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[psucultists] PSU Tier List

Spotty

For help choosing a power supply please Create a New Thread asking for assistance including your budget and system hardware to receive the best answers relevant to your specific needs.

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Hi guys,

 

What would you choose between:

Seasonic Focus GX 650W -- 105$

Superflower Leadex GOLD III 650w - 95$

Corsair RM650 650w - 100$

I want to power a Vega64 Nitro+ & Ryzen 3600

Thank you:)

 

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Hello,

Which one should I get between the Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W ARGB (10 years with BURN warranty) (Tier A) & Antec HCP 1000W(7 year warranty) (Tier S)?

 

Reading the methodology, I don’t see too much improvement from tier A to S. Besides the 3 year extra warranty is really tempting. 
 

please suggest which one should I get?

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1 hour ago, Newbie0 said:

Which one should I get between the Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 850W ARGB (10 years with BURN warranty) (Tier A) & Antec HCP 1000W(7 year warranty) (Tier S)?

I have a feeling that you don't need neither, what are your PC specs ?


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1 hour ago, Juular said:

I have a feeling that you don't need neither, what are your PC specs ?

2x sapphire nitro+ Rx 580

ryzen 1600x. 
 

yes I don’t need any of them right now. But I’m buying these for future upgrades & I don’t have many choices as the stocks in my country is limited in the top tiers.  
 

please suggest me which one should I get between these.  

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@Newbie0 Thing is, you need to decide what you'll be upgrading to. If that would be dual high-end GPUs, like RTX2080 or even some AMD room heaters then definitely Antec HCP Plat since it's multi-rail and 850W would be a bit low anyway. If it would be just one high-end GPU then assuming that GF1 is considerably cheaper - go for it, why not, but in this case you don't need 850W, and maybe there would be some 650\750W PSU for cheaper.


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16 minutes ago, Juular said:

@Newbie0 Thing is, you need to decide what you'll be upgrading to. If that would be dual high-end GPUs, like RTX2080 or even some AMD room heaters then definitely Antec HCP Plat since it's multi-rail and 850W would be a bit low anyway. If it would be just one high-end GPU then assuming that GF1 is considerably cheaper - go for it, why not, but in this case you don't need 850W, and maybe there would be some 650\750W PSU for cheaper.

Both PSU price is same in my country. Plus I can’t find any top tier PSU in 750W range. 
 

I’m just Trying to comparing both PSU about the quality and reliability. And my PC literally runs 20 hours a day (with load sometimes) as it’s used by me & my brother. 

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Just now, Newbie0 said:

BAnd my PC literally runs 20 hours a day

That's no problem whatsoever if you don't buy 30°C shit.


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1 minute ago, Juular said:

That's no problem whatsoever if you don't buy 30°C shit.

Thanks a lot man. I’ll be going for the TT then. 

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23 hours ago, Juular said:

 

 

- - -

 

@Dhonny Third link doesn't work for me. Choosing from those options, cheapest one, Gigabyte P650B would be okay. But with this GPU i'd recommend smth better, Gigabyte G750H probably since there are no other alternatives in high-end-ish range unless you go all the way to 14-15k ones like Seasonic Focus. I'm not entirely sure about that Segotep GP700, it may be on different platform than GP650.

 

- - -

 

Thank you man for your help. 

Now, im not arguing, just trying to learn. How could you know that the more expensive GB PSU would it be ok if it's not tested? Or it's just assumed because it's a more high end one of the same line up of PSU?

Also, now i have available this one for the same price: Seasonic FM 750W

Would that be a better choise?

And finally, i'm helping a friend build his first PC. I'ts basically the same as mine (r5 3600, etc) but with a 1660 super GPU.

Dou you reckon that something like this would be ok?

DeepCool DA500W

 

Thank you again brother. You are being very helpful.

 

Edit: Grammar

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4 hours ago, Dhonny said:

How could you know that the more expensive GB PSU would it be ok if it's not tested?

It kinda were.

https://ru.gecid.com/power/gigabyte_gp-g750h/?s=all

Not very reliable review so data is useless but we see there that it's CWT GPS platform so it's fine, we have a bunch of good reviews on other PSUs using it.

4 hours ago, Dhonny said:

Also, now i have available this one for the same price: Seasonic FM 750W

This should be better choice, yes.

4 hours ago, Dhonny said:

Dou you reckon that something like this would be ok? DeepCool DA500W

Nope. Gigabyte P650B would as it's cheapest DC-DC unit i see there aside of CM MWE V2 which has issues with high ripple.


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27 minutes ago, Juular said:

It kinda were.

https://ru.gecid.com/power/gigabyte_gp-g750h/?s=all

Not very reliable review so data is useless but we see there that it's CWT GPS platform so it's fine, we have a bunch of good reviews on other PSUs using it.

This should be better choice, yes.

Nope. Gigabyte P650B would as it's cheapest DC-DC unit i see there aside of CM MWE V2 which has issues with high ripple.

Thanks man!!

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4 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/be-quiet-straight-power-11-650w-platinum-power-supply-review/3

 

This PSU makes it to tier Tier A+ because it has "better protection features" while having most of its protections improperly configured? V reg is also bad

12V rail v.reg. within 1%, yes, that's higher than some other high-end PSUs but still well within comfortable limits. I see nothing about protections being improperly configured, yes, 12V rails are high but 40A is still rather low compared to 120A+ OCP of single-rail high-wattage PSUs like beloved Seasonic Prime 1.3kW and EVGA P2\T2 \ SF Leadex 1.2kW+, hence it's placement in multi-rail tier. I don't care about OCP limits on minor rails as long as v.reg. is still in specs, you barely would use them anyway, certainly not to those current levels, if anything that would be a plus for those who want to build high-HDD count NAS systems. Additionally, this quite possibly could be early sample, with changes being done to production revision after feedback from reviewers.


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3 hours ago, Juular said:

12V rail v.reg. within 1%, yes, that's higher than some other high-end PSUs but still well within comfortable limits. I see nothing about protections being improperly configured, yes, 12V rails are high but 40A is still rather low compared to 120A+ OCP of single-rail high-wattage PSUs like beloved Seasonic Prime 1.3kW and EVGA P2\T2 \ SF Leadex 1.2kW+, hence it's placement in multi-rail tier. I don't care about OCP limits on minor rails as long as v.reg. is still in specs, you barely would use them anyway, certainly not to those current levels, if anything that would be a plus for those who want to build high-HDD count NAS systems. Additionally, this quite possibly could be early sample, with changes being done to production revision after feedback from reviewers.

The PSU competes not with 1k+ PSUs. It competes with the likes of PX-650, RM-650x, Leadex III 650, etc. Most of them has OCP/OPP on the +12V set at 65-70A. What exact difference would that make granting this BQ on a higher tier? 2+% V Reg on the 3.3V shouldn't be acceptable and gets into group regulated territory. Ripple is also worse than the PSU mentioned earlier. It can't even reach 70% efficiency on extremely low loads. If it's an early sample, only the protections can be reconfigured. Other performance metrics won't be fixed. I can see why the Bitfenix Whisper gets a higher tier, but not this BQ.

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Just now, boghubodaghi said:

The PSU competes not with 1k+ PSUs. It competes with the likes of PX-650, RM-650x, Leadex III 650, etc. Most of them has OCP/OPP on the +12V set at 65-70A.

40A is still lower than 65-70A, isn't it ?

1 minute ago, boghubodaghi said:

exact difference would that make granting this BQ on a higher tier?

Multi-rail ? Did you read the methodology ?

1 minute ago, boghubodaghi said:

2+% V Reg on the 3.3V shouldn't be acceptable and gets into group regulated territory.

I couldn't care less about 3.3V rail load reg as long as it's still in specs. Modern PCs barely use it, some (most ?) motherboards use dedicated DC-DC for 3.3V generation anyway.

3 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Ripple is also worse than the PSU mentioned earlier.

And it's still very good, 30mV is by no means a bad ripple level, there's very few PSUs that have less ripple, in fact we'll mark those PSUs separately in the next revision. And by the way, Seasonic Focus Gold has about 40mV ripple, does that make it a bad PSU ? Not.

5 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

It can't even reach 70% efficiency on extremely low loads.

Since when efficiency is a metric of PSU performance ? While high load efficiency can be somewhat relevant because this affects PSU thermals, but low load efficiency is completely irrelevant if you don't count cents per year.

 

We could add another 5 tiers to granulate high-end PSUs better to place PSUs with slightly better overall performance like those you mentioned above PSUs that look somewhat mediocre by high-tier options means but that would be a hell to maintain and navigate. Instead of that, again, we will implement two colors to highlight lower than average and higher than average units in the tier, requirements for that are already in the updated methodology located in the spreadsheet, so it a changelog for pending revision.


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34 minutes ago, Juular said:

40A is still lower than 65-70A, isn't it ? Multi-rail? Did you read the methodology ?

Of course it is lower, but what exact difference would that make granting this BQ on a higher tier? You guys chose the methodology, and it shouldn't be brought to justify anything. It shouldn't place worse PSUs on a higher tier.

 

34 minutes ago, Juular said:

I couldn't care less about 3.3V rail load reg as long as it's still in specs. Modern PCs barely use it, some (most ?) motherboards use dedicated DC-DC for 3.3V generation anyway. And it's still very good, 30mV is by no means a bad ripple level, there's very few PSUs that have less ripple, in fact we'll mark those PSUs separately in the next revision. And by the way, Seasonic Focus Gold has about 40mV ripple, does that make it a bad PSU ? Not.

Still doesn't change the fact that three out of the four PSUs I mentioned has less than 20mV ripple on the +12V rail and even less on the minor rails. All of them have less than 1% V.Reg. 3.3 VDC is feed straight into HDDs and SATA SSDs, so while you may not care, it still matters. If it doesn't matter, does anything matter more than anything else? Why does OCP matter above anything else anyway? It only protects you in shorts, and the protection isn't absolute either.

 

34 minutes ago, Juular said:

Since when efficiency is a metric of PSU performance ? While high load efficiency can be somewhat relevant because this affects PSU thermals, but low load efficiency is completely irrelevant if you don't count cents per year.

Yes, it's very nitpicky, but I brought it up just to tell you the long list of metrics that the BQ lacks over its main competitor. Yet, it is placed on a "higher tier".

 

34 minutes ago, Juular said:

We could add another 5 tiers to granulate high-end PSUs better to place PSUs with slightly better overall performance like those you mentioned above PSUs that look somewhat mediocre by high-tier options means but that would be a hell to maintain and navigate.

You guys don't have to make an over complicated list, all you have to do is change the methodology so it doesn't skew OCP too much. I am objecting to why better PSUs are placed at the same tier or even lower than worse PSUs, especially the A+ and A category. Many that read this list are newbies trying to build their first PC, so they don't bother reading the methodology because they won't understand a thing. They could end up in a worse PSU just because the tiers indicate so.

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21 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Of course it is lower, but what exact difference would that make granting this BQ on a higher tier? You guys chose the methodology, and it shouldn't be brought to justify anything. It shouldn't place worse PSUs on a higher tier.

The sole purpose of tier A+ is to highlight multi-rail units, 40A vs 70A might not sound like a big difference but that's 1.5x more current, and if you look at 1.3-1.6kW units the difference would be enough to make a little explosion in your PC if smth shorts. It's not a common situation but we feel that users need to know that there are PSUs with more protections (multi-rail is an essentially yet another protection). The PSUs themselves can be worse, but if you're buying 850W+ PSU we feel that you should look at multi-rail assuming the performance are good enough, and since there are performance requirements in place for tier A and above - anything in tier A+ would be good enough for high-end market, there are definitely better units from tier A than some tier A+ ones if we disregard multi-rail, if you or someone else feels that it's not relevant then just treat both tier A and A+ as equal.

21 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Still doesn't change the fact that three out of the four PSUs I mentioned has less than 20mV ripple on the +12V rail and even less on the minor rails.

You've managed to pick quite good units ripple-wise, there are very few units on the same level other than those, or rather very few platforms since most of them are based on either Seasonic Prime or CWT GPR\GPU and Corsair HX custom.

21 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

3.3 VDC is feed straight into HDDs and SATA SSDs, so while you may not care, it still matters.

Nope, HDDs work on 5V and 12V. SSDs do work on 3.3V IIRC but do they need this level of voltage accuracy ? They do not.

21 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

Many that read this list are newbies trying to build their first PC, so they don't bother reading the methodology because they won't understand a thing.

That's why we specifically named tier A and A+ as such to highlight that you only need tier A+ if you have high-wattage system. Whether a newbie does realize that their gaming system wouldn't need more than 650W PSU regardless of hardware is unrelated question but still.

21 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

They could end up in a worse PSU just because the tiers indicate so.

If so - barely. Again, we have requirements for all tier A and up units in place so you can literally pick any of them, they would be good enough electrically. And again, we implemented another level of so to say tiering with gray and gold colors in the pending revision. Like that :

Spoiler

h.PNG.bd9abcbfdaf4b74874d4b3c1a5b1b4ba.PNG

a.PNG.c3db21343043e9968804cd295ca82b5f.PNG

2.PNG.284d9fc134640915903036284561b782.PNG

3.PNG.d9c96457f48ea12eadaea6c771bb259a.PNG

 

 


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57 minutes ago, Juular said:

The sole purpose of tier A+ is to highlight multi-rail units, 40A vs 70A might not sound like a big difference but that's 1.5x more current, and if you look at 1.3-1.6kW units the difference would be enough to make a little explosion in your PC if smth shorts. It's not a common situation but we feel that users need to know that there are PSUs with more protections (multi-rail is an essentially yet another protection).

Yes, I think that's the problem. Your priority towards multi-rail OCP on PSUs is too much so it skews the list on situations where it almost does not matter. We're talking about 650 W PSUs here, and what exact difference does that 1.7x more current makes? Not too much when something shorts. If we're talking about >3x then it starts to become a concern. This is where the problem is, it makes worse, <850W PSUs at a higher tier than much better units and that's not something that should happen. 

 

57 minutes ago, Juular said:

Nope, HDDs work on 5V and 12V. SSDs do work on 3.3V IIRC but do they need this level of voltage accuracy ? They do not.

You sure? Cut the orange power cables on your HDD, it might render that SATA power cable useless on HDDs. I don't know for sure what the percentages are like, but I'm pretty sure a significant portion of drives still use 3.3, especially low power ones (2.5" drives). All components need voltage accuracy, the accurate it is the better. How much accurate? How important is the accuracy? That will require extensive testings that we will never be able to do, but can't the same be said for 1.7x higher OCP limit? It's about the scale of importance of very detailed things that all might not matter 99.9% of the time

 

57 minutes ago, Juular said:

That's why we specifically named tier A and A+ as such to highlight that you only need tier A+ if you have high-wattage system. Whether a newbie does realize that their gaming system wouldn't need more than 650W PSU regardless of hardware is unrelated question but still.

If that's the case then the BQ PSU shouldn't be higher up the list! If you guys are making a new version - which is great and I'd appreciate that greatly, please consider my feedback. It seems that the screenshot will make nice changes, but I'll still make an objection when this BQ PSU stays at a higher tier than other, better PSUs.

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Yo!

 

I wonder why I'm not finding any information on the FSP Hydro G Pro 750w psu.

It seems to be in the A tier, and i ordered it going by that, but i just noticed it seems to be out of stock everywhere.

I can't find a single review on them. Makes me wonder if I've made the right choice between that and the RM750x

I remember FSP from many years ago, they've been making PSU's for a long time now.

Any thoughts?

hl_screenshot_20190726080256_1_original_760x760.jpg

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25 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

All components need voltage accuracy, the accurate it is the better. How much accurate? How important is the accuracy? That will require extensive testings that we will never be able to do, but can't the same be said for 1.7x higher OCP limit? It's about the scale of importance of very detailed things that all might not matter 99.9% of the time

Thing is, voltage regulation is already concerned, it's 1.5% for . Can we tighten it ? Certainly but given that this almost certainly wouldn't have any effect on components reliability (the difference between 1.5% and 0.5-1.0% or 3% which is default for tier A), that's honestly would be too much hassle for us (checking all tier A units again), we're trying to write out all data from Aris reviews (as the most reliably source) so we'll have all the data in one place in more accessible way, but this goes very slowly, until then don't expect anything to change in this regard.

And again, just because tier A+ exist it doesn't mean that all tier A+ units are better than A, it's a complementary tier (hence the +), if you disregard multirail - please do so. But a newbie coming here would see that tier A+ units are better at least when it's a high wattage PSU, that 650W number may be a bit higher honestly, about 850W but still.

25 minutes ago, boghubodaghi said:

BQ PSU shouldn't be higher up the list!

Again, it's there because it fits there according to methodology. We're marking not so good units inside a tier with gray color now which still fit this tier otherwise, which you can see in the screenshot above but unless we'll make changes to methodology for voltage regulation (which seems to be main reason why you're talking about that bq! PSU at all here) - we can't move it down. And again, changes to methodology wouldn't happen at least until we'll finish writing down Aris reviews data.

18 minutes ago, Shuten. said:

I wonder why I'm not finding any information on the FSP Hydro G Pro 750w psu

Review for 850W version, it should be pretty much identical performance wise to 750W one. And otherwise it's just somewhat improved Hydro G.

Between it and RMx, well, RMx would've been bit better overall (voltage reg., ripple and acoustics) but if FSP was cheaper then it was a better choice as the difference doesn't warrant significantly higher price in this case (like 10-15$+ or so).


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6 minutes ago, Juular said:

Review for 850W version, it should be pretty much identical performance wise to 750W one. And otherwise it's just somewhat improved Hydro G.

Between it and RMx, well, RMx would've been bit better overall (voltage reg., ripple and acoustics) but if FSP was cheaper then it was a better choice as the difference doesn't warrant significantly higher price in this case (like 10$+ or so).

Thank you, well i got it for ~$100 while the RM750x was priced at ~$123.

I wanted the RM750x, but it wasn't in stock, and after i ordered the FSP, it turned out it wasn't in stock either, even tho the site said so.

I'll have to wait until the 18th of may until my package leaves the store. ;(

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Are the Seasonic Prime series PSUs in any way better than the Seasonic Focus series PSUs?

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6 minutes ago, ZeRedz said:

Are the Seasonic Prime series PSUs in any way better than the Seasonic Focus series PSUs?

Yes, not significantly tho, worth paying 5-10$ more maybe at most.


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Hey, guys! I'm going to be buying a PSU sometime in the future and I'm kind of paranoid about getting a PSU that's part of a bad batch. Is there any way I can safeguard myself from purchasing a PSU that's part of a bad batch? Is there any forum site or thread that I can use for reference?

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