Marvel Comics Star Wars accused of ripping off fan models and entirely copying fan images

[dalekphalm]

 

For those of you who don't know, EckhartsLadder is a YouTuber and Twitch Streamer who specializes in Star Wars Lore, but also does other lore videos like Halo and other franchises.

 

He makes a compelling argument that Marvel Comics is basically doing a really shit job at animating their recent Star Wars comic series. In particular, he takes some scenes from the new Allegiance comic:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Allegiance

 

in which, one of the illustrators outright copied a scene from an image of a Star Wars Model Maker (one of the images posted on his personal website/store - he makes custom 3D printed models for Star Wars). Basically, there's an image on the guys site of a bunch of 3D printed models, arranged in an interesting scene.

 

The Illustrator takes the scene from that image, and literally traces it into the comic. It's so bad that the fucking A-Wing still has the little plastic stand from the 3D printed model, in the comic book. Yes. That's right - a drawing of an A-Wing has a little stand coming out of the bottom because the illustrator copied a physical 3D printed model as his source.

 

So what do you guys think? This isn't the first accusation of Marvel Comic illustrators for Star Wars ripping off other people's models. On one hand: If you make a model of a copyrighted object, especially without permission, then legally, I think that Disney and Marvel Comics probably have the right to use that design, since you don't own the original design anyway and your work is technically an IP violation to begin with. But from a moral perspective, it's clearly wrong.

 

At the very least, if they want to use models created by fans, they should seek permission to do so (if not actually pay them for the design).

 

Disclaimer: Now, please do not turn this into an Anti-Disney Star Wars thread. I do not support that toxic shit, and will not tolerate it here either. You don't like Disney Star Wars? That's cool. Be respectful of those that still do.

[The1Dickens]

27 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

 

So what do you guys think? This isn't the first accusation of Marvel Comic illustrators for Star Wars ripping off other people's models. On one hand: If you make a model of a copyrighted object, especially without permission, then legally, I think that Disney and Marvel Comics probably have the right to use that design, since you don't own the original design anyway and your work is technically an IP violation to begin with. But from a moral perspective, it's clearly wrong.

 

This is interesting to me, but I'm at work, so I can't look into it as deep as I'd like. What I can say on the matter is that up until.... maybe Episode 7(?) There was a single person from LucasFilm (not even George) responsible for going over every single model, from every single game, and every single reference image, from every single drawing to sign off on it's validity and consistency throughout the Star Wars Universe. They now have 1 or 2 more people to assist in that role. This is according to an EA representative who we had come in to talk about the industry for a class at USC.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, The1Dickens said:

This is interesting to me, but I'm at work, so I can't look into it as deep as I'd like. What I can say on the matter is that up until.... maybe Episode 7(?) There was a single person from LucasFilm (not even George) responsible for going over every single model, from every single game, and every single reference image, from every single drawing to sign off on it's validity and consistency throughout the Star Wars Universe. They now have 1 or 2 more people to assist in that role. This is according to an EA representative who we had come in to talk about the industry for a class at USC.

It seems that either those people are overworked, incompetent, or they don't work on the Comic properties.

 

Especially since, even in the one example comic above: Alleigence, there are internal inconsistencies within the same comic book issue - there are two different scenes of the Calamari "Fleet" (which consists, oddly, of mostly non-Calamari ships), and in the first pane, it's obviously some variation of the MC80 design. in the other pane, the cruiser magically turns into an MC85 (which is incredibly distinctive and easy to tell apart from the MC80 variants). All the other craft depicted are the same, except the cruiser changes into an obviously different cruiser.

 

Then it turns out that the scene with the "different" (read: MC85) cruiser, is actually a direct rip-off of a screenshot from one of the Galaxies Edge rides where they show a video of a Resistance Fleet attacking a First Order base. At least they own the rights and properties of that screenshot, and all associated models and designs, but it really shows a lack of effort on the comic series.

 

The question is, who's fault is this? Is this Marvel Comics being lazy and pumping out comics with minimum efforts? Is this LucasFilm saying "you're not allowed to do anything crazy or new or special until after the movie comes out"? Is it something else? Are they overworked and just doing whatever they can to meet deadlines?

 

Of course, we don't know the answer, and likely won't for some time, if ever.

[The1Dickens]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

It seems that either those people are overworked, incompetent, or they don't work on the Comic properties.

Overworked: possible. Incompetent: highly unlikely, near impossible. Don't work on comic properties: This could be the case, or the comic artists could have gone the lazy route to meet deadlines. This is up in the air, and I can't be 100 per cent certain about the extent that these people work, only what was told to me (as they explained it was tedious to work with LucasFilms on Star Wars games because of this, but I can only take it at face value).

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

The question is, who's fault is this? Is this Marvel Comics being lazy and pumping out comics with minimum efforts? Is this LucasFilm saying "you're not allowed to do anything crazy or new or special until after the movie comes out"? Is it something else? Are they overworked and just doing whatever they can to meet deadlines?

The crazy thing, though, is that it's very likely a stack up of all of those options.

 

As far as "stealing fan-art", that is a gray area (in my eyes). I don't see it as being morally wrong if you, the fan artist, produce an exact 1:1 copy of a piece of original IP. Even the formation that was a screenshot of the collection of printable tokens, formations are not unique ideas, and the ships are already Star Wars IP. And it isn't like you, the fan artist, are losing money because of it, because then that would be a whole legal battle and a half, and good luck and god speed to whatever poor soul has to fight Disney in any legal battle. However, if the ships being copied were 100 per cent unique, designed to fit the 'visual design language' of the Star Wars universe, and then they were co-opted into the comics, there would be valid recourse, from my perspective.

 

All in all, I don't think it's fair to claim they "stole fan art", more that it seems pumping out as many comics as they are seems to be taking its toll on the teams behind them and putting out sub-par product. That is speaking on this video itself and the specifics put forth. He says he would produce a video of all the pieces of fan-art lifted if there's enough interest, which would certainly be interesting.

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Of course, we don't know the answer, and likely won't for some time, if ever.

Yeah, that's the frustrating part.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

14 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You don't like Disney Star Wars? That's cool. Be respectful of those that still do.

Why? 

 

Disney ruined a perfectly good franchise (and not just this one) to push their woke agenda.  Even Mark Hamill himself repeatedly slammed Disney for what they did to Star Wars. 

People who like that shitshow don't need respect, they need help.

 

-----

 

On-topic : tracing the stand of the 3D model is a whole new level of stupid.  It looks like the artist simply doesn't know what an A-wing looks like.  Any artist who knows the source material would have noticed that something was wrong. 

[Praesi]

Not liking this Disney Garbage is toxic? Interessting...

 

To the Topic. This Dude must be a little bit stupid. To copy the stand too. But theft is happening all the time, everywhere. 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Why? 

 

Disney ruined a perfectly good franchise (and not just this one) to push their woke agenda.  Even Mark Hamill himself repeatedly slammed Disney for what they did to Star Wars. 

Mark is entitled to his opinion - as is everyone. That’s not the problem. 
 

However my primary reason for the disclaimer is because whether you like Disney Star Wars or not is irrelevant to the discussion and will simply derail it at best. 

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

People who like that shitshow don't need respect, they need help.

It’s statements like this that are toxic. Thank you for proving my point. You’re taking a massive group of fans and saying “you’re not good enough” or “you’re not a “real” fan”. 
 

That’s not being respectful to those who still enjoy the franchise like myself. That’s insulting every one of us.

 

If you want to discuss the failings of Disney (in another thread because that’s off topic), I advise you to try and be more respectful to the fans who haven’t joined your camp. 

 

Knock that shit off and save it for somewhere else. 

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

-----

 

On-topic : tracing the stand of the 3D model is a whole new level of stupid.  It looks like the artist simply doesn't know what an A-wing looks like.  Any artist who knows the source material would have noticed that something was wrong. 

Indeed. Some of the other instances I could understand and even overlook. But the A-Wing is just baffling. 

1 hour ago, Praesi said:

Not liking this Disney Garbage is toxic? Interessting...

You can not like it all you want. That’s cool. But here is not the place to discuss it. Open a new thread with a different topic if you want to. 

1 hour ago, Praesi said:

To the Topic. This Dude must be a little bit stupid. To copy the stand too. But theft is happening all the time, everywhere. 

Definitely. But to so blatantly get away with it? Just crazy. 

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

credit the makers. give them a signed copy and a mounted proof page. that's the least they should do ._.

 

EDIT: but to actually do them right? invite them to the prop shop or studio for a tour and discuss opportunities (regarding models). but that's not up to me after all

 

I would go even farther - pay them for their work. Marvel doesn't even have to pay them much, since they're essentially just paying for the designs and scenes, and not for the final product. But get consent and pay them.

 

Or, you know, put enough actual resources into the comics so that the illustrators have time to create their own designs (or rip them off from official sources, but even that's just lazy, unless they're reproducing that exact scene in-canon).

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

yeah definitely. the fact that this bears repeating is a little worrying for anyone trying to break in to the industry (including elsewhere)

Agreed - there have been separate instances where people have accused Star Wars of ripping off some of EC Henry's (an excellent modeler and animator who has a YouTube channel) models and designs. He himself isn't convinced, since it's entirely possible to come up with very similar designs independently.

 

But in the case I linked above, it's quite clear they are ripping off other people (I mean, the A-Wing is so indefensible that it hurts), so why not him too?

[steelo]

Hope there are some lawsuits. You can bet your house if a fan profited off of a design Marvel created, they would take them to court.

[Sauron]

18 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

It's so bad that the fucking A-Wing still has the little plastic stand from the 3D printed model, in the comic book.

That's so outlandish it makes me think it may have been done on purpose... unless the illustrator didn't know what parts of the model are actually pieces of the fighter...?

4 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Disney ruined a perfectly good franchise (and not just this one) to push their woke agenda.  Even Mark Hamill himself repeatedly slammed Disney for what they did to Star Wars. 

Yeah, except Hamill didn't say anything about "woke agendas" because if you think having women and asians in a movie is an "agenda" then you're probably a reactionary.

 

I guess there are only two genders - male and P O L I T I C A L

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, steelo said:

Hope there are some lawsuits. You can bet your house if a fan profited off of a design Marvel created, they would take them to court.

Doubtful. On what grounds would they sue? Their original fan designs are already violations of copyright unless they had written permission from LucasFilm - and if they did, that permission very likely included some clause about how LucasFilm retains all rights.

 

The only fan-made designs that would be permissible under copyright law would be parodies and criticisms, for the most part.

 

So sure, I guess they could try and sue, and then LucasFilm would just countersue them.

 

And profiting off of a design doesn't matter (well, it does, but only in the judgement stage about how much of a fee they'll have to pay). If you create an original Sci-Fi space ship design, and I steal that design and make my own version of it (or 3D print it, or put it into a video game, etc), you can sue me over that, regardless of whether I made any money or not.

[steelo]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Doubtful. On what grounds would they sue? Their original fan designs are already violations of copyright unless they had written permission from LucasFilm - and if they did, that permission very likely included some clause about how LucasFilm retains all rights.

 

The only fan-made designs that would be permissible under copyright law would be parodies and criticisms, for the most part.

 

So sure, I guess they could try and sue, and then LucasFilm would just countersue them.

 

And profiting off of a design doesn't matter (well, it does, but only in the judgement stage about how much of a fee they'll have to pay). If you create an original Sci-Fi space ship design, and I steal that design and make my own version of it (or 3D print it, or put it into a video game, etc), you can sue me over that, regardless of whether I made any money or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the fan creations would not be violations of copyright law unless they were profiting off of them somehow. Heck, I have homemade models of the USS Enterprise I've posted. 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, steelo said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but the fan creations would not be violations of copyright law unless they were profiting off of them somehow.

Entirely incorrect. It's an "unspoken" rule that franchises typically respect, but of which they don't have to.

1 minute ago, steelo said:

Heck, I have homemade models of the USS Enterprise I've posted. 

That's cool - it's very rare that franchises will actually go after "fan-art" (and that includes homemade models of the USS Enterprise), since it typically pisses off their fans for little benefit.

 

But the law is 100% behind them. CBS could sue the crap out of you right now for that homemade model, if they wanted to. Fortunately, they don't.

 

Copyright law dictates that the copyright holder has exclusive rights in distributing derivative works (that means copies of existing designs, and designs that are extensions of existing designs, including logical extensions like new classes of ships that use distinctive features that are obviously part of existing copyright - eg: you could create your own "Star Trek" ship, if you didn't call it Star Trek, and it didn't use any features that are obviously Star Trek (eg: you can't use the same warp nacels as any previous ship used, can't use the Starfleet insignia, etc).

[steelo]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Entirely incorrect. It's an "unspoken" rule that franchises typically respect, but of which they don't have to.

That's cool - it's very rare that franchises will actually go after "fan-art" (and that includes homemade models of the USS Enterprise), since it typically pisses off their fans for little benefit.

 

But the law is 100% behind them. CBS could sue the crap out of you right now for that homemade model, if they wanted to. Fortunately, they don't.

 

Copyright law dictates that the copyright holder has exclusive rights in distributing derivative works (that means copies of existing designs, and designs that are extensions of existing designs, including logical extensions like new classes of ships that use distinctive features that are obviously part of existing copyright - eg: you could create your own "Star Trek" ship, if you didn't call it Star Trek, and it didn't use any features that are obviously Star Trek (eg: you can't use the same warp nacels as any previous ship used, can't use the Starfleet insignia, etc).

If you go on youtube, there are tons of fan made ST and SW movies but they do, for instance remove the starfleet insignia, etc. Some of them are really well made, but feel a little 'off' 

[dalekphalm]

8 minutes ago, steelo said:

If you go on youtube, there are tons of fan made ST and SW movies but they do, for instance remove the starfleet insignia, etc. Some of them are really well made, but feel a little 'off' 

Yep, and that's how they "get around" the legalities. But even in those instances, if it's reminiscent enough that a casual viewer would confuse it as "Star Trek", then it's likely still a copyright violation.

 

And both Star Wars and Star Trek in particular are really picky about fan-made content like fanfilms. See the whole Axanar thing - and Star Wars Theory had to negotiate an actual license with LucasFilm when he made his Darth Vader fanfilm (and he's not allowed to profit off it at all - not even donations or sponsors - he has to pay for it out of pocket and episode one cost him like $100,000 USD).

[LAwLz]

57 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yeah, except Hamill didn't say anything about "woke agendas" because if you think having women and asians in a movie is an "agenda" then you're probably a reactionary.

 

I guess there are only two genders - male and P O L I T I C A L

I don't think Mark Hamill said anything about the woke agenda, but Star Wars definitely have it.

You have to be more blind than the Daredevil to have missed how much Disney is trying to position Star Wars as some "female empowerment"" brand.

 

It's extremely obvious not just from watching the movies, but Kathleen Kennedy has even worn a shirt that says "The Force is Female".

 

And before someone says "that was just a Nike campaign", it's pretty obvious that Kathleen wore the shirt because it also applies to Star Wars. It's not a coincidence that the president of Lucasfilm wears a shirt that says "the force" on it.

 

 

And no, before it gets brought up, people don't dislike Star Wars now because "people hate female characters". People have had no problem with good female characters in movies before. Leia, Sarah Connor, Hermione, Ripley, Katniss Everdeen, "The Bride", Mia Wallace, Princess Fiona, Eowyn (not a protagonist but has a major role and story, and even hypes up the whole "women > men" part) and even new movies like Wonder Woman and Alita have been hits.

Solo got bad reception too, despite being about a white male.

People like good characters and movies, and people dislike shitty characters and shitty movies, regardless of gender. It's as simple as that.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think Mark Hamill said anything about the woke agenda, but Star Wars definitely have it.

You have to be more blind than the dare devil to have missed how much Disney is trying to position Star Wars as some shallow "female empowerment"" brand.

 

It's extremely obvious not just from watching the movies (all women are perfect and the only people with flaws and do mistakes are men), but Kathleen Kennedy has even worn a shirt that says "The Force is Female".

 

And before someone says "that was just a Nike campaign", it's pretty obvious that Kathleen wore the shirt because it also applies to Star Wars. It's not a coincidence that the president of Lucasfilm wears a shirt that says "the force" on it.

I think you and others are reading way too much into it.

Yeah, they're pushing female empowerment? So what? Who cares? The OT had exactly one primary female character in it until the last movie, which added a second one. Granted, Leia is a badass character - no doubt about it. But Star Wars in the OT was not exactly super inclusive on that front.

 

Them deciding they want to make sure there are more women in Star Wars? That's awesome, not a bad thing.

 

And the female characters aren't perfect (though granted, Rey in the movies certainly is "more" perfect than other characters in the new movies). In fact, the new Disney Canon is even exploring Rey in that area right now with the comic issues and novels in between Ep 8 and 9, where she struggles to use the force unless a situation is extreme and dire, among other things.

 

Anyway, aside from that, off topic, so please stop.

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Yeah, they're pushing female empowerment? So what? Who cares?

Once something gets distracting and takes you out of the film because it is trying to shove political messages in your face, it is bad.

It's the same with the casino scene in the last Jedi. It was such an obvious message shoehorned into the movie for no reason that it took me out of it.

 

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But Star Wars in the OT was not exactly super inclusive on that front.

And why does this matter?

 

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Them deciding they want to make sure there are more women in Star Wars? That's awesome, not a bad thing.

I don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's not distracting, but I don't see how it is a good thing either.

Like I said in my previous post (which I edited), just make a good movie and people will not give two shits about the gender of the character. The gender of a character should not matter. You shouldn't say it's awesome that Star Wars is trying to be "more inclusive" because it shouldn't matter. That's at least my opinion.

 

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

In fact, the new Disney Canon is even exploring Rey in that area right now with the comic issues and novels in between Ep 8 and 9, where she struggles to use the force unless a situation is extreme and dire, among other things.

I only judge the movies based on the movies. In my eyes you can't fix issues with a film by releasing a novel that "explains" why things are the way they are. I evaluate the movies on their own basis, and so far I have been extremely disappointed with all of them except The Force awakens, which I thought was alright.

 

 

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Anyway, aside from that, off topic, so please stop.

I want to explain my position first. You can't post something along the lines of "no you're wrong" and then deny me a response to further elaborate on my views.

 

Anyway, it feels like Disney is milking Star Wars a lot so I am not surprised that they are pushing and taking shortcuts to get as much merch out there as possible. I feel bad for the creator wo got ripped off, but then again i guess the creator themselves "ripped off" Disney to begin with.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Just now, LAwLz said:

how much Disney is trying to position Star Wars as some shallow "female empowerment"" brand.

Not just Star Wars.  Thor comes to mind, as does Captain Marvell (both on screen and in Brie Larson's anti-men comments).  And don't get me started on the new Terminator movie or I'll go on a 10.000+ word off-topic rant. 

Disney can't even come up with good franchises or characters, they have to either directly replace the male characters with females or kill them off first only to have the franchise suddenly revolve around some Mary Sue character. 

 

But as Sauron showed, if you have the audacity to point that out you're a reactionary.  Well fuck that, I'll happily be one then.  Didn't stop me from enjoying Alita recently, a film with a female lead played by a Hispanic actress.  The difference is that it didn't try to push this "feminism yay! Men bad!" agenda down people's throat like Disney's garbage does. 

[Sauron]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You have to be more blind than the Daredevil to have missed how much Disney is trying to position Star Wars as some "female empowerment" brand.

Was it "male empowerment" with sarcastic quotes when Hamill or Christensen were the main protagonist?

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Yeah, they're pushing female empowerment? So what? Who cares?

They care, because they don't like it when someone suggests women can fulfill a heroic role in a movie. It's not like there aren't prominent men in the cast, either - but since the main protagonist is a woman, suddenly the movies are following some "woke agenda" that pushes such preposterous ideas as "women are people" and "Asians exist".

 

This is the same kind of argument that was being made against Leia being a powerful character (for the time) in A New Hope, back when most women in sci-fi or fantasy were strictly there to be fought over by the protagonist and the bad guys as opposed to having an active role in the struggle. Oh, and what about the absolute outrage that followed when Kirk kissed Uhura on screen? It's the same every time, media tries to be more inclusive and reactionaries lose their minds. The only difference is that in the last few years reactionaries have been recruiting among "nerds", which has poisoned the well in previously progressive fandoms.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Once something gets distracting and takes you out of the film because it is trying to shove political messages in your face, it is bad.

It's the same with the casino scene in the last Jedi. It was such an obvious message shoehorned into the movie for no reason that it took me out of it.

Forgive me, but it never once distracted me or pulled me out of the film. And I don't feel like Disney is trying to shove a political message down my face. If you feel that way, then I sympathize, but I don't agree.

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

And why does this matter?

Why does that matter? Because millions of Star Wars fans are female, and they like to have cool role models and characters that they can more relate to. Having just one (Leia - or two if you count Mon Mothma who barely got any screen time) is okay, but could be better.

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's not distracting, but I don't see how it is a good thing either.

It's a good thing because 

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Like I said in my previous post (which I edited), just make a good movie and people will not give two shits about the gender of the character. The gender of a character should not matter. You shouldn't say it's awesome that Star Wars is trying to be "more inclusive" because it shouldn't matter. That's at least my opinion.

The gender of a character shouldn't matter, but when you have a franchise that was predominantly male for a long time, it's nice to get something new (read: female) in there every now and then.

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I only judge the movies based on the movies. In my eyes you can't fix issues with a film by releasing a novel that "explains" why things are the way they are. I evaluate the movies on their own basis, and so far I have been extremely disappointed with all of them except The Force awakens, which I thought was alright.

That's your prerogative to do, but the extended Canon exists, and it's totally acceptable to use that to expand upon the lore. Especially if that leads into the last movie.

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I want to explain my position first. You can't post something along the lines of "no you're wrong" and then deny me a response to further elaborate on my views.

I'm not saying you're wrong - though I do disagree with you. I'm saying we shouldn't even be having this discussion. It's off topic. You want to elaborate on your views about Disney Star Wars? Go create a thread and let the discussions begin.

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Anyway, it feels like Disney is milking Star Wars a lot so I am not surprised that they are pushing and taking shortcuts to get as much merch out there as possible. I feel bad for the creator wo got ripped off, but then again i guess the creator themselves "ripped off" Disney to begin with.

This is true in both cases. I won't deny that Disney is milking Star Wars - because why wouldn't they? (From a business perspective) - I do think that Kennedy loves Star Wars, but there are a lot of interests there beyond her too.

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Not just Star Wars.  Thor comes to mind, as does Captain Marvell (both on screen and in Brie Larson's anti-men comments).  And don't get me started on the new Terminator movie or I'll go on a 10.000+ word off-topic rant. 

Captain Marvel was a good movie - damn fun adventure film. I haven't seen the latest one, but the trailers look interesting, if nothing else.

4 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Disney can't even come up with good franchises or characters, they have to either directly replace the male characters with females or kill them off first only to have the franchise suddenly revolve around some Mary Sue character. 

Star Wars doesn't revolve around Rey exclusively. If you think so, you're not paying attention.

4 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

But as Sauron showed, if you have the audacity to point that out you're a reactionary.  Well fuck that, I'll happily be one then.  Didn't stop me from enjoying Alita recently, a film with a female lead played by a Hispanic actress.  The difference is that it didn't try to push this "feminism yay! Men bad!" agenda down people's throat like Disney's garbage does. 

Feminism, in the sense that equality for men and women is a good thing, is good. Star Wars isn't promoting "men are bad", and if you think so, then I don't think we can continue a discussion. There are plenty of "good" male characters in the recent Star Wars movies.

 

Okay @Captain Chaos and @LAwLz, you've had your say. This is off topic - return to the topic at hand, or create a new one to further your discussions if you must.

[Sauron]

10 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

But as Sauron showed, if you have the audacity to point that out you're a reactionary.  Well fuck that, I'll happily be one then.

That's not how it works my dude. If you spout every single trite talking point as every other reactionary, that is what makes you a reactionary, not my pointing it out.

 

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and tastes like a duck then as far as I'm concerned it's either a duck or something so similar that the difference is irrelevant.

 

Also you have to love the absolute hypocrisy of complaining about this and then immediately blurting out "woke agenda" when a movie dares to be mildly progressive. In a series that is literally about fighting space nazis, no less.

14 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Not just Star Wars.  Thor comes to mind, as does Captain Marvell (both on screen and in Brie Larson's anti-men comments).  And don't get me started on the new Terminator movie or I'll go on a 10.000+ word off-topic rant. 

Disney can't even come up with good franchises or characters, they have to either directly replace the male characters with females or kill them off first only to have the franchise suddenly revolve around some Mary Sue character.

Here we have exhibit A, the same few tired "points" that always get thrown around without so much as an original thought in sight, even though they've been thoroughly debunked over and over. You didn't come here to have a conversation about this, you came to say your piece and ignore any counterargument, then complain about being identified for what you are.

 

You get to rant and name call, but as soon as I do it it's no longer ok, is it? What's the matter, you aren't comfortable arguing with someone who won't take your point at face value? Well I'm sorry, after reading the same bullshit so many times I'm not about to give you the benefit of the doubt. I know exactly where you heard these points and what circles they get brought up in, you don't get to play dumb with me.

[Anomnomnomaly]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

The only fan-made designs that would be permissible under copyright law would be parodies and criticisms, for the most part.

 

Fair use for non profit is the only legally defensible answer to that argument... if they got paid by a comic dept owned by disney for a piece of work that they copied for personal use that's owned by disney... Then they'd have grounds for being sued themselves.

 

A simple acknowledgement that the scene was inspired by said person is all that could be done here.

 

 

Also.. regarding your comments about anyone who would dare to say anything about their dislike of what has been done to the SW franchise... calling people out for 'toxic shit'  is just as disrespectful as what you accuse them off... So you might also want to 'knock that shit off' as you put it