Electroconvulsive therapy right into your brain - Elon claims BCI can solve Autism

[spartaman64]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't intereprt Elon as saying "I've found the cure for autism!" but rather him making general statements of potential future possibilities with Neuralink.

 

 

Because autism is a mental disability and shouldn't be seen as a personality trait anymore than let's say alcoholism, clinical depression, anorexia, PTSD, OCD, bipolar, borderline etc.

Just because an alcoholic thinks that it is "part of their personality" doesn't mean their lives (or the lives of people around them) wouldn't improve without it.

I get that it is a big part of some peoples' lives and they have come to terms with "this is how I am", but that shouldn't be the case if we discover a way of changing it. Why wouldn't you want to get rid of a disability if given the choice?

autism isnt a negative thing and it is part of someone's identity imo. saying you will cure someone's autism to me is like if someone told me they will cure my personality type by changing it from INFP to ISFJ or change me from an introvert to an extrovert. one of my best friend has autism and my gf and i wouldnt want to change that part of them

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

I live with autism and if getting rid of it meant that I’d have a shot in hell of not being a socially inept sack of shit, I’d take the cure. 

What people don’t understand is that some people feel like autism is a handicap for them, myself included. I wish I was a far more normal person like my two brothers, and wasn’t like myself, an incredibly awkward and offensive VHS collector who likes incredibly regular cars. Not everyone is like me, though, and that’s what has to be understood about autism. It is, in its rawest form, a developmental disorder that can affect how someone does damn near everything.

I, personally, like being the weird, social outcast. I like being kind of a hermit out here in the woods and shunning even my own relatives. I don't mind having very limited set of things that interest me and I have no interest being like anyone else. For me, the issues I'm struggling with are the sensory kind: I'm very sensitive to touch, especially my fingers, I'm very sensitive to smells, I'm very sensitive to certain kinds of noises and the by FAR biggest issue for me is....mouth-feel of food. If I could choose one aspect of my Assburger's that I could fix, it'd be that last one -- it's something I've been struggling with all the way from a baby and I've gotten into a lot of fights just simply because I can't eat the food that someone's prepared for me.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Phill104 said:

It is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm.

Well, duhh. That's what all disorders are. The definition of disorder is "an abnormal physical or mental condition".

You can make the exact same claim about all disorders.

"Alcoholism is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Clinical depression is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Bipolar is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Schizophrenia is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

 

2 hours ago, Phill104 said:

While I don't disagree that for some it can be debilitating, for many it is a strength, part of who they are.

"Part of who they are" is not really a valid argument if you ask me. An alcoholic can't just say drinking is "part of who they are", even if it's genetic.

Should we not try and treat people with schizophrenia because "it's part of who they are"?

Should we not try and develop prosthetic limbs because missing an arm or leg is "part of who someone is"?

 

2 hours ago, Phill104 said:

I can guarantee you, most of those diagnosed with it would not want to be changed in any way. 

I completely believe that, but I also don't think people with autism understand what it would be like to not have it. Think of it the other way around.

If we had a serum which gave people autism, do you think people would willingly take it? I don't think they would. Why not? Because they know what it's like to be healthy, and do not want to get a mental disorder. Disorders and diseases should be created so that everyone can get as good of a life as possible.

If autism was a good thing then people would want to get autism, right? Pregnant women would be happy to hear that their unborn children could have autism. But they aren't, because despite having some positive aspects it is overall a net negative thing.

For example parents of autistic children have far lower levels of marital satisfaction, higher divorce rates, higher stress levels, poorer psychological well-being, and so on.

Autistic people also have a much more difficult time finding suitable jobs and to be a contributing member of society. Only 16% of autistic adults are full-time paid employees.

 

2 hours ago, Phill104 said:

Take a look at the documentary I mentioned, it is very informative giving an insight to someone who has Asperger's

I will!

 

 

1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

didn't he have some neurosurgeon backing him up or something? ._. although just one isn't exactly........... enough

It's very important to understand that Neuralink isn't just Elon sitting at a desk and thinking of cool ideas.

Neuralink has employed over 90 people and are working with neurosurgeons at Stanford. I think they are already doing experiments on mice.

 

 

[CarlBar]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't intereprt Elon as saying "I've found the cure for autism!" but rather him making general statements of potential future possibilities with Neuralink.

 

 

This was my read and from what i know about the tech it isn't impossible it could have an effect.

[spartaman64]

52 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Well, duhh. That's what all disorders are. The definition of disorder is "an abnormal physical or mental condition".

You can make the exact same claim about all disorders.

"Alcoholism is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Clinical depression is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Bipolar is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

"Schizophrenia is only a disorder because it does not conform to what society deems the norm".

 

 

those examples are considered a disorder because they harm the person. autism doesnt directly hurts the person's physical and mental health like the other examples. if something's a disorder just because its out of them norm then me liking purple is a disorder because blue is a more popular color. And I wouldn't mind my kid having autism any more than I would mind their favorite color being red

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, mr moose said:

Righto,   I'll take stupid comments from dumb famous people for $50 please.

 

 

 

Seriously,  there is a lot more we don't know about autism than there is we do know.  Suffice to say what we do know is that you can't catch it, it is almost definitely genetic, there are many co-morbid   in utero conditions that correlate really well (also heavily genetic).   And most importantly you can't fix it with diet, energy stones, rekie, spiritual intervention or taking leaches,  you also can't cure it by electrocuting brains. 

 

 

EDIT: #fuckwit

I recall a documentary a while back that basically did a bunch of brain analysis from some functional and semi-functional autistic patients and is basically looks like hole(s) drilled through their brain in terms of brain activity you'd normally expect in the 3D models. It's a permanent wiring of the brain and the mostly-functional people have managed to make their brain "wire around" the bad brain circuits, where as the barely-functional ones that seem to behave like 3 year olds forever, can not.

 

Here's at least one 

Quote

The new research, which relied on brain scans acquired at night while infants were naturally sleeping, suggests that autism doesn’t appear abruptly, but instead develops over time during infancy.

https://source.wustl.edu/2012/02/brain-differences-seen-at-6-months-in-infants-who-develop-autism/

 

This also suggests that there could be an environmental factor in play. Like did the parents ever partake in drugs, alcohol, or some other risky activity at any point before, during or the two years after the birth of their children?

 

I don't see how a BCI can "solve autism" any more than spackle can make a wall new again.

[Vishera]

Autism is a developmental disorder that cause some parts of the brain to develop slower than the usual.

This makes Autism incurable especially in adults,which their brains can't develop anymore.

There are also a lot of unwanted aliments in addition to the lack of development such as very sensitive senses,lack of energy or too much energy and more,

Some aliments of autism and autism itself can be genetic.

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, williamcll said:

It was not clear what Musk meant by saying Neuralink could "solve" autism, which is not a disease but a developmental disorder.

He meant that he doesn't actually have a clue what he's talking about. Musk isn't a neuroscientist and it will take years for this to become anything functional, the reality of it is he just doesn't know if it will be useful or for what.

7 hours ago, williamcll said:

Neuralink is "intended to address the existential risk associated with digital superintelligence," Musk told Fridman. "We will not be able to be smarter than a digital supercomputer, so, therefore, if you cannot beat 'em, join 'em."

Like... am I the only one who sees this as delusional? We're nowhere near having a working AGI and the human thought process is largely unknown. This is just a guy throwing money at projects that sound cool and sciency to him.

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Epstein was a pedo.  In prison.  Even if he didn’t kill himself it doesn’t mean someone political did.

Yeah, because random people with no institutional power have the means to stage a situation where the highest profile prisoner in the facility who already attempted suicide is left unattended for hours, with no cameras, right after being taken out of suicide ward. Even if he killed himself, clearly someone with power had interest in allowing it.

1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

didn't he have some neurosurgeon backing him up or something? ._. although just one isn't exactly........... enough

He probably only hired the people who didn't say "uh... you're insane" during the job interview

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't intereprt Elon as saying "I've found the cure for autism!" but rather him making general statements of potential future possibilities with Neuralink.

So if he said

Quote

well, let's see, this could allow us to read in people's minds, maybe do some telekinesis and teleport - those are things that have to do with more powerful brains, right?

we should not call him an absolute buffoon?

[PlayStation 2]

This thread has sure gone down the toilet.

[laminutederire]

7 hours ago, CarlBar said:

 

To be fair if they ever get enough of a handle on how the brain works to make this useful i could see it being helpful in those cases, the very understanding of how the brain functions that would make this broadly applicable should give enormous insight into the neurology behind countless mental disorders.

 

Weather for example i'd, (I'm on the autism spectrum), want it i'm less sure on.

The thing is that no one on this earth has a proper understanding of what autism is exactly, so it's just pure announcements to hype investors as usual with that guy...

[CarlBar]

Om caught up.

 

@LAwLz I'm going to echo Kisai in saying that Autism is a difference in the fundamental functioning of the brain. People with depression, schizophrenia, alcoholism, e.t.c still have a brain that functions normally. As a computer example Alcoholism e.t.c. are the equivalent of being unable to run your newly installed game because some piece of malware or data corruption have buggered up your copy of windows. Autism and several other brain related things are a case of trying to run a windows program on Linux.

 

It's also important to understand there is a huge range of variance in the condition. There's a reason beyond lack of awareness it can go undiagnosed for literal decades, (i wasn't diagnosed until the start of this year, i turned 34 a few months later), it can in many cases be very subtle. Once you know what your looking at it can seem so blindingly obvious, but it's easy for anyone not clued in to miss. Thats basically why all the misconceptions around it exist, (well that and one very corrupt doctor), it's easier to assume it was something that started later in life because no parent wants there to be somthing wrong with their child and if there is they're going to be more predispose to A) look for a cause and B) assume it wasn't there till they noticed it.

 

But one of the effects of that variance is that not everyone gets pure negetive out of it. The milder end whilst characterised by communication difficulties and social awkwardness also tends to be very detail oriented, (in a variety of ways). One of the reason things like depression, schizophrenia, alcoholism e.t.c. tend to be looked at differently is that there aren't any positive aspects to the condition. It's all negetive. Autism isn't remotely as cut and dried as that.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

53 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

I live with autism and if getting rid of it meant that I’d have a shot in hell of not being a socially inept sack of shit, I’d take the cure. 

What people don’t understand is that some people feel like autism is a handicap for them, myself included. I wish I was a far more normal person like my two brothers, and wasn’t like myself, an incredibly awkward and offensive VHS collector who likes incredibly regular cars. Not everyone is like me, though, and that’s what has to be understood about autism. It is, in its rawest form, a developmental disorder that can affect how someone does damn near everything.

Well, apparently you don't get to choose, because any research undertaken to give you such choice is deemed "insulting" by some people...

 

I'm bald. 100% genetic predisposition. Never cared about it, never wanted it to be different, never contemplated using any product marketed towards balding people, and would never repopulate my scalp the way Mr. Musk did. I just don't see any problem with my hairlessness. I also never felt insulted by anyone searching for a "cure to alopecia" or developing techniques or "treatments" for those who do want to change that aspect of them, but hey, maybe I'm just not stupid enough to survive in the snowflake era...

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

I, personally, like being the weird, social outcast. I like being kind of a hermit out here in the woods and shunning even my own relatives. I don't mind having very limited set of things that interest me and I have no interest being like anyone else.

That's not autism, it's adolescence

 

45 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

d the by FAR biggest issue for me is....mouth-feel of food. If I could choose one aspect of my Assburger's that I could fix, it'd be that last one

Not surprising

[CarlBar]

6 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

The thing is that no one on this earth has a proper understanding of what autism is exactly, so it's just pure announcements to hype investors as usual with that guy...

 

We don;t have a proper understanding of how the brain works at all. He never said it would cure autism, but that it could be useful. And if we ever understand enough of how the brain works to make this thing actually do anything, (even for average joe blogs), he may be right. he may be wrong too but he's not promising anything here so thats fine, he's saying it might be, not will be.

[PlayStation 2]

6 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, apparently you don't get to choose, because any research undertaken to give you such choice is deemed "insulting" by some people...

 

I'm bald. 100% genetic predisposition. Never cared about it, never wanted it to be different, never contemplated using any product marketed towards balding people, and would never repopulate my scalp the way Mr. Musk did. I just don't see any problem with my hairlessness. I also never felt insulted by anyone searching for a "cure to alopecia" or developing techniques or "treatments" for those who do want to change that aspect of them, but hey, maybe I'm just not stupid enough to survive in the snowflake era...

And I don’t understand why everyone gets offended by research on how to, at least, get around autism (or even to cure it). I’ve always been the fifth wheel in everything my family does because my interests are so god damn left field. My poor communications skills also have massively impacted literally everything I do. I would give anything to not have autism and to just be a normal person. 

But people’s insistence on autism = normal will permanently fuck any chances of me being a normal person. It actually pisses me off. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

 

 

If autism was a good thing then people would want to get autism, right? Pregnant women would be happy to hear that their unborn children could have autism. But they aren't, because despite having some positive aspects it is overall a net negative thing.

Is it? As earlier stated, there are many types of Autism ans some forms appear to have evolved to help those in certain regions of the world.

 

Would it be right that if we developed a test for autism in the unborn child that we should operate a social cleansing ethic? Certainly not IMO. We would not have Issac Newton, Dan Akroyd,Bill Gates, Chris Packham, Mozart, Albert Einstein or many others, the list is huge.  

 

While on the subject of social cleansing, IIRC Iceland are currently in the debate regarding Downs Syndrome. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

For example parents of autistic children have far lower levels of marital satisfaction, higher divorce rates, higher stress levels, poorer psychological well-being, and so on.

 

The image of autism is quite negative in the press. So much so that a fear has arisen to the detriment of the population. For instance when the media blew up out of all proportion a proved to be incorrect bit of research into a link between certain vaccinations and autism it resulted in people not getting their kids vaccinated. There has been no reduction in the cases of autism diagnosed but a big increase in the potentially deadly measles. We need a more positive outlook of the milder forms and work on ways of mitigating the problems experienced by those with more sever forms, and helping the parents and carers deal with the situation. All too often society just turns their back and pretends they do not exist.

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Autistic people also have a much more difficult time finding suitable jobs and to be a contributing member of society.

Only 16% of autistic adults are full-time paid employees.

Nowt wrong with that. People contribute in many ways and IMO we do not need to worry too much about the small percentage who cannot for whatever reason pay taxes. We can be a stronger society (and forgive me for going a bit star trek) if we work at utilising the strengths that every person has instead of putting the focus on their weaknesses.

 

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

 

 

It's very important to understand that Neuralink isn't just Elon sitting at a desk and thinking of cool ideas.

Neuralink has employed over 90 people and are working with neurosurgeons at Stanford. I think they are already doing experiments on mice.

The biggest problem I have with Elon here is he is selling hope to the desperate. He often fits into the same book as many crap British tabloids in this aspect. The sale of false hope, especially when it is done to raise profile, or for profit is wrong. At least he hasn't tried to cure gay, which is something another group of american "neurosurgeons" are currently trying to flog. Elon does do many good things, but I often picture him sitting in his study stroking a white cat.

30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

And I don’t understand why everyone gets offended by research on how to, at least, get around autism (or even to cure it). I’ve always been the fifth wheel in everything my family does because my interests are so god damn left field. My poor communications skills also have massively impacted literally everything I do. I would give anything to not have autism and to just be a normal person. 

You communication skills online seem excellent to me. It is also very obvious you have a lot to offer the world. Left field can be a very positive thing. Without people like you a lot would be lost, so keep up what you are doing.

[laminutederire]

28 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

We don;t have a proper understanding of how the brain works at all. He never said it would cure autism, but that it could be useful. And if we ever understand enough of how the brain works to make this thing actually do anything, (even for average joe blogs), he may be right. he may be wrong too but he's not promising anything here so thats fine, he's saying it might be, not will be.

In practice, it is useless short to middle and probably even long term to cure such things. So even saying it might be is preposterous and arrogant if you ask me... 

[Energycore]

2 hours ago, Silentprototipe said:

Welp this is Elon so either he's saving us all or wasting money like on that hyperloop thing 

"either saving the world or wasting money" sounds like a wonderful lifestyle

[SenKa]

Elon always seems to stir up a shitstorm around here...

 

I say let the man dream. He works towards his goals until they reach such critical impossibility he runs out of money to do them. Maybe something good will come of it.

 

If he creates some raspberry pi nano-w looking thing you can stick in a human brain and cure various developmental and mental disorders without massive negative side effects, not only will he be able to retire immediately, his great-great grandkids will never work a day in their lives.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

34 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

I’ve always been the fifth wheel in everything my family does because my interests are so god damn left field. My poor communications skills also have massively impacted literally everything I do. I would give anything to not have autism and to just be a normal person. 

But people’s insistence on autism = normal will permanently fuck any chances of me being a normal person. It actually pisses me off. 

It must be said, however, than the overall outcome can be helped not just by "getting rid of it", but also by finding ways to manage it, also by others. Frankly, even without autism I would still recommend not being normal My point is, recognizing your desire to change your condition at least to some extent shouldn't be taken as an excuse on the "normies" part to do no effort at getting along better with you or anyone in your situation. (Just like being diagnosed with some disorder in the autistic spectrum doesn't automatically translate into an excuse for every assholish behaviour against others someone may incur in - having a condition doesn't mean everything one does is related to said condition).

Maybe there are ways for you to lead a happier life with autism, just not as easy as others may have it. And I hope so, as I tend to find Mr. Musk on the snakeoil side of thigns most of the time

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

IFrankly, even without autism I would still recommend not being normal

We’re all individuals.... I’m not!

 

 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, computers-are-cool said:

Maybe we should wait to see if people like the change before judging if it is a good or bad thing. Also if you had a disability you would not know if you would like to get rid of it or not because you would never have lived without it.

That is 100% false. If you asked a blind man if they would like to see more often than not they would say yes. If you asked a person born with nonfunctional legs and told them you could give them functioning legs more often than not they would want them. Just because you have lived your whole life with a disability doesn't mean you wouldn't know if you wanted to be rid if it. 

[Energycore]

1 hour ago, SenKa said:

Elon always seems to stir up a shitstorm around here...

 

I say let the man dream. He works towards his goals until they reach such critical impossibility he runs out of money to do them. Maybe something good will come of it.

 

If he creates some raspberry pi nano-w looking thing you can stick in a human brain and cure various developmental and mental disorders without massive negative side effects, not only will he be able to retire immediately, his great-great grandkids will never work a day in their lives.

And if he doesn't get there who cares, he's wasting his own money.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

In practice, it is useless short to middle and probably even long term to cure such things. So even saying it might be is preposterous and arrogant if you ask me... 

Well he is Elon musk.  You gotta expect some weird.  This one comes possibly dangerously close to hurting people though which is kind of a line IMHO.  I’m totally willing to smile and wave when he does something thing good for the world.  He’s probably trying to.  This one may not pan out though and people could get hurt.