Apple Blows All Competition With Update to 4S

[Guest]

Urgent update for older iPhones before they lose vital functions

Source: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12280261

 

It appears Apple pushing update for the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5, making the support for these phones around 8 and 7 years, being released in 2011 and 2012 respectively. But why?

 

Quote

iPhone users still clinging to their seven-year-old iPhone 5 or eight-year-old iPhone 4S models need to update to the latest software this week, or risk losing access to GPS, email, iCloud, the App Store and other web services.

 

The flaw is caused by a strange tech phenomenon called GPS Rollover, which happens approximately once every 20 years.

 

The issue is caused by the way GPS technology keeps track of time.

Thats interesting, I wonder if Android devices need an update too? (Theres a joke there somewhere with Android and Updates). So why is this update necessary and how does GPS Technology keep track of time?

 

Quote

The system counts weeks using binary digits, which means it can only count up to a maximum of 1024 weeks.

 

This means every 1024 weeks, or around 19.7 years, the counter rolls over, which can cause problems for programs and devices that rely on GPS for the correct date and time but haven't been coded correctly to account for the rollover.

 

They could be fooled into displaying a date from 20 or 40 years ago, or just stop working all together.

Thats quite interesting, however it should be noted that the 5 will need to update to iOS 10.3.4, and the 4S to iOS 9.3.6. So great that these are still supported, great for budged-minded people holding on to still-capable (not really) iPhones. 

 

However older iPhones will not be updated, and iPad models with cellular connectivity up to the 4th generation, will also be depreciated. Which is fair enough as they are just hard to use now. So - as a reminder:

 

Quote

Affected Apple devices will rollover shortly before midnight on Sunday, November 3 and need to be updated before then to avoid a time-consuming back up and restoration process using a separate computer.

Make sure to update, there is probably an update for all Apple iDevices for this fix too.

 

 

My Opinion:

- Great work.  I'm sure these phones are probably hand-me-down to kids, and for people who bought them not too long ago on a budget. Excellent news that they are still able to be used to their full functionality after so long. 

 

- I wonder if Android devices will be issuing a similar fix for phones that are older, maybe not 8 years but you know.

[mr moose]

This is funny because the iphone 4 and 5 were probably the last of the apple devices that could actually be used for this many years without issue.

[Juular]

What GPS rollover has to do with losing access to anything besides GPS ?

[williamcll]

My uncle had a 4S that could barely function

[samcool55]

2 hours ago, Juular said:

What GPS rollover has to do with losing access to anything besides GPS ?

My guess is because they say it will go to a random time 20 or 40 years ago if you do miss the update, certificates will be seen as expired or invalid because the time of the phone does not match the time window when the certificate is valid.

 

It's very likely the app store, icloud and whatever use certificates to allow an encrypted connection, if the certificate is invalid, you can't connect because you can't set up a secure connection so it stops working.

 

If you want to see it for yourself, put your clock a few years ahead or behind and visit an https website, it won't work anymore. Can be done on a PC btw. (basically every device that allows you to manually change the time and has a modern web browser)

[TechyBen]

An update is not special. Like, other companies will do one off limited "bug updates" or software updates that filter down (if seperate app etc). Is this only the GPS? In which case, yeah...

 

(IIRC my Note 3 got an actual software update in 2018, and was getting security certificates update up till I passed it on in march 2019... https://www.sammobile.com/samsung/galaxy-note-3-lte/firmware/SM-N9005/BTU/ )

 

Yes this is good. But stop with the silliness.

 

Though no excuse for companies that do a phone/laptop etc and drop support updates after 1 or 2 years (smart TVs are the worst example!!!).

[soldier_ph]

Oh, lol. I guess I'll be doing a lot of iMeme Support this week then...

[ryao]

Once devices stop getting the latest major version updates, Apple seems to stop patching security issues and restricts updates to critical bug fixes like this. It is better than nothing, but it is not quite far enough to ensure the devices’ longevity. Anyone concerned about security will probably still need to go with newer phones when the security updates stop.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, floofer said:

The system counts weeks using binary digits, which means it can only count up to a maximum of 1024 weeks.

Have we learnt nothing from Y2K? Just use a 64bit unsigned integer and be done with it ffs

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

This is funny because the iphone 4 and 5 were probably the last of the apple devices that could actually be used for this many years without issue.

I have a 4s a friend gave me and the battery is dead.

[ryao]

GPS rollover happened earlier this year:

 

https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/06/gps-rollover-is-today-heres-why-devices-might-get-wacky/

 

I wonder why iOS devices are only being affected now. Maybe they programmed it to start counting at a number other than zero.

[ryao]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I have a 4s a friend gave me and the battery is dead.

 

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, ryao said:

 

 

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

without issue.

 

[ryao]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

 

 

The battery is a wearable component. Replacing it is not much different than replacing the tires on a car when they need to be replaced. I would not call that an issue.

[Dabombinable]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

This is funny because the iphone 4 and 5 were probably the last of the apple devices that could actually be used for this many years without issue.

13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Have we learnt nothing from Y2K? Just use a 64bit unsigned integer and be done with it ffs

I have a 4s a friend gave me and the battery is dead.

And that's common with all batteries. Its only an issue if the battery isn't replaceable.

As for the rather weired limit, well GPS is extremely old.

[Froody129]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

This is funny because the iphone 4 and 5 were probably the last of the apple devices that could actually be used for this many years without issue.

My 6s Plus is still functioning like a new phone. Only downside is the camera is dated compared to modern phones, but it's fine for me. If they're not dropped, phones can last a long time, especially with Apple seeming to actually care about older devices 

[Video Beagle]

fwiw, my 5s also had an update to 12.4.2 tis weekend (or at least I upped it...it won't go to 13)

[Video Beagle]

22 minutes ago, ryao said:

I wonder why iOS devices are only being affected now. Maybe they programmed it to start counting at a number other than zero.

from the OP article:

The rollover began happening for some systems in April this year, when widely used GPS components from US conglomerate Honeywell rolled over, leading to the temporary grounding of Bureau of Meteorology weather balloons and some Boeing aeroplanes.

 

 

[ryao]

2 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

from the OP article:

The rollover began happening for some systems in April this year, when widely used GPS components from US conglomerate Honeywell rolled over, leading to the temporary grounding of Bureau of Meteorology weather balloons and some Boeing aeroplanes.

 

 

The numbers being broadcast already rolled over though. iOS must have some offset below which the numbers are regarded to be from the next period. That is the only way it being affected now makes sense.

[Video Beagle]

Just now, ryao said:

The numbers being broadcast already rolled over though. iOS must have some offset below which the numbers are regarded to be from the next period. That is the only way it being affected now makes sense.

I took the mention of "some systems" to mean it;s not universal at one time....which doesn't make sense now tat i type it out.... guess some implementations use an offset or such as you suppose.

[ryao]

52 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Have we learnt nothing from Y2K? Just use a 64bit unsigned integer and be done with it ffs

The system was designed before Y2K during the Cold War. The designers might have expected doomsday to come before the first 1024 week mark elapsed. It is not that easy to change something like this given all of the things depending on it. It seems that the first time it happened, nobody really seemed to care as far as I can tell. They only seem to care now with the second time because various devices that depend on accurate time get their time information from GPS.

 

Interestingly, iOS devices use aGPS, which uses cellular towers to do triangulation. The designers probably could have fixed the timestamp, but they did not.

 

The iPhone ought to talk to internet time servers like other Apple devices when internet connectivity is available (otherwise those without cellular connections would not have accurate time). Hopefully this issue only affects the devices that can only access aGPS for time.

[Juular]

3 hours ago, samcool55 said:

My guess is because they say it will go to a random time 20 or 40 years ago if you do miss the update, certificates will be seen as expired or invalid because the time of the phone does not match the time window when the certificate is valid.

 

It's very likely the app store, icloud and whatever use certificates to allow an encrypted connection, if the certificate is invalid, you can't connect because you can't set up a secure connection so it stops working.

 

If you want to see it for yourself, put your clock a few years ahead or behind and visit an https website, it won't work anymore. Can be done on a PC btw. (basically every device that allows you to manually change the time and has a modern web browser)

Not random, it'll start over Aug 22, 1999 while it's Apr 7 2019 in fact, it'll affect only GPS since this information is broadcasted by GPS satellites and phone need to know how to interpret it. It's nothing to do with phone's own time counting system, so it doesn't affect certificates either. Looks like they're forcing to update everyone with older software under disguise of losing access to everything while in fact it's just GPS and nothing else. And there's question why they're talking about this just now while it has occurred more than half a year ago.

Edit: I might be not aware of some other relation between the date GPS transmits and phone's own time counting system tho.

Edit: Maybe these older phones use GPS as main time synchronization system instead of internet time services ? Or in case they contradict each other they use GPS as seemingly more accurate.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, ryao said:

The battery is a wearable component. Replacing it is not much different than replacing the tires on a car when they need to be replaced. I would not call that an issue.

What would you call an issue in this context? Cracked screens and dead batteries are the most common reasons phones stop working, I've never come across a device that had its logic board die spontaneously unless it had suffered liquid damage in the past (which would also kill a 4s). If batteries and screens don't count because they can be replaced then I could say that almost all devices can last "for this many years without issues".

1 hour ago, ryao said:

The system was designed before Y2K during the Cold War. The designers might have expected doomsday to come before the first 1024 week mark elapsed. It is not that easy to change something like this given all of the things depending on it.

Even if you can't change the standard (I doubt that's the case for an internal timer) you can easily implement a system that can tell when the rollover is going to happen and fix the problem automatically.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Yay. So if people don't update (rather quickly as well) to fix an issue that is literally only about GPS, their entire device risks becoming a paperweight? Loss of app store and web connectivity?

 

Please remind me to thank apple for their generosity.

[TechyBen]

 

1 hour ago, ryao said:

The numbers being broadcast already rolled over though. iOS must have some offset below which the numbers are regarded to be from the next period. That is the only way it being affected now makes sense.

Seems exactly 6 months? So might have "+ 6 months" somewhere in code? As it's a clock rollover, it's not a problem until the clock goes "I'm full, stop"

 

[RedRound2]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

This is funny because the iphone 4 and 5 were probably the last of the apple devices that could actually be used for this many years without issue.

You just couldn't help yourself, could you? Any positive Apple news (however small it may be) you have to say something with no base or evidence whatsoever to colour the opinion of people who aren't as well informed as you and I.

 

Phones from back in the day used to last about 2-3 years max. Phones these days, especially iPhones can easily last about 4-5 years. I have experience in my own household. iPhone 3GS, had to upgrade to 4S, then 6S, and 6S is still going pretty good with 4S being the secondary phone whenever we need it while travelling. That's an increase of 2 years, to 4 years, to 4 years+ as of this September.

 

And even the battery health hasn't gone below 80% because there was a free battery replacement program by Apple for the 6S 2 years ago.