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Boby

Thermal Mod Idea

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Posted · Original PosterOP

What do you guys think would happen if i connect the copper pipes of the GPU cooler to the copper pipes of the CPU cooler with copper pipes like shown on the picture? :)

 

test.thumb.jpg.82f59dd2e0f105f12defd11535c08f62.jpg

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You would leak out whatever that is inside those heatpipes and probably would get rid of %80 of your CPU and GPU cooling capabilities. If you somehow managed to get a custom heatpipe through your GPU cooler and through your CPU cooler, you are most likely to increase CPU temperatures.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

I did not meant to cut them open, just connect heat copper pipe, it would still transfer heat. And yeah, i suspect an increase in CPU temp but decrease in GPU temp.

The thing is GPU temp is at 73-74C at max load, with fans at 70% and they are laud at that rate. I tried adding more fans to different locations, even manually hold em around different spots (200mm fans), the temp of the GPU does not seems to move even 1 degree below. Seems that to me its not a matter of delivering cool air, it has plenty, but more of GPU cooler maximum and needs better radiator i guess.

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Do you know how heatpipes work? Connecting them would make temps worse overall as they wouldn't have chance to cool anywhere. Heatpipes main purpose is to move heat from source to heatsink. Connecting two heatsources isn't going to help either.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
29 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Do you know how heatpipes work? Connecting them would make temps worse overall as they wouldn't have chance to cool anywhere. Heatpipes main purpose is to move heat from source to heatsink. Connecting two heatsources isn't going to help either.

Yes i know how heatpipes works and your statement is not correct. CPU cooler have A LOT of headroom to spare. Heatpipes should deliver (ideally) heat from the GPU which is hotter, to the CPU cooler, so if the transfer is good, the CPU temp will increase but not much while GPU cooler temp goes down eating CPU cooler headroom. Don't forget that every laptop works in exactly the same way. Here is a simple example:

GPU-original-pId-18919110.jpg?addText=1

 

The real question tho is as they won't be really connected, (not cutting them and adding stuff inside), but just "touching" each other how good the transfer will be. Probably not much, and probably they will be barely any change if any.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I have seen Linus video, and this is done long time ago and its known to be working, my idea is kinda different.

I guess i could just buy some copper pipes like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32759351235.html. Bend them somehow and stick them in both radiators and see what happens :) Or maybe Linus could do this experiment for me lol.

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2 hours ago, Boby said:

Yes i know how heatpipes works and your statement is not correct. CPU cooler have A LOT of headroom to spare. Heatpipes should deliver (ideally) heat from the GPU which is hotter, to the CPU cooler, so if the transfer is good, the CPU temp will increase but not much while GPU cooler temp goes down eating CPU cooler headroom. Don't forget that every laptop works in exactly the same way. Here is a simple example:

GPU-original-pId-18919110.jpg?addText=1

 

The real question tho is as they won't be really connected, (not cutting them and adding stuff inside), but just "touching" each other how good the transfer will be. Probably not much, and probably they will be barely any change if any.

So what you are saying it seem is it is not correct in this particular instance because the CPU cooler would be a heat sink relative to the GPU.  Making you both correct.  Sort of.  Maybe. Temperature albido comes in to play though.  Heat pipes need a pretty big heat differential to work.  If both coolers are the same temperature it would just be a hollow copper wire.

 

This seems like a complicated solution to a complicated problem.  How much future trouble might be caused by turning two components into one?  Will there be a problem causing imbalance in area cooling because you are only connecting only some pipes from one cooler to some pipes from another? (Notice in your example there is only a single heat pipe). In the case of the CPU cooler the pipe pointed at cools only one side of the CPU.  I can’t even tell what pipes on the GPU are being connected. Will there be enough equalization within the rest of the cooler to prevent any problems that might be caused by that? I don’t know.  This is why experimentation is done.
 

let’s look at the original problem which is less complicated:  fan noise from the GPU.  You contend that the only solution is to increase heat exchange area, and you want to use spare area on the CPU cooler for that purpose.

 

What if it isn’t though?

 

1: have custom fan ramps been tried?  Not a perfect solution but it could help.
2: is there perhaps a problem with the fans ON the GPU?  Pointing other fans at the GPU fans is going to do nearly nothing as the fans on the gpu would overwhelm anything.  Actually replacing the fan shroud and using different fans is another old technique.  The standard method is to use old case fans and zip tie them to the heat sink.  It’s hard to know from your description if this was tried or not in your fan experiments.  I understand it’s less effective than it used to be.  GPU shroud design has improved.  It tends to make the GPU a good deal thicker.  Case fans are not designed for maximum thinness.  They are often designed for quiet though.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So what you are saying it seem is it is not correct in this particular instance because the CPU cooler would be a heat sink relative to the GPU.  Making you both correct.  Sort of.

 

This seems like a complicated solution to a complicated problem.  How much future trouble might be caused by turning two components into one?  Will there be a problem causing imbalance in area cooling because you are only connecting only some pipes from one cooler to some pipes from another?  In the case of the CPU cooler the pipe pointed at cools only one side of the CPU.  I can’t even tell what pipes on the GPU are being connected. Will there be enough equalization within the rest of the cooler to prevent any problems that might be caused by that? I don’t know.  This is why experimentation is done.
 

let’s look at the original problem which is less complicated:  fan noise from the GPU.  You contend that the only solution is to increase heat exchange area, and you want to use spare area on the CPU cooler for that purpose.

 

What if it isn’t though?

 

1: have custom fan ramps been tried?  Not a perfect solution but it could help.
2: is there perhaps a problem with the fans ON the GPU?  Pointing other fans at the GPU fans is going to do nearly nothing as the fans on the gpu would overwhelm anything.  Actually replacing the fan shroud and using different fans is another old technique.  The standard method is to use old case fans and zip tie them to the heat sink.  It’s hard to know from your description if this was tried or not in your fan experiments.  I understand it’s less effective than it used to be.  GPU shroud design has improved.  It tends to make the GPU a good deal thicker.  Case fans are not designed for maximum thinness.  They are often designed for quiet though.

I agree experimentation is needed.

To complete the info here is the situation.

I test under 100% GPU stress as i want to push the GPU as much as it can, but i don't want to hear that noise, so fan curves won;t help for 100% GPU Usage. In fact the GPU (MSI 2070 Super ventus) down clock from 1935mhz to 1905mhz to keep it going above 74C

My GPU temps are up to 74C and GPU fans at around 70-80%.

At the same time at constant GPU and CPU stress at 100%, my CPU never goes above 60C (Apparently i did good job cooling the CPU R5 3600

To understand me better, here is a picture of the whole PC.

 

253195891_2019-11-1019_51.48copy.thumb.jpg.e3a35a5e7a660517f1157370788a395d.jpg

 

At the front there are 2x massive 200mm fans for intake. and one exhaust at the back (Positive pressure).

 

What i have tried is adding more exhaust fans all nocturnes 120mm (top), adding more intake fans (Top) , adding fan on top of the PSU shroud as intake or exhaust, adding fan behind the the GPU at the back of the case. Removing front and top intake mesh, does not have any effect.

And all this, GPU temp don't bunch, maybe at most 1C.

Even at the back of the case its coming cool and not hot air.  The Hot air is in the back exhaust fan and top. The Top of the case is also entirely open with dust filter too.

What all that means, is that the case and the GPU receive enough cool air inside, and more air does not provide better cooling except if air is below ambient temp i guess.

 

What that means is that everything else except some GPU mod in terms of case cooling is done and tested, and this is the best GPU cooling can do. Normally the temp of the GPU is fine and there is no issues, but like i said i don't like the fans to be that laud, and GPU fans are fine, i have tested them too, its not defective or anything.

 

What you suggested to replace GPU fans, i have already tested this mod on another GPU card i have an old 970 and the temps are slightly worse and the noise is still there altho slightly better, and it also requires modification of the GPU bios to set proper curve for the new fans.

 

2019-05-23-13_36.thumb.jpg.f65b8bbd5f3e2c1a62eaf59da141a82d.jpg

 

So, i wonder what can i do to make those GPU quite on AIR!

My GPU fans are fine and I'm happy with their noise level at around 60%, but not above that. So i need to improve the cooling just a bit.

Perhaps if i change the GPU thermal paste with liquid metal could make the difference, idk. Damn i want some custom GPU aftermarket coolers that are better then stock stuff.

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30 minutes ago, Boby said:

I agree experimentation is needed.

To complete the info here is the situation.

I test under 100% GPU stress as i want to push the GPU as much as it can, but i don't want to hear that noise, so fan curves won;t help for 100% GPU Usage. In fact the GPU (MSI 2070 Super ventus) down clock from 1935mhz to 1905mhz to keep it going above 74C

My GPU temps are up to 74C and GPU fans at around 70-80%.

At the same time at constant GPU and CPU stress at 100%, my CPU never goes above 60C (Apparently i did good job cooling the CPU R5 3600

To understand me better, here is a picture of the whole PC.

 

253195891_2019-11-1019_51.48copy.thumb.jpg.e3a35a5e7a660517f1157370788a395d.jpg

 

At the front there are 2x massive 200mm fans for intake. and one exhaust at the back (Positive pressure).

 

What i have tried is adding more exhaust fans all nocturnes 120mm (top), adding more intake fans (Top) , adding fan on top of the PSU shroud as intake or exhaust, adding fan behind the the GPU at the back of the case. Removing front and top intake mesh, does not have any effect.

And all this, GPU temp don't bunch, maybe at most 1C.

Even at the back of the case its coming cool and not hot air.  The Hot air is in the back exhaust fan and top. The Top of the case is also entirely open with dust filter too.

What all that means, is that the case and the GPU receive enough cool air inside, and more air does not provide better cooling except if air is below ambient temp i guess.

 

What that means is that everything else except some GPU mod in terms of case cooling is done and tested, and this is the best GPU cooling can do. Normally the temp of the GPU is fine and there is no issues, but like i said i don't like the fans to be that laud, and GPU fans are fine, i have tested them too, its not defective or anything.

 

What you suggested to replace GPU fans, i have already tested this mod on another GPU card i have an old 970 and the temps are slightly worse and the noise is still there altho slightly better, and it also requires modification of the GPU bios to set proper curve for the new fans.

 

2019-05-23-13_36.thumb.jpg.f65b8bbd5f3e2c1a62eaf59da141a82d.jpg

 

So, i wonder what can i do to make those GPU quite on AIR!

My GPU fans are fine and I'm happy with their noise level at around 60%, but not above that. So i need to improve the cooling just a bit.

Perhaps if i change the GPU thermal paste with liquid metal could make the difference, idk. Damn i want some custom GPU aftermarket coolers that are better then stock stuff.

Experimentation also tends to break stuff.  
 

Assuming the thing did work, the degree to which it worked would change the temperature of the two heat pipes on the CPU they are connected to.  There is thermal connection between the pipes at several levels.  Is it enough to equalize the difference?  I don’t know.  Would that difference if it is not equalized cause a problem to your CPU over time?  I don’t know.  You could try it and wait up to 5 years to see if your CPU breaks.  Might happen real fast.  Might not happen at all.

 

i kind of want you to try it just to solve some unknowns.  There are big issues.  There needs to be enough heat transfer between the ends and simply touching them probably won’t cut it.  Furthermore they’re round solder lumps.  If you melt that solder you open the pipe which causes all kinds of problems.  Heat conductive epoxy or paste?  Stuff isn’t very conductive.  The heat pipe may not even function as an evaporator so it would effectively just be a wire.  Both coolers are (in theory) grounded so an electrical conduction problem is unlikely.

 

One question not yet conclusively answered is how good a model the 970 is for the GPU you now have?  Implication is that there would be no cooling gain and possibly no noise gain.  Just an implication though.

 

seems to me like a lot of trouble to save some cash on another CPU cooler to strap your GPU board to.

 

liquid metal paste has longevity issues.  You need to keep replacing it.  Might work though.

 

I prefer the diamond stuff myself.  Lasts longer.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Experimentation also tends to break stuff.  
 

Assuming the thing did work, the degree to which it worked would change the temperature of the two heat pipes on the CPU they are connected to.  There is thermal connection between the pipes at several levels.  Is it enough to equalize the difference?  I don’t know.  Would that difference if it is not equalized cause a problem to your CPU over time?  I don’t know.  You could try it and wait up to 5 years to see if your CPU breaks.  Might happen real fast.  Might not happen at all.

 

i kind of want you to try it just to solve some unknowns.  There are big issues.  There needs to be enough heat transfer between the ends and simply touching them probably won’t cut it.  Furthermore they’re round solder lumps.  If you melt that solder you open the pipe which causes all kinds of problems.  Heat conductive epoxy or paste?  Stuff isn’t very conductive.  The heat pipe may not even function as an evaporator so it would effectively just be a wire.  Both coolers are (in theory) grounded so an electrical conduction problem is unlikely.

 

One question not yet conclusively answered is how good a model the 970 is for the GPU you now have?  Implication is that there would be no cooling gain and possibly no noise gain.  Just an implication though.

 

seems to me like a lot of trouble to save some cash on another CPU cooler to strap your GPU board to.

 

liquid metal paste has longevity issues.  You need to keep replacing it.  Might work though.

 

I prefer the diamond stuff myself.  Lasts longer.

Yea i agree, transfer is the big issue here. But with some tiny aliexpress heat pipes stick inside the radiator instead of touching the other heat pipes might prove much better.  Also its not about saving some cash to throw CPU cooler there, i just want to try and explore none invasive methods first that won't void the warranty of the GPU itself, if that fails then CPU cooler with mod for vram or liquid is the obvious choice.

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Ali express means cheap generally.  Iirc a cheap heat pipe is a piece of copper tube that has had a piece of sand paper run through it, filled with boiling water, and then sealed at both ends.  As to whether there will be enough heat transfer to make a difference?  No clue.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Well, problem solved!

I have contacted MSI, and we spoke about it. It turns out its some new stupid feature called "asynchronous cooling", and what basically this does is one of the GPU fans works at 80% while the other is chilling at 45-50%. This feature is on by default and it is supposed to be more efficient and quite , which may be true for casual gaming but definitely not for 100% constant GPU stress.

 

evga_icx_technology-04_575px.png

 

The Fix? enable "synchronous cooling" in MSI Afterburner, now both fans are running at around 55-65% under 100% stress and the card is reasonably quite... In normal games now my fans are below 50% and the card is holding 67-69C and basically cannot be heard.

 

But anyway, i will purchase someday copper heat pipes and test this theory to see what will happen :)

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