[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[LinusShitpostTips]

2 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

both are good PSUs, it's just likely that the platinum king is old stock

 

with that said... revolution df starts at 650w... why aren't you looking at 450-550w?

you never need it, it's just a comfort thing. but in this case the worst that can happen is that you have to manage away 2-3 cables when it's non-modular

well in case i need to upgrade my parts someday in the future, why not? it also happens to be in tier A+ in your list

[Xsaren]

Hey there

Need an advice which PS would be better to get into my setup.
Options which i consider:
- BQ Straight power 11 Gold 650W (~117$ in my country)
-BQ Straight power 11 Plat 650W ( ~134$)
- BitFenix Whisper M 750W (~109$)  OR 95$ for 650W unit

Not sure if i should get 650 or 750W unit.

My current spec : 

-9600K  (Cooled with Thermaltake floee riing 360)
-Asrock z390 Extreme 4
-Corsair 3000Mhz CL15
-Zotac AMP Extreme 1070
-AIM SC808 Soundcard
-SSD m.2 , SSD Sata, SATA HDD
-2 Thermaltake fan controllers ARGB
-6x  120mm fans Floe riing 120

Current PS is XFX ProSeries Core 550W

Will perform OC on the parts, and i'll upgrade this in future.
BQ have 5 yar guarantee while BitFenix has 7.

Thanks for the help

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Xsaren said:

Will perform OC on the parts, and i'll upgrade this in future.

honestly... you would have no problem doing all of this on a 550w version

 

but out of the options you mentioned, I would personally choose the Whisper M 650w

[Juular]

30 minutes ago, Xsaren said:

in my country

What country ? As Luke said, if choosing of those three, i'd get Bitfenix too but you don't need even 650W for this and there might be something else. Make a new thread, tell what's your country and give a couple of links to local online stores to choose from. Feel free to ping us then.

[Sapphiree]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:13 PM, Juular said:

And speaking of means to separate them, if you can suggest anything that would be good

 

I suggest just simply sort the list from the most reputable brands/models that should be the first choice of people looking for a new power supply for those that are little known and you can only consider buying them when other known models of brands like corsair,seasonic,bq etc. are too expensive in our region or unavailable. Quality control, company reputation, manufacturer's warranty support details like soldering quality are much better in well-known brands than for example something like sama oem based units. 

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, Kaygooo said:

I suggest just simply sort the list from the most reputable brands/models that should be the first choice of people looking for a new power supply for those that are little known and you can only consider buying them when other known models of brands like corsair,seasonic,bq etc. are too expensive in our region or unavailable.

stupid question... why would we want to? it being a better known company doesn't mean it's better or worse directly

[Juular]

14 minutes ago, Kaygooo said:

I suggest just simply sort the list from the most reputable brands/models that should be the first choice of people looking for a new power supply for those that are little known and you can only consider buying them when other known models of brands like corsair,seasonic,bq etc. are too expensive in our region or unavailable.

Again, debunking the misconception that simply by going for 'reputable' brand you'll get a good PSU (or other products) no matter what is the whole point of this tier list. Take ADATA, Bitfenix, Chieftec, Cougar, Deepcool, Mistrel, SilentiumPC, Riotoro PSUs in tier A\A+ as an example, hardly any of them could be named as reputable, yet, these specific PSU models are very good, using the very same platforms that other high-end PSUs use, with the same quality of components and level of performance, they definitely would be better picks than PSUs from more reputable brands from lower tiers.

Quote

Quality control, company reputation, manufacturer's warranty support details like soldering quality are much better in well-known brands than for example something like sama oem based units.

Warranty ? Maybe, Seasonic (and partners) and Corsair offer 10y warranty for their stuff, no other brand does. Does it worth to pay for their offers more or not is upto consumers, we don't tier warranty. QC ? It's not like CWT that makes PSUs for Corsair does less quality control for other brands, same for other OEMs assuming they're indeed known for overall good quality. But again, we don't tier quality or reputation of brands or OEMs assuming they're not complete garbage, we look at specific units in question. And speaking of SAMA, look at reviews and tell me what's wrong with them in any regard, i don't see anything. Yes, it's relatively unknown OEM, but look at reviews and user feedback on SilentiumPC PSUs, you can hardly find any bad feedback at all, Vinga, Ukrainian brand uses SAMA on their VPS Gold \ Platinum lineup too, and they're identical to SPC Supremos inside.

[Sapphiree]

42 minutes ago, Juular said:

yet, these specific PSU models are very good, using the very same platforms that other high-end PSUs use, with the same quality of components and level of performance.

 

Well, i wouldn't say that, a lower price never comes from nothing. If the quality were the same, why do these brands give only a 2-5 year warranty instead of a 10-12 year like others? I wrote why, because they are not sure what they are selling.

 

I will give you one of many examples of unfavorable comments about spc power supplies, The one above describes that spc melted his entire pcie cable and the power connector on the output after 2 weeks. spc refused him a guarantee because they said he was digging cryptocurrency which was not true . Do you think this is a good business behavior?.

There are many such examples and most of them are caused by very poor quality control, but you still think that such little-known power supplies are on par with good quality models like ss or Corsair, they are not and never will be, a lower price means saving somewhere and that's it.

[Juular]

16 minutes ago, Kaygooo said:

 

Well, i wouldn't say that, a lower price never comes from nothing. If the quality were the same, why do these brands give only a 2-5 year warranty instead of a 10-12 year like others? I wrote why, because they are not sure what they are selling.

Again, warranty is not an indicator of quality. If you were judge PSU quality by warranty then there would be just Seasonic, Corsair and EVGA, because everyone else offer 5y, sometimes 7y. And some folk indeed think that these three are indeed the only trustworthy PSU brands out there, our opinion is different.

Quote

I will give you one of many examples of unfavorable comments about spc power supplies, The one above describes that spc melted his entire pcie cable and the power connector on the output. spc refused him a guarantee because they said he was digging cryptocurrency which was not true . Do you think this is a good business behavior?.

You don't have the whole picture, maybe he were indeed mining or just plugged some very high power draw GPU with just one cable, who knows ? Cables don't melt by themselves. And judging by '7 years ago', it's quite old feedback, definitely not about current SPC product stack (i'm not even sure if they were using SAMA these days). I'm speaking about Supremo lineup specifically, because it's located in tier A and represents SAMA in the top tiers which you were talking about. I didn't dig very deep about Vero lineup because it's group reg and wouldn't be recommended to buy anyway.

[Sapphiree]

 

This is not an example 7 years ago but 7 hours ago. People in groups and forums describe quite a lot of similar problems and I have some insight because I live in a country where it sells and I see it for a long time. And don't get me wrong, maybe such units as Segotep, Vinga, spc, chieftec etc. seem good at first glance when it comes to electronics, but the lower price just doesn't come from anything and there must be saving somewhere like i wrote and such units should not be the first choice - that's why I suggested sorting .

[Juular]

21 minutes ago, Kaygooo said:

This is not an example 7 years ago but 7 hours ago.

Okay, even if it's recent, i'm sure you can find same types of feedback on any other brands, what matters is the ratio of bad to good feedback, what unit they were talking about specifically ? If there were some major widespread problems, high failure rate, some common problems, people would've talked about them. But it's not simple to determine if there's no problems just by looking at average user feedback anyway, i some widespread problems would come out we would make appropriate steps to warn people as it were with units in tier A- and D\E.

21 minutes ago, Kaygooo said:

And don't get me wrong, maybe such units as Segotep, Vinga, spc, chieftec etc. seem good at first glance when it comes to electronics, but the lower price just doesn't come from anything and there must be saving somewhere

You're buying a PSU, right ? What else do you expect from it other than being perfect electronics-wise ? Support and warranty are absolutely secondary to the quality and performance of the unit itself, and not everyone care about that even, in some cases there are no official warranty for better known brands and buying local brand assuming it's good quality might be better choice. No idea if there's support presence of Seasonic, Corsair & EVGA in Poland, you could probably at least ship stuff to Germany for that but i pretty sure it's not that simple in Ukraine for example, not to mention Oceania where local or 'Chinese' brands like Deepcool and Chieftec would have better presence. But again, it's completely up-to users to determine what they want warranty wise. We don't tier warranty, quality of support or 'trustworthness' of brands, only quality and performance of the specific units themselves. This is not brands tier list, but PSUs tier list.

 

And even if we wanted to sort brands by 'trustworthness' or smth, first, it's a whole lot of more work, second, it's completely subjective, whereas we're trying to get away from any subjectiveness in this tier list by placing specific requirements for tiers, if the unit qualifies for them then it would be tiered there, it's simple and objective.

[viceice]

rampage is removed? what happened? i asked about it a couple of weeks ago and now its being removed... was I right in a way? i predicted something was fishy about rampage being there but..

 

im here wwith anoter question, 

 

http://www.highpower-tech.com/OEM/products_main.php?class=20100527154206&id=20190624145944

 

any info on this PSU? what tier would this be in theory and assumpption? i cant find a damn review about it... 

[LukeSavenije]

6 minutes ago, viceice said:

rampage is removed? what happened?

we lacked info on some sides and were at the point that we would have to guess certain things, hence it's removal

[Juular]

8 minutes ago, viceice said:

rampage is removed? what happened? i asked about it a couple of weeks ago and now its being removed... was I right in a way? i predicted something was fishy about rampage being there but..

Basically, it looks like it's based on SAMA platform, they link PlugLoad report for SAMA Forza Gold on the product page and the casing looks like those on SAMA Forza. But, our friend @OrionFOTL says that this type of casing is very common Chinese noname PSUs (i personally haven't seen any tho aside SAMA ones), and more importantly, the looks of insides (specifically configuration of transient filter) we can see through grille doesn't match those for SAMA Forza. So because we don't have any pictures of it's insides and on the other hand have contradicting information about it - we removed it until we will get more info (pictures of it's insides will suffice to confirm or deny that it's SAMA Forza).

13 minutes ago, viceice said:

http://www.highpower-tech.com/OEM/products_main.php?class=20100527154206&id=20190624145944

any info on this PSU? what tier would this be in theory and assumpption? i cant find a damn review about it... 

No reviews or at least shots of insides of it i can find. Maybe Orion could help.

[Juular]

@viceice So update on Rampage PSUs, we added them back (or soon would, when Luke will be awake), i'll explain.

 

Rampage Everest ETX (Gold) :

1. Rampage links the PlugLoad report on the product page for SAMA Forza ETX, this is primary 'confirmation' that it's SAMA Forza.

2. Model prefix are the same. The box looks very close to what SAMA Forza OEM version and other rebrands like VIVO 24k use, with '24k Pure Gold' inscriptions and such. PSU casing are identical too (but this is thin grounds because of what Orion says).

3. Now to what we can see from it's insides. We don't have a clear shot which would've made this way easier, but we have a shot from product page of the back of PSU where mains outlet is, and we can see the configuration of transient filter.

It goes like this, at least what we see : Y-cap (blue, two in fact) -> X-cap (yellow box) -> choke -> heatsink -> film cap (red) -> another Y-cap

Spoiler

Now compare with SPC Supremo FM2 :

Spoiler

And as far as i'm aware, this specific configuration is pretty unique looking, so this could be considered secondary 'confirmation'.

Now, the fact that we can even see the transient filter in this unit is interesting because on all other modular versions of this platform (like in SPC Supremo FM2 pictured above, Vinga VPS-G 650W+ and Modecom Volcano) it's not visible due to how SAMA decided to just rotate PCB 90° to not bother with relocating secondary bus to connect it with modular connectors board, i guess Rampage convinced them to actually bother with this, pictures of insides would've really helped here but this is all we got.

 

What threw us off before, is that on older versions of this platform transient filter looked a bit different, enough to make make us think that this duck is actually not a duck. But recent reviews for this platform are hard to come by, i've found one from 2019 on Supremo FM2 with date on PCB of late 2018 (the shot above) so this is most likely what is used in all units based on this platform anyway, including the unit in question.

 

Rampage Everest Forza FTX (Platinum) :

1. Now this is pretty much obvious 'if it looks like duck and squeaks like a duck' case, they didn't even bother to remove 'Forza' from there, just replaced 'SAMA' with 'Rampage'.

2. And again, even not considering extreme similarities in the appearance box and casing, and 'FTX' prefix, if you look at the back of the unit, the configuration pretty much matches the one for Forza Platinum.

Picture from the product page :

Spoiler

Pictures of SAMA Forza Platinum :

Spoiler

 

https://www.technic3d.com/review/netzteile/2030-netzteil-inter-tech-sama-forza-1200-watt/1.htm

Again, the insistence of SAMA on 90° rotation of PCB to make connection to modular board easier (somewhat hurting the airflow but probably somewhat reducing ripple in the process) makes this platform pretty unique looking, you'll not find two hold-up caps close to exhaust grille on other platforms very frequently (if at all).

 

To sum up, both units appear to use SAMA Forza platforms Gold and Platinum with a good degree of confidence. They're still marked as temporary position because first, we don't have a pictures of insides, and second, we don't know what fan bearings they use (sleeve bearing would've detiered to tier B+).

[-The_Mask-]

On 3/19/2020 at 4:02 AM, juanme555 said:

Is this really Tier A??? They go for 65U$D in my country.

The right question would be: what's a tier A power supply?

 

In some Eastern European countries like for example Romania it's an interesting choice for it's price, because it's really cheap. But quality wise a GPxxxG can compete with a Corsair TXM 2017, which is actually in Tier B+.

[Juular]

17 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

The right question would be: what's a tier A power supply?

 

In some Eastern European countries like for example Romania it's an interesting choice for it's price, because it's really cheap. But quality wise a GPxxxG can compete with a Corsair TXM 2017, which is actually in Tier B+.

Judging by the limited info on how Enermax Platimax D.F <=750W performs (same platform) it can compete with pretty much everything in tier A hence it's placement but yeah, info is limited so it's good choice if it's cheap, nothing more.

[GreyestGoat]

Thank you for the list, i purchased the Leadex III GOLD 650W for my 2600X / 5700 XT build which will be overclocked.

[jm_bmw]

For a 9900KF paired w/ RTX2060 at stock, 2x M.2s and 3x 120mm led fans do I really need more than 450W? 
 

If yes, which one of those models would you recommend?
-XFX 650W TS 80 Plus Gold (P1-650G-TS3X)          
-XFX XTR2 650W 80 Plus Gold Modular (P1-0650-XTR2)
-Corsair 650W 80 Plus Bronze CX650  (non-M )  (CP-9020122 )

[Juular]

9 minutes ago, jm_bmw said:

For a 9900KF paired w/ RTX2060 at stock, 2x M.2s and 3x 120mm led fans do I really need more than 450W?

Not really, the only difference with better PSU would be noise output, if you're okay with the way it is currently then don't bother.

 

As of XFX, they don't make PSUs anymore. XTR2 are Seasonic Focus FX and TS are Seasonic G, both have some problems with GPU compatibility hence their placement in tier A- but if you're buying them for RTX2060 (or anything from nVidia sub RTX2080 Super really) both will be good. Be aware tho that the warranty for their PSU are effectively void, they don't replace them, in the case of failure they'll offer other XFX products i think (no idea what they could offer for the price of PSU since they primarily make only GPUs). Can't find source for this claim rn but i've seen some reports in the net.

[jm_bmw]

20 minutes ago, Juular said:

Not really, the only difference with better PSU would be noise output, if you're okay with the way it is currently then don't bother.

 

As of XFX, they don't make PSUs anymore. XTR2 are Seasonic Focus FX and TS are Seasonic G, both have some problems with GPU compatibility hence their placement in tier A- but if you're buying them for RTX2060 (or anything from nVidia sub RTX2080 Super really) both will be good. Be aware tho that the warranty for their PSU are effectively void, they don't replace them, in the case of failure they'll offer other XFX products i think (no idea what they could offer for the price of PSU since they primarily make only GPUs). Can't find source for this claim rn but i've seen some reports in the net.

 

Thank you, most people (to not say everyone) here in Brazil tech forums recommends 650W+ PSUs for a system like this, so I am trying to research as for my usage it seems perfectly fine and the pc is quiet. And good to know about XFX PSUs, I guess this is why they are the cheapest tier A- in the stores here.

 

 

[lewdicrous]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:15 PM, LukeSavenije said:

Thermaltake Toughpower Grand Gold RGB: Shutdown issues with multi-GPU setups

Is there a threshold where this won't be an issue?

I'm planning on hooking up a 1070 (150W) and a 1060 (120W) for folding, will that lead to shutdowns?

 

Note: Might disable CPU folding, hope that keeps it happy.

[LukeSavenije]

1 hour ago, lewdicrous said:

Is there a threshold where this won't be an issue?

i can't name an exact one, but the reports that I've seen were with much higher end GPUs than that, so in theory you should be fine

[lewdicrous]

12 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

i can't name an exact one, but the reports that I've seen were with much higher end GPUs than that, so in theory you should be fine

Gonna try it and I'll let you know if it works or not.

[Nlelith]

So, Enermax Revolution D. F. 750W I got for my RTX 2080Ti seems to engage some sort of protection when I play demanding games (CoD:MW with RTX on, AC:Odyssey on Ultra). What happens is system simply shuts down for ~5 seconds and then starts again normally, nothing out of the ordinary otherwise. Searched for this problem, and people on various forums suggest to power up GPU with two different cables, instead of one that splits into two 8-pins. Now, I'm not sure if it's advisable to still use one rail for that or should I split it between two different ones... Full tech specs can be found on this page, and here's rail distribution pic:

 

I can either use both cables on 12V4, or one on 12V3 and other on 12V4? Not sure second option is safe.