New Macbook pro announced with new dimensions

[Sorenson]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

With Apple moving away from 32bit and OpenGL, they're at fault for the already slim selection getting cut significantly.

Use bootcamp. problem solved. I'm not sure why this is "completely impractical" all it takes is a reboot and holding the option key. 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

The comparable XPS15 also demands a premium for the form factor. A comparable Dell Inspiron Gaming laptop costs $1600. And no, the """build quality""" of a MacBook doesn't justify the premium.

I didn't say the build quality justified the premium, I said better build quality costs more. There is a premium for Apple, but it is not as large as people pretend. 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

External fitment is pretty average, and internal design (largely the CPU+GPU combination with the thermal solution) is subpar.

Apple's external fitment is industry leading. Its crossest competitor is Microsoft (have you seen the premiums on those devices?) IDK how you can even argue this. The CPU+GPU thermal solution has not been adequately tested yet (it is redesigned) so you do not know this. 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

No, thin and lights with internals too hot for their chassis and cooling solutions thermal throttle. The MacBook being a consistant offender.

 

Whereas the Dell Inspiron won't thermal throttle. Nor would most gaming laptops.

thing and light gaming laptops known for thermal throttling: 

• aero 15x
• MSI GS65 (its 2080 max q performs about the same as some laptops with the 2070 max q)
• Razerblade 15 

The dell inspiron laptop you're comparing the MacBook pro to is much thicker, has much worse battery life, and has complaints about the gpu throttling. 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Baseless and incorrect assumption. I use a '17 MBP 15, partially for work and partially for a portable machine that mixes well with iDevices.

No, it's not. There are no considerations for gaming made with the MacBook Pro. I say this from experience of gaming on my MBP. It's a challenge I quite enjoy, but there is no practicality in trying it.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it is not the best gaming machine but is capable of it for you to understand that I am not recommending it as a gaming machine. All I am saying is that if you want to play games on it, it is capable of doing it. 

 

Find a laptop that is in the same form factor, with similar battery life, with a similar display, and similar performance that is significantly cheaper then the 16" macbook pro. I feel like you have already made up your mind about this device before its even been tested. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Sorenson said:

I'm not sure how many times I have to say it is not the best gaming machine but is capable of it for you to understand that I am not recommending it as a gaming machine.

Maybe try rereading my posts.

 

Because I explicitly said that the MacBook lineup is not a good GAMING machine. That's it.

2 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Apple's external fitment is industry leading.

It was, 10 years ago.

 

Not anymore.

2 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Its crossest competitor is Microsoft (have you seen the premiums on those devices?) 

Microsoft's lineup uses touchscreens and high end active pens. That's where the premium on the Surface lineup comes from.

 

3 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Use bootcamp. problem solved. I'm not sure why this is "completely impractical" all it takes is a reboot and holding the option key. 

 

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Because you're paying a premium for OSX, and then paying for Windows on top of that, to have a system that will thermal throttle, restricts eGPU capability, require adapters for any wired peripherals like mice, and either run the GPU at a resolution that it's underpowered for or at a wierd downscale.

 

4 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

has complaints about the gpu throttling. 

Toms' Hardware praises the current models for thermals.

 

8 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

MSI GS65 (its 2080 max q performs about the same as some laptops with the 2070 max q)

As far as I can find, low boost clocks (not thermal throttling) are due to the stock fan curve balancing thermals with noise. But, unlike Apple, MSI doesn't try to prevent manual control of the fans, they include a utility to actually do it (as well as limit the CPU performance). The issue isn't there with the other included fan profiles.

 

15 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

I feel like you have already made up your mind about this device before its even been tested. 

Again, incorrect. As already pointed out earlier in the thread, the 16" does better than the older 15", but it still redlines on thermals with the base model.

[DrMacintosh]

41 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Find a laptop that is in the same form factor, with similar battery life, with a similar display, and similar performance that is significantly cheaper then the 16" macbook pro. I feel like you have already made up your mind about this device before its even been tested. 

There actually has been some performance testing under macOS. Unfortunately Bootcamp Navi drivers are not yet available from Apple. 
 

In short though, the 5500M is a beast of a card. 
 

[DrMacintosh]

37 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

As already pointed out earlier in the thread, the 16" does better than the older 15", but it still redlines on thermals with the base model.

While gaining increased performance over the 2019 15”. Meaning that if users wish to enable manual fan control, they will see improved thermals. 
 

Apple prefers running hot and silent over cool and loud. This 16” MBP is the best cooled MacBook Pro they’ve ever made all specs considered. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

While gaining increased performance over the 2019 15”.

But not over many other laptops. And gaining power over the 15" is not a huge accomplishment, as the 15" design took an underspec cooler for a quadcore and tried to get it to work with a octocore of the same uarch, similar node, and similar clock.

 

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Meaning that if users wish to enable manual fan control, they will see improved thermals. 

That requires 3rd party hardware, and is something Apple fights against.

 

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

This 16” MBP is the best cooled MacBook they’ve ever made. 

Which is still rather pathetic outside of the thin and light market.

[DrMacintosh]

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That requires 3rd party hardware, and is something Apple fights against.

Excuse me? 3rd party hardware? No, just no. 

https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control

 

Literally a free software tool that lives in your menu bar. 

19 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

But not over many other laptops.

Apple and their users generally don't care about other laptops. Mac people compare to other Macs, not gaming laptops or other thin and lights. The people in the ecosystem are in it because they use software that is only available for the Mac or have a strong preference for macOS. 

 

The 16" MacBook Pro is not trying to have better thermals or performance than "similar" laptops in its class. It's trying to have the best display, the best speakers, the best microphones, the best build, and the best user experience. That's what a Mac is, an experience. 

[Drak3]

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

3rd party hardware?

I mistyped, but it's not worth my time fixing.

 

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

the best build

Completely average now. They were the best in fitment (and exclusively fitment, not overall build quality) 10 years ago. Now, HP, Dell, Microsoft, and Lenovo all have devices with the same level of fitment. MSI doesn't waste their resources going after the thin and light market anymore, so they can't have a thin and light with that type of fitment, and I don't pay attention to Gigabyte, ASUS, or ACER laptops.

 

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

the best user experience.

Highly subjective, and something Apple has been doing a worse job with, as we see going from Sierra to Catalina.

[Trik'Stari]

7 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

I've seen the state of many laptops myself, usually falling victim to heaps of dust and such, and that's on the outside. 

 

And if we open the cover......good Lord. 

Wait until you open one and it's crawling with roaches.

 

Or every vent is stuffed with deodorant, for some reason.

 

Or gum.

 

I've seen laptops cut in half by train. Why? I don't fucking know, but our public school systems are an absolute shambles. If you think public schools are important and valuable, go work for the repair company that does their laptop programs.

 

IF I ever manage to have children, they will be going to private school. Because public schools are a complete joke.

[D13H4RD]

9 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Apple prefers running hot and silent over cool and loud. This 16” MBP is the best cooled MacBook Pro they’ve ever made all specs considered. 

Not with this one, apparently.

 

Turns out that the fans on the current 16” will now ramp up much more quickly.

[reptileexperts]

 

XPS 9570 i7 4K on the right. MacBook 16 i9 5500m on the left. 
 

 
1200p benchmark very playable ran native in Mac osx 

 

will have windows benches soon enough. 

[reptileexperts]

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/21004013/fs/20903996
 

i7 8750H 1050ti MQ 9570 xps dell 

vs 

i9 5500m Mac in Bootcamp. 
 

egpu is not recognized at all in windows at this time. 

[jasonvp]

So tempting, if for nothing else than the keyboard.  Unfortunately the value of my late 2018 has actually tanked pretty bad (according to both Apple and EBay).  So I'll be left with a pretty hefty difference.

[Zacharius]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:36 AM, reptileexperts said:

 

XPS 9570 i7 4K on the right. MacBook 16 i9 5500m on the left. 
 

 
1200p benchmark very playable ran native in Mac osx 

 

will have windows benches soon enough. 

 

I'm pretty impressed with these results. I've never even tried installing Steam on my MBP, but I may have to give it a shot if I go through with the upgrade. 

[Belgarathian]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:26 AM, mr moose said:

Apple, the only company to remove common features and push (force in some cases) you to buy new instead of repair,  and have fanboys defend it like they are gracing you with charity.

 

 

Can't forget Razer

 

Or pretty much any other ultrabook manufacturer. 

[Zacharius]

On 11/19/2019 at 2:40 PM, DrMacintosh said:

While gaining increased performance over the 2019 15”. Meaning that if users wish to enable manual fan control, they will see improved thermals. 
 

Apple prefers running hot and silent over cool and loud. This 16” MBP is the best cooled MacBook Pro they’ve ever made all specs considered. 

I've never really considered thermals whenever buying a MBP. It can definitely get a bit toasty whenever rendering, but I love how silent my current 2016 is while I'm working. 

 

This all being said, is the 2019 just as silent with the new take on cooling?

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Zacharius said:

This all being said, is the 2019 just as silent with the new take on cooling?

It’s a bit of a messy topic. Technically no, the new 16” is slightly louder than the 15” by a few db. However the noise is at a lower pitch than the 15” was so it’s more manageable even at the same or greater loudness. Another point of note is that you still more performance (noise normalized) out of the 16” compared to the 15” models thanks to the noticeably improved cooling and massively improved GPUs. 

[Zacharius]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

It’s a bit of a messy topic. Technically no, the new 16” is slightly louder than the 15” by a few db. However the noise is at a lower pitch than the 15” was so it’s more manageable even at the same or greater loudness. Another point of note is that you still more performance (noise normalized) out of the 16” compared to the 15” models thanks to the noticeably improved cooling. 

That's fantastic to hear. I'm still going to give it a bit to wait on some more reviews, but I am pretty hyped about everything I have heard thud far about the improvements. 

 

I am probably going to be crucified for this, but I love my 2016 MBPs keyboard. I did have to get the keyboard replaced whenever a couple started having issues, but I had it back in my hands within three days. While I'm sad to see the design get thrown out, I'm happy they were finally able to put out something that (from everything I've heard/seen) is a huge improvement.

 

The physical escape key is another nice perk, but I can't say that I ever had an issue with my touch bar version. I think I have just gotten lucky with this though from hearing other peoples complaints. 

[xtroria]

Why are there people still debating about gaming on a mac?

 

Apple doesn't give a crap about gaming on a mac, that's iPad and iPhone territory.

 

Apple caters mac for people who are going to buy a mac in the first place because they are so used to mac, for media creators and software developers.

 

One thing MacOS is incredible at is what linus call "crap management". Even IBM's own record shows their employees running mac in general require significantly less IT help

[DrMacintosh]

13 minutes ago, Zacharius said:

I am probably going to be crucified for this, but I love my 2016 MBPs keyboard

I really like my 2016 13” Keyboard as well. But only really for typing. When I try and game on it it’s not ideal. But a better mouse would improve my comfort more than more key travel would. 
 

As for the escape key, my 2016 13” doesn’t have a TouchBar, so idk how much I would hate not having one. 

[DrMacintosh]

33 minutes ago, xtroria said:

Why are there people still debating about gaming on a mac?

A Mac isn’t some mystical device. It’s just a PC that runs an exclusive OS. Load Windows on a 2019 16” MBP and you have an incredibly thin and light machine that can actually game well above it’s weight-class. 

[mr moose]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:02 AM, Sorenson said:

 If you want to play these games you just buy an $8 OEM copy of windows 10 and instal it on your Mac. If $8 is going to break your bank you can't really afford a Mac.

 

Where the hell do you buy an $8 OEM for windows as an end user?  

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Where the hell do you buy an $8 OEM for windows as an end user?  

From stolen key resellers

[Commodus]

Marques Brownlee posted his review:

 

 

He calls it the best laptop Apple has ever made -- that's a pretty bold claim.  Yeah, there's no SD card slot (he brings this up), but otherwise it touches all the bases.  Only reason it's not his dream laptop is because he'd like a smaller model.  I'm with him... if Apple could make a 14-inch MBP with a higher-res screen, the fixed keyboard, a larger battery and better cooling... well, I'm set.

[SeraphicWings]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Marques Brownlee posted his review:

 

 

He calls it the best laptop Apple has ever made -- that's a pretty bold claim.  Yeah, there's no SD card slot (he brings this up), but otherwise it touches all the bases.  Only reason it's not his dream laptop is because he'd like a smaller model.  I'm with him... if Apple could make a 14-inch MBP with a higher-res screen, the fixed keyboard, a larger battery and better cooling... well, I'm set.

The 16 inch is much too overkill too, the presumed 14 inch Macbook Pro with Intel's 10th gen Ice Lake CPUs should be the winner here, if Apple stick with how they made the 16 inch

[Commodus]

39 minutes ago, SeraphicWings said:

The 16 inch is much too overkill too, the presumed 14 inch Macbook Pro with Intel's 10th gen Ice Lake CPUs should be the winner here, if Apple stick with how they made the 16 inch

If it had to be my only system, for my needs I'd say the 16-inch would be just enough kill. 

 

But as a secondary system or a main system for modest uses, a smaller model would be much better.