Ryzen 3000 RAM Frequency sweet spot

[thiste]

Hello everyone,

 

So I have been thinking & looking to build a new rig & have a bazillion questions. But I'll start with RAM:

 

My platform of choice is a Ryzen 3700x with Asus TUF Gaming MB. Here's my understanding of RAM frequencies for this: according to this graph (attached image below), the so-called "sweet spot" for Zen 3 RAM is 3733Mhz at CL17. Many people choose to buy 3600Mhz CL16 because it's a lot more readily available & cheap than 3733CL17. I have been looking at G.Skill 32GB (2x16) 3600CL16 that I should be able to get around 225€.

 

However I just stumbled upon a pretty cheap Patriot Viper 3733CL17, but it's not on the Zen 3 list of supported RAMs ( pdf here ). Comments on Amazon do say there is zero compatibility issue though. This is a 2x8GB set so I would want to double that to get 32GB ( 2 x 86€ = 172€ total ).

So my questions are:

 

- Is this a good opportunity to get a native 3733CL17 for a good price? Is frequency more important than brand? The chip brand isn't disclosed but there are hints that this is a Hynix kit rather than a Samsung. Is Patriot a reputable/reliable RAM brand?

 

- Should I instead stick with 3600CL16 with a bigger brand like G.Skill & pay 53€ more? 

 

- Are there performance differences between 2 sticks of 16GB  and 4x8GB? If yes, what are they?

 

- Might I try to find a 3600CL17 instead, and overclock it to 3733Mhz? I'm no overclocking expert, but it should be doable, wouldn't it?

 

 

Again, keep in mind the 53€ difference, that not negligible.

 

Thank you all for the help!

 

P.S.: the G.Skill 3600CL16 is Samsung 16-16-16-36, the Patriot Viper is claimed at 17-19-19-39, the G.Skill 3600CL17 is Samsung 17-19-19-39.

 

EDIT: modified title according to comment below.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by thiste
title error fixed

[GoldenLag]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/w3FKHx/gskill-trident-z-neo-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-32gtznc

 

if you must have 3600mhz and dont want to tweak anything. 

 

here is some Hynix CJR. 

 

if you can tweak something and you dont mind a tiny drop in performance. 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/tJKcCJ/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-bls2k16g4d32aesb

 

here is Micron E-die. better suited for high capacity. and you can get a lot out of these if you do some manual tweaking. 

 

 

 

also the slide you are showing is AMD marketing material. 

 

also its Zen 2, but Ryzen 3/ Ryzen 3000. Zen 3 is next year with Ryzen 4/ Ryzen 4000

 

edit: what country? i just plugged in some good kits, but its us pricing

 

[GoldenLag]

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/tJKcCJ/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-bls2k16g4d32aesb

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/product/w3FKHx/gskill-trident-z-neo-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-32gtznc

 

german pricing, if i were you, id just grab the crucial ballistics kit. 

 

if you are to upgrade to 64GB of Ram, you will have a lot more success

[WereCat]

Unless you go for the looks then just grab the Crucial Ballistix kit. 

 

I have 4x16GB 3200MHz CL16 kit and I can run it on 3600MHz CL14 and 3733MHz CL16. 

I haven't tested my OC extensively for the stability yet but it passed one full Memtest run which takes about 2.5h with 64GB and 3900X.

I should run it at least 4 times to verify the stability but I haven't had that kind of time yet. 

 

However so far I had no issues. 

(But I do need 1.4V to 1.45V for 3600MHz CL14, the 3733MHz CL16 runs on lower voltages. Micron says their E-Die is rated up to 1.5V so it should be fine.). 

[thiste]

Thank you for the help, GoldenLag.

 

Sorry I wasn't clear, I'm indeed already tracking the Trident Z Neo 3600C16D-32GTZNC, that's the one I referred to being able to get for around €225. I'm in France btw

 

So, going back to the Patriot Viper PV416G373C7K, is there a specific reason to not buy them? I'm interested in the logic behind the choice.

 

Also the AMD sheet might be marketing material but does that make it false? Do you have any reason to believe that & why? The decoupling does happen around 3800Mhz and I've seen multiple sources corroborating the fact that the best results happen around these figures ( gamer nexus test or linus test ). If I'm mistaken about going for 3733, I'm interested to understand why

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, thiste said:

I'm in France btw

https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/product/tJKcCJ/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-bls2k16g4d32aesb

 

grab the crucial kit in france, if you are looking for a specific color, as long as its 3200mhz cl16 and carries the ballistics name, it should be E-die. 

2 minutes ago, thiste said:

Also the AMD sheet might be marketing material but does that make it false?

they list 3600mhz cl16 best price to performance when its not. 

3 minutes ago, thiste said:

The decoupling does happen around 3800Mhz and I've seen multiple sources corroborating the fact that the best results happen around these figures ( gamer nexus test or linus test ). If I'm mistaken about going for 3733, I'm interested to understand why

you get the best performance around that frequency, but manual timings allready gives you that performance with lower frequency kits. 

 

if i were you, save the money and grab a E-die kit. 

[thiste]

25 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

if i were you, save the money and grab a E-die kit. 

Is there something I should know about Hynix CJR chips?

[GoldenLag]

Just now, thiste said:

Is there something I should know about Hynix CJR chips?

CJR chips are among the top 3 overclocking chips. 

 

together with Micron E-die and Samsung B-die. 

 

CJR and Samsung are better at timing overclocking, while E-die handles higher capacity better than the other two. 

 

 

as in 32GB and 64GB. 

 

Micron chips also respond better to voltage and can be more interesting to overclock in that regard.  nothing wrong with Hynix CJR, Micron E-die is just usually cheaper. 

[thiste]

52 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

if i were you, save the money and grab a E-die kit. 

My original link features a Patriot Viper kit of 2x8GB 3733MHz for €85.99 (I'm taking two for a total of €172)

 

You offered this link with a Crucial Ballistix kit of 2x16GB 3200MHz for €178.79.

 

I understand going for 32GB is usually sold as 2x16GB, but I don't mind using 4 slots as I don't intend to upgrade to 64GB.

However I'm not losing money by going for the €172 / 3733MHz Patriot kit, and either I don't have to overclock if I don't want to, or if I do, I have a lot more potential for higher frequencies.

I feel like my logic seems sound but I'm totally open to being wrong if I missed something. If I did please enlighten me.

 

54 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

CJR and Samsung are better at timing overclocking, while E-die handles higher capacity better than the other two.

After some more digging it appears as though those Patriot Viper kits usually come with the Samsung B-die chip, and sometimes with a Hynix chip. Also, I found this review ( link ) which seems to indicate that this kit is of pretty good quality with no compatibility issue & good OC potential.

[GoldenLag]

22 minutes ago, thiste said:

I feel like my logic seems sound but I'm totally open to being wrong if I missed something. If I did please enlighten me.

usually using 4 sticks lowers overclocking potensial or may not work in XMP all the time. prefferably you want to have as few sticks as possible while also having dualchannel. 

 

 

tho it will preobably work fine, with the double 2*8gb 

 

22 minutes ago, thiste said:

After some more digging it appears as though those Patriot Viper kits usually come with the Samsung B-die chip, and sometimes with a Hynix chip. Also, I found this review ( link ) which seems to indicate that this kit is of pretty good quality with no compatibility issue & good OC potential.

did some digging, its not samsung B-die. and if it is Hynix, its unlikely to be a CJR. probably S-die or something similar. 

 

[thiste]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

usually using 4 sticks lowers overclocking potential or may not work in XMP all the time. preferably you want to have as few sticks as possible while also having dual channel.

 

tho it will probably work fine, with the double 2*8gb

This is great information the kind of which I came here for, thanks man

 

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

did some digging, its not samsung B-die. and if it is Hynix, its unlikely to be a CJR. probably S-die or something similar.

So in the end the problem is the uncertainty regarding the specific chip in this RAM kit (added to the uncertainty with that specific vendor on amazon, but that's not your problem ). I don't really want the hassle of getting an inferior product & have to send it back & all. Maybe there's a reason it's not on the QVL.

 

Makes more sense to shell out the difference in cash and grab the known quantity that is the G.Skill 3600CL16 which is great & then try to OC that to 3733 or even 3800MHz, which is what I planned to do in the first place.

 

Prices in Europe are simply awful, but when something looks too good to be true there's probably something fishy somewhere. Thanks for the help, GoldenLag.