  Ryzen 3 2200g(buying a 3900x in August for it) | CPU Cooler:  Stock at the moment(have a dark rock pro 4 for that 3900x) | Paste:  Kryonaut | Motherboard:  ASRock x470 Taichi(replacing with a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite) | RAM:  G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 48 GB (2 x 16 GB + 2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 | Boot Drives:  Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280+Crucial BX500 120 GB 2.5" SSD | Storage Drives:  Toshiba X300 4 TB 128 MB Cache 3.5" HDD+PNY CS900 240 GB | GPU:  Sapphire Radeon VII 16 GB HBM2 Video Card | Case:  Cooler Master MasterBox MB511 RGB | PSU:  EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply w/CableMod E-Series Cable Kit (Black/Red) | Case Fans:  2 Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans | Displays:  AOC U2879VF 28.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor (Replacing with an LG 4k IPS display for game art)+AOC G2460PQU 24.0" 1920x1080 144 Hz Monitor | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Keyboard:  Ducky Shine 7 Blackout - MK Exclusive First Release - RGB LED Double Shot PBT Mechanical Keyboard with Silent Red Switches | Mousepad:  Gaya Entertainment Oversized Gaming Mousepad Doom | Audio:  Massdrop x AKG K7XX Audiophile Open-back Headphones+Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB Cardioid Condenser USB Microphone+Kingston HyperX Cloud II 7.1 Channel Headset+iBasso IT01 Dynamic Driver Audiophile In-Ear Monitors/Earbuds (Black)+Pair of Mackie MR624s(came with stands+isolation pads) | OSes:  Windows 10 Pro+openSUSE Tumbleweed |



VashTheStampede(ROG Zephyrus M GU502):

| CPU:  i7-9750h | RAM:  32GB Dual Channel 2666mhz CL 19(Stock+Samsung 16GB DDR4 PC4-21300, 2666MHZ, 260 PIN SODIMM, 1.2V, CL 19 ) | Storage:  1TB SSD with Optane | GPU:  Nvidia RTX 2060 | Display:  144hz 3ms | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro |

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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.

Tbh most brilliant people are a bit crazy or at least seem a bit crazy. Take Albert einstein for example. He had some pretty crazy ideas but that is part of what made him brilliant. Think of the amount of times people have thought of a crazy idea that others thought was impossible and then they make it happen. One such idea is the airplane. I use to think have prosthetics that you could control just by thinking would be impossible but someone was crazy enough to think otherwise and make it happen. I have no doubt that this technology has a real possibility of success. 

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6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Holy fuck, it's like the people on this forum think that people with autism and aspergers are going to be rounded up and shocked into normalcy. 

 

It reminds me of that scene in xmen when rogue asks if there is a cure and storm says "there is no cure, there is nothing wrong with us" the person that can control weather says to the girl that can kill you if she touches you for too long. 

 

Isn't the whole argument about autism is that it's a spectrum disorder? So those that are debilitated by it may want a cure (rogue) and those that don't think so, or are happy with it, don't have to. But nor do you have the right to speak on behalf of everyone with autism or aspergers (storm) 

This forum is just a really bad overdose of fucking cough medicine.


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Local Saturn wagon owner and a Southern California ex-pat. I also do low-quality video captures sometimes.

 

 

@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie | Jake x Tyler :^

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Just out of curiosity, is autism still considered a mental disorder in some places?   Cuz like when I go to social security they legally can't tell me I have a mental disorder due to reclassification, and I was told by a few mental health professionals that it was reclassified as a developmental disorder.

I was tested back in 2005 at the Kennedy Krieger Institute, partner of John Hopkins[thought it was part of it hence the edit], for it and passed with flying colors when I was like 14/15ish.   That's really the only way to know.  Originally I was diagnosed with bipolar because I was getting into a lot of fights, but my dad went over the reports and was only ending fights people put me in.   I wasn't picking up on social cues, only doing well when something interested me while failing at anything I didn't care about/outright ignored it, and apparently to him showing clear signs of Asperger's.


Bloodshed and the Fenris-Wolf:

| CPU:  Ryzen 3 2200g(buying a 3900x in August for it) | CPU Cooler:  Stock at the moment(have a dark rock pro 4 for that 3900x) | Paste:  Kryonaut | Motherboard:  ASRock x470 Taichi(replacing with a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite) | RAM:  G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 48 GB (2 x 16 GB + 2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 | Boot Drives:  Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280+Crucial BX500 120 GB 2.5" SSD | Storage Drives:  Toshiba X300 4 TB 128 MB Cache 3.5" HDD+PNY CS900 240 GB | GPU:  Sapphire Radeon VII 16 GB HBM2 Video Card | Case:  Cooler Master MasterBox MB511 RGB | PSU:  EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply w/CableMod E-Series Cable Kit (Black/Red) | Case Fans:  2 Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans | Displays:  AOC U2879VF 28.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor (Replacing with an LG 4k IPS display for game art)+AOC G2460PQU 24.0" 1920x1080 144 Hz Monitor | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Keyboard:  Ducky Shine 7 Blackout - MK Exclusive First Release - RGB LED Double Shot PBT Mechanical Keyboard with Silent Red Switches | Mousepad:  Gaya Entertainment Oversized Gaming Mousepad Doom | Audio:  Massdrop x AKG K7XX Audiophile Open-back Headphones+Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB Cardioid Condenser USB Microphone+Kingston HyperX Cloud II 7.1 Channel Headset+iBasso IT01 Dynamic Driver Audiophile In-Ear Monitors/Earbuds (Black)+Pair of Mackie MR624s(came with stands+isolation pads) | OSes:  Windows 10 Pro+openSUSE Tumbleweed |



VashTheStampede(ROG Zephyrus M GU502):

| CPU:  i7-9750h | RAM:  32GB Dual Channel 2666mhz CL 19(Stock+Samsung 16GB DDR4 PC4-21300, 2666MHZ, 260 PIN SODIMM, 1.2V, CL 19 ) | Storage:  1TB SSD with Optane | GPU:  Nvidia RTX 2060 | Display:  144hz 3ms | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro |

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34 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

there are many advantages to autism also like the ability to focus on one task for a long time. the people ive met that have autism are some of the smartest people i know. most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

then feel free to show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.

 

35 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

wrong

Screenshot_2019-11-18 autism - Google Search.png

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4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

then feel free to show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.

 

I do have friends without autism who actually asked me if they could borrow it because of one part of it, and yes they don't care about the cons of it.   Which is the excelling part.


Bloodshed and the Fenris-Wolf:

| CPU:  Ryzen 3 2200g(buying a 3900x in August for it) | CPU Cooler:  Stock at the moment(have a dark rock pro 4 for that 3900x) | Paste:  Kryonaut | Motherboard:  ASRock x470 Taichi(replacing with a Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite) | RAM:  G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 48 GB (2 x 16 GB + 2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 | Boot Drives:  Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280+Crucial BX500 120 GB 2.5" SSD | Storage Drives:  Toshiba X300 4 TB 128 MB Cache 3.5" HDD+PNY CS900 240 GB | GPU:  Sapphire Radeon VII 16 GB HBM2 Video Card | Case:  Cooler Master MasterBox MB511 RGB | PSU:  EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply w/CableMod E-Series Cable Kit (Black/Red) | Case Fans:  2 Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans | Displays:  AOC U2879VF 28.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor (Replacing with an LG 4k IPS display for game art)+AOC G2460PQU 24.0" 1920x1080 144 Hz Monitor | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Keyboard:  Ducky Shine 7 Blackout - MK Exclusive First Release - RGB LED Double Shot PBT Mechanical Keyboard with Silent Red Switches | Mousepad:  Gaya Entertainment Oversized Gaming Mousepad Doom | Audio:  Massdrop x AKG K7XX Audiophile Open-back Headphones+Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB Cardioid Condenser USB Microphone+Kingston HyperX Cloud II 7.1 Channel Headset+iBasso IT01 Dynamic Driver Audiophile In-Ear Monitors/Earbuds (Black)+Pair of Mackie MR624s(came with stands+isolation pads) | OSes:  Windows 10 Pro+openSUSE Tumbleweed |



VashTheStampede(ROG Zephyrus M GU502):

| CPU:  i7-9750h | RAM:  32GB Dual Channel 2666mhz CL 19(Stock+Samsung 16GB DDR4 PC4-21300, 2666MHZ, 260 PIN SODIMM, 1.2V, CL 19 ) | Storage:  1TB SSD with Optane | GPU:  Nvidia RTX 2060 | Display:  144hz 3ms | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro |

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12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

then feel free to show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.

 

wrong

 

why does it matter for it to be a person who doesnt have autism? i know at least 2 people with autism that like being able to focus on things for long periods and dont really mind the negatives/found ways around them. i haven't really discussed it with the other ones i know. and i dont walk up to people without autism and randomly ask them if they want to have autism but i can guarantee that a lot of people especially ones who are scientists or mathematicians would like the ability to focus better and who might not mind the social issues partially maybe because they are like me and are socially awkward even without autism anyways

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What I don't seem to understand about this thread is that people would love to have the good of autism but wouldn't want to deal with the bad of it. That's something I really don't get about it, because you cannot have one without the other when it comes to autism. I'd rather have neither than to have autism, which might (read: most definitely doesn't) make me smarter but at the cost of being socially retarded.


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Local Saturn wagon owner and a Southern California ex-pat. I also do low-quality video captures sometimes.

 

 

@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie | Jake x Tyler :^

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