[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[vformula00]

For the Cybernetics reports on PSUs, which spec in the reports is what I look for when looking at electronic noise (ripples) and consistent output? I am thinking of upgrading my old PSU beside getting a new unit for my second computer. I am probably looking to rebuild my old computer into audio production unit.

[LukeSavenije]

41 minutes ago, vformula00 said:

For the Cybernetics reports on PSUs, which spec in the reports is what I look for when looking at electronic noise (ripples) and consistent output?

those aren't really found inside this report, rather on Aris's reviews on Tomshardware, Kitguru (though most of these are by Zardon) and Techpowerup

 

the closest you'll find is this in it (NZXT C)

[gamer from the 3rd world]

so the segotep puls gold 600w is actually a god psu?

[Juular]

3 hours ago, gamer from the 3rd world said:

Should I go for gigabyte G750H 750w or Seasonic GM-750?

There are two Seasonic GMs, Focus and Core, former is in tier A, latter in tier B+, Gigabyte GH is in between of them, it's tier A but on the lowest side. Segotep GP-600G is good (on the lower side of tier A but better than Gigabyte), we're not sure if GP-650G uses the same platform tho (edited).

[gamer from the 3rd world]

3 minutes ago, Juular said:

There are two Seasonic GMs, Focus and Core, former is in tier A, latter in tier B+, Gigabyte GH is in between of them, it's tier A but on the lowest side.

yeah we don't really have the seasonic focus gm right now, it is in fact the focus fm.

 

So I guess I'll buy the gigabyte.

 

But what about the segotep 600w 80 plus gold? Tier A also

[Juular]

4 minutes ago, gamer from the 3rd world said:

yeah we don't really have the seasonic focus gm right now, it is in fact the focus fm.

If you don't plan to use AMD Vega with it, Focus FM is fine too.

[LukeSavenije]

22 minutes ago, Juular said:

GP-650G is good (on the lower side of tier A but better than Gigabyte), we're not sure if GP-600G uses the same platform.

other way around, we do know of gp-600g

[Juular]

3 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

other way around, we do know of gp-600g

Uh, right.

[boghubodaghi]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:05 PM, Juular said:

Okay, a little update, after some internal talk it turned out that what Luke meant by 'Recommended for 650W+ systems' in tier A+ description actually means =>750W.

Hmm... Weird. If that's true no 650W PSUs should be on A+. Simple arithmethics, no?

 

On 5/12/2020 at 3:05 PM, Juular said:

And while i were voting for 850W and to split off lower wattage units i understand the reasoning behind this. Even with lowest wattage PSUs, 450W, the difference between OCP on single and multi-rail units would be around 30% (35A vs 45A), it's already 40-70% on 550W and 60-100% on 650W. That's a lot of difference, and while there are no research to show at which currents multi-rail actually starts to matter, regardless, even lowest wattage PSU assuming it's already good enough electrically and costs the same as comparable single-rail unit would be better from safety perspective.

 

On second point, we already have those requirements for Gold color (again, shown in the above screenshots), there are quite a few of units that qualify for that so separating them to their own tiers doesn't make much sense perhaps (and we'll need to make yet another tier as there such units that are single-rail), but just differentiating them with different color would be more flexible way.

I agree that the number should be 800-850W, too. I understand why some are paranoid to consider 80A (average +12V OPP tripping on 750 W PSUs) to be dangerous enough to cause burns. With smaller number it gets more and more arguable, especially considering the fact that this might skew the tier list quite a lot. That was the whole point of the discussion.

 

As for the second point, you are right on the too few PSU per tier argument. But shouldn't that be the case for "two top tiers of PSUs"? Like I said, "this tier should be the second best PSUs available on the market, so they better be ridiculously good." You don't really need to do anything to single-rail PSUs, as the main separating point for this new tier and tier A is multi-rail OCP.

 

Also, I have another idea. You can merge tier S and A+, with units with much higher quality given special colours and ones that we've been discussing (such as the BQ, Vengeance silver, etc.) moved a tier down to A with few notes.

[Juular]

9 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Also, I have another idea. You can merge tier S and A+, with units with much higher quality given special colours and ones that we've been discussing (such as the BQ, Vengeance silver, etc.) moved a tier down to A with few notes.

You don't follow me, we already did that, which i said twice already, we merged tier S to tier A+ and tier A- to tier A and given gold color go best units in tier (as in units from tier S in tier A+) and gray color to so-so units or otherwise the ones we're not quite sure about (like most of previously tier A- units).

I've posted some screenshots above, hopefully we'll see this revision going live in a week or so (after Luke would find the sneaky edit button).

[boghubodaghi]

5 hours ago, Juular said:

You don't follow me, we already did that, which i said twice already, we merged tier S to tier A+ and tier A- to tier A and given gold color go best units in tier (as in units from tier S in tier A+) and gray color to so-so units or otherwise the ones we're not quite sure about (like most of previously tier A- units).

I've posted some screenshots above, hopefully we'll see this revision going live in a week or so (after Luke would find the sneaky edit button).

You only mentioned about merging S and A+ and give gold and gray colours, which would make further confusion as those gray PSUs tend to not be as good as the best A tier PSUs (even when considering the amount of amps on +12V when the PSU starts tripping). This is the objection I was trying to make all along. You didn't mention anything about the so-so PSUs we're discussing going down a tier. Also no mention of Vreg, ripple, etc. requirements to be made tighter.

 

You guys should also make the boundary clear. If 750 W is where it starts to matter, then <=650 W PSUs shouldn't be on the list unless it greatly stands out from others.

 

But I guess I was asking to much from you guys, please go ahead with the current revision. I don't want to delay any of that. Maybe you can consider doing this in the revision after.

[Juular]

22 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

You didn't mention anything about the so-so PSUs we're discussing going down a tier. Also no mention of Vreg, ripple, etc. requirements to be made tighter.

Weird, anyway, It's all in the changelog, which is in the spreadsheet, take a look at it.

Gray color is essentially replaces tier A- and poses the same function inside tier A but now we can mark so units from other tiers too without adding a new tier for each one.

22 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

You guys should also make the boundary clear. If 750 W is where it starts to matter, then <=650 W PSUs shouldn't be on the list unless it greatly stands out from others.

That's what i've called a vote for, team decided not to split off low wattage units. I can understand that, even if we recommend multi-rail for only 750W+ builds, lower wattage units still there as a indication that they're multi-rail and for example, if you see tier A+ unit and tier A unit assuming they're both white (so they're both average), then tier A+ unit would be preferable. This makes sense actually.

[boghubodaghi]

1 hour ago, Juular said:

Gray color is essentially replaces tier A- and poses the same function inside tier A but now we can mark so units from other tiers too without adding a new tier for each one.

That's not a tier lower, that's just a different colour. That poses the same issue we're discussing all along. No mention of tightening requirements either.

 

1 hour ago, Juular said:

That's what i've called a vote for, team decided not to split off low wattage units. I can understand that, even if we recommend multi-rail for only 750W+ builds, lower wattage units still there as a indication that they're multi-rail and for example, if you see tier A+ unit and tier A unit assuming they're both white (so they're both average), then tier A+ unit would be preferable. This makes sense actually.

They all don't necessarily need to be automatically split between different tiers. This isn't an issue when talking about A+ units that are as good as the best A units out there e.g. BWG 650, RMi 650. The problem is for A+ units that performs the same as the lower spectrum of A PSUs but goes to a higher tier when it has multi-rails e.g. BQ SP11, BFG 650. Since the boundary is set at 750W (which I and you both disagree, but still understands the reasoning), these 650W units should be moved down. The boundary is set at 750. This is the importnat distortion that we've been talking about all along.

[Juular]

@boghubodaghi

1) I don't see the issue, it's pretty obvious IMO that inside a tier, priority for units choice goes like this Gold > White > Gray, in fact, it were less obvious before when we marked temporary position units just with italics. And tier S and A- had their own problems, fragmenting the tier list making it harder for a newbie to pick a PSU because for example, they see a Seasonic Focus FX in tier A- and Focus GX in tier A, they think that they're different and one is really worse than other, where the only difference there is that one doesn't work with Vegas and would be perfectly good choice otherwise. Same for tier S, it were standing out and honestly i wanted to merge it for a long time but we didn't have a way to do that, now we have. Although, maybe we should make it clearer that units marked with Gray should be really last picks, i.e Gold units from previous tier should be more preferable, but i can't think of the way to word that concise enough.

2) We've already discussed splitting of sub 750W units from tier A+ enough, with you and inside a team, it's not going to happen any time soon. And if you want to just split off 'inferior' units from there, we'll need to revise requirements for the tier which is against a purpose of tier A+, it's difference with tier A is strictly in the multi-rail as it's a complementary tier, if you disregard multi-rail then tier A+ and A are the same, if you wish, tier A+ is strictly informational tier, just telling you that those units are multi-rail, they're not inherently better because of that if you're not buying a very high wattage unit, 1.2kW maybe where multi-rail becomes an absolute must-have IMO. If anything, we could tighten requirements for tier A too then but this isn't going to happen soon either for reasons discussed above.

[Tautedorus]

Recently I've been looking for more information about some Deepcool power supplies that are quite popular where I'm from. More specifically, I was curious about the DA series power supplies that are currently placed in the tier C. What I found out is that there are two versions of these units -- the older one that has group regulation and the newer one with DC-DC.

 

These are the old models with group regulation:

• DP-BZ-DA500 (internals)
• DP-BZ-DA600 (internals)

These are newer ones with DC-DC (there is a letter 'N' at the end of the model name):

• DP-BZ-DA500N (internals)
• DP-BZ-DA600N (internals)

There is also a DP-BZ-DA700N which is clearly a group regulated unit (internals) that also has a letter 'N' in the model name.

So my question is, should these newer models (apart from that 700W model) be split and placed higher in the tier list? I only found the Cybenetics report for the older DP-BZ-DA500 (which I guess was used to determine its place in the tier list; it's not specified in the sources though) but haven't found anything about the newer ones, unfortunately.

[Juular]

@Tautedorus Good find. DA-500/600N indeed looks like DC-DC and they claim DC-DC on specs sheet. Although i can't recognize this platform, must be some unknown OEM, we'll add DA-N in next revision with 500/600W being in tier B (grayed out, i.e not recommended if you have anything else) and 700W in tier C then.

[Blueaid]

Anyone have any thoughts on the SilverStone ET650-G? I see its currently listed as B+ tier. The specs can be found here as well, https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=767

 

I've tried to do research on it myself and look into any reviews I can before I posted here but there are very little to check out. The two or three that I can find seem positive.

[Juular]

8 minutes ago, Blueaid said:

SilverStone ET650-G?

There are no good reviews on it but you can see there :

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/SILVERSTONE_Essential_series_750W_4.html

That it uses CWT GPS platform and here are reviews on other PSUs using it :

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-revolution-xt-ii-750w-power-supply,4549.html

https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2016/05/23/enermax-revolution-xt-ii-750w-power-supply/

https://www.eteknix.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx1-600w-power-supply-review/

https://www.eteknix.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx1-psu-review/

Overall it's a decent budget platform.

[Blueaid]

15 minutes ago, Juular said:

There are no good reviews on it but you can see there :

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/SILVERSTONE_Essential_series_750W_4.html

That it uses CWT GPS platform and here are reviews on other PSUs using it :

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-revolution-xt-ii-750w-power-supply,4549.html

https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2016/05/23/enermax-revolution-xt-ii-750w-power-supply/

https://www.eteknix.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx1-600w-power-supply-review/

https://www.eteknix.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx1-psu-review/

Overall it's a decent budget platform.

Appreciate the info

[boghubodaghi]

Maybe I need to be clearer. My proposed solution has always been in line with all of your ideas and explanation and will not be cumbersome. Merge tier S and A+, but tighten the requirements on this new tier. PSUs that we are objecting will go down a tier and everyone will be happy. Easy. Forget about the maths on "750", "650+", splitting of low wattage units, etc. Those were red herring discussions.

[ChrisZaro]

I am not expert, but EVGA's BQ series is splitted in two categories: a) 650/750/850 and b) 500/600 and I think there are significant differences because they have 5 and 3 years warranty respectively. I compared EVGA BQ 650 with Seasonic S12iii, which is in the same rank, and I found out that BQ 650 has OCP protection (and also 3.3 and 5 combined give 30 watt more), but Seasonic S12iii lacks of it. At the same time, Gigabyte P650B has OCP protection and it is ranked higher. In the Methodology, you don't require OCP, but "independent regulation", something I don't understand, because I am no expert, but I wasn't able to find/track it either at gigabyte's site or at your russian site source. 
I just feel BQ is underrated, that's all.

[Juular]

@ChrisZaro We addressed that in the pending revision, you can see the changelog in the spreadsheet.

[EmotionLogic]

Can ya'll rank Seasonic's somewhat new Prime Fanless TX 700W?

They also have a 500W and 450W Fanless as well if ya'll can rank that too.

[Juular]

2 minutes ago, EmotionLogic said:

Can ya'll rank Seasonic's somewhat new Prime Fanless TX 700W?

They also have a 500W and 450W Fanless as well if ya'll can rank that too.

It's already there.

[EmotionLogic]

2 minutes ago, Juular said:

It's already there.

Ah I'm sorry. I thought those only applied to their old fanless 600W and 400W models.