Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
spartaman64

Gamefreak lies about not reusing models in pokemon sword and shield (spoilers)

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

im upset not because i hate gamefreak or pokemon quite the opposite. i love pokemon and want it to succeed and seeing gamefreak make these questionable decisions that might make the new pokemon into a bad game makes me upset

 

Does the quality of the assets or availability of Pokemon really change how the actual game will play?

 

Geez, how did we survive up until now without 3D models and 800+ Pokemon?

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

 

Does the quality of the assets or availability of Pokemon really change how the actual game will play?

 

Geez, how did we survive up until now without 3D models and 800+ Pokemon?

We survived pretty well actually, considering I don't believe in the past gf said one thing and then seemingly did the opposite of what they said. Am I correct in assuming you believe I'm in outrage camp?

Spoiler

Meanwhile I'm not angry, just disappointed.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, comander said:

Let's do some basic math. 

You have 800 pokemon. 
There are then 64000 combinations you could have in battle. 
There are 100 levels...
There are then 640,000,000 combinations. 

Each pokemon can learn an average of 100 moves...

There are then 6,400,000,000,000 combinations. For 1v1 battles. This doesn't include 1v6; 3v3, etc. 
It also doesn't account for doubles battles, triples, reverse battles, gimmicks like dynamax, megaevolution or special moves... 


Honestly, it's a HUGE HUGE mess to QA, even with a lot of automation tools. 

Cutting to a smaller size can result in a MUCH MUCH more polished experience. 

This includes in-game and competitive. 

 

 


                                                                                    .:. Taking us further, and further from entropy [ .:.

Spoiler

                                             How to free up space on your SSD                                                    

Spoiler
Spoiler

                                                                        Kymatica Revision 3.5

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600k @ 4.3GHz Motherboard: ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Ti ~ TU116-400-A1 ~ (OC 6G 2x Windforce) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB @ 2133MHz @ 9-10-11-28 SSD: Crucial M500 240GB (OS/Programs/Path of Exile/Grim Dawn) HDD1: WD 1TB Blue (Diablo III/Other Games/Storage/Media) HDD2: Seagate Barracuda 7.2K 500GB (Backup) HDD3: WD Caviar 7.2K 400GB (Backup) HDD4: WD Elements TB External WDBWLG0040HBK-NESN (Backup/Additional Storage)  CPU Cooling: Corsair Hydro Series H100 in Pull (w/ 2x Delta FFB1212EH 120mm) Case Fans: Noctua NF F12 industrialPPC-2000 (x3 120mm) PSU: Seasonic X-Series X-1050 1050W Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 Monitor: Samsung C27F396 Curved 27-Inch Freesync Monitor Keyboard: Cooler Master Storm Trigger-Z (Cherry MX Brown Switches) Mouse: Roccat Kone XTD Mousepad: Corsair MM350 Premium Audio: Logitech X 2.1 Speaker System Headset: Corsair VOID Stereo Gaming Headset (w/ Sennheiser 3D G4ME 7.1 Surround Amplifier) OS: Windows 10 Pro (Version 1903)

 

                                                                                                       

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

 

Does the quality of the assets or availability of Pokemon really change how the actual game will play?

 

Geez, how did we survive up until now without 3D models and 800+ Pokemon?

i dont really care about the animations but i care about the pokemon. this is the first pokemon game where i cant catch them all. if it was for them to make a better quality game then ill still be sad but at least theres a good reason for it but if it was for them to cut corners then i dont even know what to say

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, comander said:

Let's do some basic math. 

You have 800 pokemon. 
There are then 64000 combinations you could have in battle. 
There are 100 levels...
There are then 640,000,000 combinations. 

Each pokemon can learn an average of 100 moves...

There are then 6,400,000,000,000 combinations. For 1v1 battles. This doesn't include 1v6; 3v3, etc. 
It also doesn't account for doubles battles, triples, reverse battles, gimmicks like dynamax, megaevolution or special moves... 


Honestly, it's a HUGE HUGE mess to QA, even with a lot of automation tools. 

Cutting to a smaller size can result in a MUCH MUCH more polished experience. 

This includes in-game and competitive. 

levels dont really have an affect on the animation afaik and all other past games just have a generic hurt animation for the pokemon taking the hit and generic up into the air etc animations and from the animations i saw they work in this way also but i guess we wont really know until the game releases. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i dont really care about the animations but i care about the pokemon. this is the first pokemon game where i cant catch them all.

You couldn't catch them all anyway without transferring various Pokemon over from other games. If I can't catch them all with just the games in that generation, it's a moot point. Besides they dropped that slogan years ago.

 

6 minutes ago, CyanideInsanity said:

We survived pretty well actually, considering I don't believe in the past gf said one thing and then seemingly did the opposite of what they said. Am I correct in assuming you believe I'm in outrage camp?

I misclicked on you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

You couldn't catch them all anyway without transferring various Pokemon over from other games. If I can't catch them all with just the games in that generation, it's a moot point. Besides they dropped that slogan years ago.

 

I misclicked on you.

I see. Sorry but thats a 50 DKP Minus.

Spoiler

just memeing if you don't know it

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

You couldn't catch them all anyway without transferring various Pokemon over from other games. If I can't catch them all with just the games in that generation, it's a moot point. Besides they dropped that slogan years ago.

 

I misclicked on you.

GTS and i do have a lot of the other games

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

GTS and i do have a lot of the other games

I mean, I don't see what's so fun about transferring Pokemon back and forth just to get an in-game certificate that says "congratulations."

 

But if you do, more power to you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I mean, I don't see what's so fun about transferring Pokemon back and forth just to get an in-game certificate that says "congratulations."

That's not.

 

But having a team of 6 different legendaries is.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I mean, I don't see what's so fun about transferring Pokemon back and forth just to get an in-game certificate that says "congratulations."

 

But if you do, more power to you.

There is more than just being able to use them. If diamond and pearl remakes are next, there's a good chance they won't be compatible at all, or just severely limited. This would be the first case of same generation games having huge discrepancies between them. Previously only new forms, moves, or items would restricted, but with like half the sinnoh-dex not existing they'll probably cut all connectivity outside of gts trading game applicable pokemon at best.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CyanideInsanity said:

There is more than just being able to use them. If diamond and pearl remakes are next, there's a good chance they won't be compatible at all, or just severely limited. This would be the first case of same generation games having huge discrepancies between them. Previously only new forms, moves, or items would restricted, but with like half the sinnoh-dex not existing they'll probably cut all connectivity outside of gts trading game applicable pokemon at best.

This is the first time they've done it and it's not like patches don't exist.

 

I mean honestly, when you have 1000+ Pokemon (supposedly), something's going to have to give at some point when your company doesn't have a lot of people to begin with. Why doesn't GameFreak hire more people or hand the torch to someone else? I dunno. But this is what they have to work with.

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

levels dont really have an affect on the animation afaik and all other past games just have a generic hurt animation for the pokemon taking the hit and generic up into the air etc animations and from the animations i saw they work in this way also but i guess we wont really know until the game releases. 

I'm referring more to random crashes and glitches in battles. 

 

QA is hard. 

 

I probably remember RGB a bit too well. 


R9 3900x; 64GB RAM | RTX 2080 | 1.5TB Optane P4800x

1TB ADATA XPG Pro 8200 SSD | 2TB Micron 1100 SSD
HD800 + SCHIIT VALI | Topre Realforce Keyboard

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Why doesn't GameFreak hire more people or hand the torch to someone else? I dunno. But this is what they have to work with.

If Sword and Shield is a critical flop I suspect that will happen... But I don't expect that.

It has been said in an interview that at GameFreak they have 2 teams (I don't remember if they were like an A-team and B-team, but I believe that was implied). One team works on Pokemon, the other one on their upcoming game (Town).

 

The budget figures for Pokemon are also unclear, but it supposedly is a lot less than other triple-A games have for a budget. (it's 'only' in the 10's of millions of dollars allegedly).

 

It seems like a deliberate choice to limit the development of Pokemon; not a matter of money or people.


I apologize for the way I am. If my post seemed rude, that was not my intention. Just my ineptness in forming a nice coherent message.

"those times will never come back :("

"I wish I could find a way to end the pain, other than the way I keep thinking of"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mira Yurizaki said:

Why doesn't GameFreak hire more people or hand the torch to someone else?

 

About 27 minutes in, he talks about the breakdown of profit in the Pokemon franchise, the games aren't the huge sellers, but because estimated dev cost is low, the profit margin is large. They also have other games they make, so I'd imagine it's a combination of they don't think it'll be benefitial in the long run and they're turning some of that profit into the budget for games outside of the Pokemon franchise.

 

And even if they did hire more people, would they have had enough time to train them up and release a better product on a time table that affects the entire franchise?

 


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

This is the first time they've done it and it's not like patches don't exist.

 

I mean honestly, when you have 1000+ Pokemon (supposedly), something's going to have to give at some point when your company doesn't have a lot of people to begin with. Why doesn't GameFreak hire more people or hand the torch to someone else? I dunno. But this is what they have to work with.

They could add them in an update, but why do that when you could encourage people to by both? So far the only thing on that we have is basically "no comment". https://nintendoeverything.com/game-freak-says-no-decision-made-about-adding-pokemon-not-in-galar-pokedex-to-sword-shield-with-updates/

 

Perhaps its a bit dramatic, but the way I feel is about this is basically game freak can't compete with pokemon as mobile titles, and the mobile games will continue to bring in tons of money as mobile games do. And judging by how mario kart tour is, I don't think nintendo is averse to jumping on the mobile hypetrain. After all, it prints money.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

And even if they did hire more people, would they have had enough time to train them up and release a better product on a time table that affects the entire franchise?

According to the Mythical Man Month, no, not really.

 

7 minutes ago, CyanideInsanity said:

Perhaps its a bit dramatic, but the way I feel is about this is basically game freak can't compete with pokemon as mobile titles, and the mobile games will continue to bring in tons of money as mobile games do. And judging by how mario kart tour is, I don't think nintendo is averse to jumping on the mobile hypetrain. After all, it prints money.

But this isn't really a contest about making money. Besides, Game Freak owns 1/3 of the Pokemon IP, so anything Pokemon related gets funneled back to them at some point. It's just that Nintendo is very offhands with them (GameFreak is technically a third party company) and Game Freak seems to prefer remaining to be a smaller company.

 

Also here's another point, GameFreak wasn't responsible for the modeling of Pokemon, that credit goes to another 1/3 stakeholder of the Pokemon IP, Creatures, Inc. And from the looks of things, they have been since Pokemon first went 3D on Pokemon Stadium

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

im upset not because i hate gamefreak or pokemon quite the opposite. i love pokemon and want it to succeed and seeing gamefreak make these questionable decisions that might make the new pokemon into a bad game makes me upset

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/a7rrmy/a_letter_to_blizzard_entertainment/

 

Sort of like what this guy feels for blizzard except its nintendo/gamefreak in my case PS and i dont like the broncos

So whats your issue with the game?

 

Just that it doesnt have every single pokemon?

 

Theres too damn many pokemon now anyway imo. If they have a wide variety from every generation that should be good enough. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, RonnieOP said:

So whats your issue with the game?

 

Just that it doesnt have every single pokemon?

 

Theres too damn many pokemon now anyway imo. If they have a wide variety from every generation that should be good enough. 

 

 

it doesnt have some of the pokemon that i like and their reason for doing it seems like bs

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

This is a big deal... why?

Gran Turismo 6 was using models dating back to 2001 when it came out. It’s a known fact that Valve reuses models from game to game. Dunno why it’s such a big deal here.

Agree, and it's not as though the models used for the 3DS were exactly low quality. The model for Primarina hits about 10k polygons which is quite decent (the 3DS pushes polys pretty well, fillrate on the other hand...) I was under the expectation the models made were for the long haul.

 

Given the slow paced and grindy nature of Pokemon games in general, I feel focus should be placed on fast performance and short loading times over overly complex models. The game engine certainly shouldn't be adding to the grind.


The pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Forever in search of my reason to exist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

"We're on a time crunch and we don't have to do a half-assed job" is a BS excuse?

they never said they were in a time crunch they said they wanted to do all new models and quality animations. the new models excuse is bs and the animations we will have to see on release if the person had battle animations turned off. and they managed in the past so why do they need to throw out 55% of the pokemon now

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

According to the Mythical Man Month, no, not really.

 

But this isn't really a contest about making money. Besides, Game Freak owns 1/3 of the Pokemon IP, so anything Pokemon related gets funneled back to them at some point. It's just that Nintendo is very offhands with them (GameFreak is technically a third party company) and Game Freak seems to prefer remaining to be a smaller company.

 

Also here's another point, GameFreak wasn't responsible for the modeling of Pokemon, that credit goes to another 1/3 stakeholder of the Pokemon IP, Creatures, Inc. And from the looks of things, they have been since Pokemon first went 3D on Pokemon Stadium

Sure, but my issue is with the way things are going I don't see future games being what I'd like to see. IMO its all downhill from here. And on the models, yeah I forgot about that, but its semantics to the point at hand. As I first said, allegedly there was talk of new models, and then animations quality being the reason for cutting pokemon, which is a very hard sell with whats been shown.

 

Its the same as how bethesda's recent games have changed my opinion on their future titles. I don't feel TeS 6 will be a particularly great game, and not because of monetization. Starfield could fare a little better as its a new IP rather than a new game in an existing series, but even them I'm skeptical.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Agree, and it's not as though the models used for the 3DS were exactly low quality. The model for Primarina hits about 10k polygons which is quite decent (the 3DS pushes polys pretty well, fillrate on the other hand...) I was under the expectation the models made were for the long haul.

And in the given context, 10 grand in the polygon department for most Pokemon models is pretty good. They don't need massive detail at all, and anything that could use smoothing off could probably be done with tessellation. 

Again with the Gran Turismo comparison, the Premium cars in GT5 and 6 have polygon counts far exceeding what would be rendered on the screen in any Pokemon game at any given time, while the Standard cars have polygon counts around the 4000 mark, far below what'll likely be many Pokemon models and something that'd look very out of place in the given context of GT5 and 6.

Not to mention, it seems like a case of "how many models are reused?". If it's a small minority of models, who cares? They still fit and look good in the given context, so why complain?


Local asshole and VHS collector. Less than avid Team Fortress 2 player.

@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie | Jake x Brendan

 

moo floof enthusiast, pm me moo rabbit pics

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×