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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K ?!

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hi

I want a Cam for Video and Pictures for some Documentaries. I dont know which Style or what ever everything is quite new for me.

I will make at first some "B Roll" Videos who I want use later for my Documentaries.

So I came in touch with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K on a Company Event. The look nice.

Does anyone here use them? When I see what some People from Youtube when the show the RAW Video and the Edit the look Amazing!

So does anyone here have the Cam? If I buy them what kind ob objective are compatible? What is the difference between them?

Thanks


From AT. :x

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I have the 4k.  The 6k looks good but whats your technical skill level. Both the 4k and 6k are aimed at cinematographers. There is no autofocus and you will probably need a second monitor depending on what style you shoot.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
47 minutes ago, Thanatopsis said:

you will probably need a second monitor depending on what style you shoot.

I guessed that.

47 minutes ago, Thanatopsis said:

The 6k looks good but whats your technical skill level.

Whats different beside of the Sensor?

The good think I can crop the Image and get a Shake Free 4k.


From AT. :x

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So if your new to video i would strongly recommend a dslr. The BMPCC 6K is amazing but it really dose take time to learn and understand. You will need to rig it out and that cost extra $$$ as well you need to learn color gardening  (though I suppose you could use a lut) and like previously stated there is no auto focus... or auto exposure or any thing. On top of that the 6k footage takes up a massive amount of space so you would probably need to get a few large hard drives to store your footage. If your prepared to deal with all that then go for it! If not, I'd recommend going with something from the sony mirtorless line up or maybe cannon (really depends on preference)


Don't Judge my spelling I'm dyslexic 

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15 hours ago, Required said:

I guessed that.

Whats different beside of the Sensor?

The good think I can crop the Image and get a Shake Free 4k.

The sensor and lense mout is it.  Also you are limited to braw if you want too shoot 6k right now, this may or may not change its really all about what bm can do with their fpgas.

 

Heres the deal with all the BM cameras of you are a cinematographer they are good options and worth checking out. If your on a shoe string budget or in film school the BMPCC family is a good option if you are new to video production avoid it unless you are ready for the mountain of learning that you will have to do.  The learning curve is a wall if you have no experience shooting on pro gear.

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On 10/12/2019 at 10:14 PM, Required said:

Hi

I want a Cam for Video and Pictures for some Documentaries. I dont know which Style or what ever everything is quite new for me.

I will make at first some "B Roll" Videos who I want use later for my Documentaries.

So I came in touch with the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K on a Company Event. The look nice.

Does anyone here use them? When I see what some People from Youtube when the show the RAW Video and the Edit the look Amazing!

So does anyone here have the Cam? If I buy them what kind ob objective are compatible? What is the difference between them?

Thanks

I have a friend who rented the bmpcc a couple of times. The footage is absolutely gorgeous. On the other hand, don't trust the photos on blackmagic's website. Bmpcc has incredibly terrible battery life and requires a good rig to be taken advantage of. The files are huge and there's no built in stabilization. It's a terribly unforgiving camera and really isn't for beginners. Unless you already have experience grading, using stabilization rigs, or manual focusing, the bmpcc may actually do you more bad than good.  

These days, lots of cameras have good enough log picture profiles and good enough 4k pictures. I don't 100% believe the "photographer > gear" thing but if you're dedicated enough you can pull a better image than folks with much higher end gear. I know a friend who got to cannes with an A7s, for example, and someone filmed this on a now half decade old oneplus one. Most DSLR and Mirrorless cameras are getting stupidly good at video now and so the entrance fee for "professional video" are much lower.

Sony's aps-c line up are terrific for video, and so are most of their full frame cameras released after the A7r2. Same goes for panasonic's lineup, Fujifilm, and the big boys Canikon. Hell even Olympus. Just pick a photography camera from your brand of choice capable of 4k video and log capability (that perhaps has a good rating on dpreview) and make the most of it. It'll last you a while. 

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2 hours ago, Required said:

I want make thinks like this:

 

Whats your starting skill level?  This type of stuff is mainly done in Editing as the video host points out.  but you can see some of the trade offs in the original footage vs the cropped down footage to mask the frame moves.

 

Look the BMPCC4k  or the 6k are great cameras but they are great cameras for people who have some experience with working cinema or ENG cameras its a really hard camera for people jumping into Video Production for a first time unless you have a mentor or are going to put a lot of effort in to learn develop the skills and learn the Techniques to operate a cinema camera.  The BMPCC is not a competitor to a canon EOS R or M50 its a jumping in point to move up to RED's and Ursa's.  What Me and everyone else posting on this thread are trying to get at is with out knowning your starting point the BMPCC is not a good fit for most it gives up most creature comforts and all assistive tech to keep the costs down while keeping a good Imager and just enough Processing power to preserve the imagers details.

 

Camera's like the Canon EOS R or M50, Pentax, Sony, Olympus equivalents are all great starting points. They have auto focus, Auto Exposure, 4k recording and record to formats that are easy to work with while still retaining more than enough detail for movie theater watching once you learn the basics of Exposure and lighting management.

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I would not recommend the Blackmagic cameras unless you have a lot of experience and technical skill shooting video.
 

Your best option at a similar price point would be the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H. The reviews on that is that it shoots beautiful 4k video with a ton of options available, but in a more traditional mirrorless camera body, with all of the creature comforts.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
23 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

Your best option at a similar price point would be the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H.

Are you insane?
https://geizhals.eu/panasonic-lumix-dc-s1h-gehaeuse-dc-s1he-k-a2122073.html

€ 3809,00 for the Panasonic vs. € 2378,95 for the Blackmagic!

27 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

that is that it shoots beautiful 4k video

So how can I get a 4k Video when I crop and optical Stabilise a Video?


From AT. :x

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Just now, Required said:

Are you insane?
https://geizhals.eu/panasonic-lumix-dc-s1h-gehaeuse-dc-s1he-k-a2122073.html

€ 3809,00 for the Panasonic vs. € 2378,95 for the Blackmagic!

So how can I get a 4k Video when I crop and optical Stabilise a Video?

The Blackmagic has no continuous AF, a fully-articulating display or in-body stabilization unlike the Panasonic. You would be looking at getting an external screen plus a gimbal on top of the camera to produce any decent result; no continuous AF also means you will have to learn how to manually focus on the fly when recording video.

 

Also, the Panasonic is capable of shooting 6k video, but the 4k video out of it is also very good; it is down-sampled 6k footage taken from the full width of the sensor. You can then upscale the footage back to 4k after cropping and stabilizing with little negative effects because the footage was originally down-sampled from a higher resolution.

 

If you are looking at a cheaper option, the Panasonic GH5 is a very solid alternative.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Sorry I cant afford 4k just for the naked Body.

1 hour ago, ThePointblank said:

Also, the Panasonic is capable of shooting 6k video

Depend on the Resolution what I saw.

1 hour ago, ThePointblank said:

You can then upscale the footage back to 4k after cropping and stabilizing with little negative effects because the footage was originally down-sampled from a higher resolution.

Since many Web Video Services still use 4k I must have a good Image Quality.

 

Now I learn how to use a Production Camera. A local Community TV Channel still buy new Equipment who is 4k. When you see what the Air right now my Footage will be much better even for a beginner.

I my Class also People who have the feeling for nice Image and feeling.

1 hour ago, ThePointblank said:

You would be looking at getting an external screen plus a gimbal on top of the camera to produce any decent result

I will need a Gimbal and a Monopot as an cheap Camera Crane replacement.

What I also want to film are Conferences who the Cam is on a Tripot and I can use the resolution for Virtual Zoom, Pan,... to any place on the Stage.

1 hour ago, ThePointblank said:

no continuous AF also means you will have to learn how to manually focus on the fly when recording video.

In my Class we use only AF Camera right now. I dont know which Camera the use but its a "real" TV Camera. That thing is huge, insane heavy. The Display is also Crap and the record in Interlaced only...


From AT. :x

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2 minutes ago, Required said:

Sorry I cant afford 4k just for the naked Body.

Depend on the Resolution what I saw.

Since many Web Video Services still use 4k I must have a good Image Quality.

 

Now I learn how to use a Production Camera. A local Community TV Channel still buy new Equipment who is 4k. When you see what the Air right now my Footage will be much better even for a beginner.

I my Class also People who have the feeling for nice Image and feeling.

I will need a Gimbal and a Monopot as an cheap Camera Crane replacement.

What I also want to film are Conferences who the Cam is on a Tripot and I can use the resolution for Virtual Zoom, Pan,... to any place on the Stage.

In my Class we use only AF Camera right now. I dont know which Camera the use but its a "real" TV Camera. That thing is huge, insane heavy. The Display is also Crap and the record in Interlaced only...

1. The Panasonic S1H is also Netflix certified as a primary camera; it is a very good camera.

2. Most of the 4k footage from the web is 4k that was cropped and upscaled back to 4k resolution. Very few people are shooting 6k or even 8k, and if they are, they are big budget shooters.

3. Most decent cine cameras are 4k or more. The only reason why the Blackmagic is less is because it sacrifices a lot of functionality to get the image quality and price level.

4. As a student, the Blackmagic has an extremely high and steep learning curve. This isn't a camera meant for beginners or students; it is meant for more advanced shooters only. You will not get satisfactory results unless you have a lot of skill and experience, which you don't have. If you got the Blackmagic, with your level of skill and experience, you will be extremely disappointed in the results you will get.

5. Both Panasonic's I've mentioned have in-body image stabilization. Coupled with continuous AF, they are very much suited for run and gun shooting on the move, so you aren't as reliant on gimbals or tripods for stabilization.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
24 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

The Panasonic S1H

is with 3800€ 1000€ over my tide budget.

25 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

The only reason why the Blackmagic is less is because it sacrifices a lot of functionality to get the image quality and price level.

Well and another fact. Here in Europe the "Traditional" Cams get sold only to Companys who serve end User and the must sell them at the "not binding" Price "recommendation" (unverbindliche Preisempfehlung in German). If the sell cheaper the loose there Contract to sell it. 🤮 What I heard from the Company I intend to buy Blackmagic dont have such thinks. Thats why its get hard to impossible to buy Products from some Company because the refuse to sell it to me (/us).

31 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

If you got the Blackmagic, with your level of skill and experience, you will be extremely disappointed in the results you will get.

So is "just" the AF different?

 

31 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

Both Panasonic's

The dont help if the not selling me there Camera.

 

33 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

so you aren't as reliant on gimbals or tripods for stabilization.

Well I will need a Gimbal for variouse thinks like I mention before as an Handheld Camera Crane and smooth follow shots. Who is insane and shoot a Stage on a one day conference without a Tripod?


From AT. :x

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6 hours ago, Required said:

is with 3800€ 1000€ over my tide budget.

 

Then get the Panasonic GH5. It's another professional-level camera.

 

Quote

 

 

Well and another fact. Here in Europe the "Traditional" Cams get sold only to Companys who serve end User and the must sell them at the "not binding" Price "recommendation" (unverbindliche Preisempfehlung in German). If the sell cheaper the loose there Contract to sell it. 🤮 What I heard from the Company I intend to buy Blackmagic dont have such thinks. Thats why its get hard to impossible to buy Products from some Company because the refuse to sell it to me (/us).

 

 

Not sure what you are on about here.

 

Quote

So is "just" the AF different?

Autofocus, battery life, a whole lot of features and functionality. You would not be able to focus and track on a moving subject, unless you have the skill to do it manually, which requires a ton of skill to do well and smoothly.

 

Quote

The dont help if the not selling me there Camera.

Not sure what you are talking about.

 

Quote

Well I will need a Gimbal for variouse thinks like I mention before as an Handheld Camera Crane and smooth follow shots. Who is insane and shoot a Stage on a one day conference without a Tripod?

You are less reliant on such equipment because the Panasonic does have very effective in body image stabilization. Footage shot with the Panasonic's will be smoother to begin with, and would require less cropping in post to stabilize.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

So I want to buy this Cam can someone recommend a good lense?

Someone say I should take the "IS" Canon Lense with anti Shake System.


From AT. :x

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1 hour ago, Required said:

So I want to buy this Cam can someone recommend a good lense?

Someone say I should take the "IS" Canon Lense with anti Shake System.

There have been at least 3 different cameras mentioned during the course of this thread.

1) Which camera are you talking about buying?

2) What scenes are you filming? What's your set like? What's the lighting like?

3) What is your budget? Can you afford to buy multiple lenses? Do you have an upgrade path in mind?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

1) Which camera are you talking about buying?

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

What scenes are you filming?

Depend. Some Documentary, Interview, at some Conferences,...

9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

What's your set like?

There arent any. I will/ have use that will be there.

9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

What's the lighting like?

Sure Outdoor the natural Light at an Interview I got some Lights.

9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

What is your budget?

Well what is necary to get a good result.

9 hours ago, LyondellBasell said:

Can you afford to buy multiple lenses? Do you have an upgrade path in mind?

Not now and yes sure I will buy more lenses later but first I (can/) want buy one. If I realy need one "special" I have to rent then.


From AT. :x

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15 hours ago, Required said:

So I want to buy this Cam can someone recommend a good lense?

Someone say I should take the "IS" Canon Lense with anti Shake System.

I don't know Canon lenses so I can't make any specific EF lens recommendations, but I'd look at getting a fast wide angle like a 16-35mm and a mid-range zoom. For 6K video you don't want to skimp on the lenses, be prepared to pay for the top-level pro lenses. Even better take a took at getting cine lenses for this camera. Don't forget to buy a variable ND filter as well or you'll be constantly overexposed. 

 

As an owner of the original BMPCC I generally concur with the other posters. The BMPCC 6K is not a beginners camera and I argue its not a run-and-gun camera either. It's a cinema camera meant for studio work or at least thoroughly planned shoots. In addition to some of things already mentioned (AF, stability, no shooter-aids etc.) there's post-production challenges as well. Are you prepared to work with 6K RAW footage?

 

First off the data quantity is enormous, about 20-30GB per minute. One day of shooting will yield multiple terabytes of data. Do you have the in-camera storage cards for this? Do you have the hard drives and data storage system for backing up and archiving this footage?

 

For actually editing 6K RAW you'll need a beast of a computer. Additionally you should check RAW compatibility with your editing software of choice; it may not work natively adding another step to the process.

 

Then there's color grading, which may be the hardest part of the whole process to do really well. Have you ever color graded before?

 

On 11/16/2019 at 3:12 AM, Required said:

is with 3800€ 1000€ over my tide budget.

If you have a tight budget then why are you looking at the BMPCC 6K? The camera is only one piece of a much larger and much more costly system. Have you priced out everything you'll need to actually shoot with the BMPCC?

 

I'd highly suggest that you rent a BPMCC for a day and see if you are prepared to deal with all its short-comings before you commit to purchasing. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

sry I  am  in a hurry tomorrow I drive  to Praha in the morning.

1 hour ago, harryk said:

For 6K video you don't want to skimp on the lenses, be prepared to pay for the top-level pro lenses.

~600€ I saw one.

1 hour ago, harryk said:

Even better take a took at getting cine lenses for this camera. Don't forget to buy a variable ND filter as well or you'll be constantly overexposed. 

I  want buy only Cine and Yes I know...

1 hour ago, harryk said:

Are you prepared to work with 6K RAW footage?

Yes

1 hour ago, harryk said:

Do you have the in-camera storage cards for this? Do you have the hard drives and data storage system for backing up and archiving this footage?

Nope but I buy one. And  Yes  there is a Plan for.

1 hour ago, harryk said:

For actually editing 6K RAW you'll need a beast of a computer. Additionally you should check RAW compatibility with your editing software of choice

I still need one and since I know I will make something with Film is dont buy any in advanced.

And I also will use  the one from Blackmagic.

1 hour ago, harryk said:

Have you ever color graded before?

Nope and since I know  what Software and Cams the Open  TV channel use even my begginer collor correktik will  look pro Material.

1 hour ago, harryk said:

If you have a tight budget then why are you looking at the BMPCC 6K?

Since I  want have a 4K Video after Cropping I need a higher resolution.

 

1 hour ago, harryk said:

I'd highly suggest that you rent a BPMCC for a day and see if you are prepared to deal with all its short-comings before you commit to purchasing. 

Well its cheaper to sell them as used  than rent some  material.


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On 12/7/2019 at 11:04 AM, Required said:

sry I  am  in a hurry tomorrow I drive  to Praha in the morning.

~600€ I saw one.

I  want buy only Cine and Yes I know...

Yes

Nope but I buy one. And  Yes  there is a Plan for.

I still need one and since I know I will make something with Film is dont buy any in advanced.

And I also will use  the one from Blackmagic.

Nope and since I know  what Software and Cams the Open  TV channel use even my begginer collor correktik will  look pro Material.

Since I  want have a 4K Video after Cropping I need a higher resolution.

 

Well its cheaper to sell them as used  than rent some  material.

I don't think the BMPCC6K is what you need at this time, given your experience and camera budget.

I believe you would be better served by a pro DSLR/mirrorless body with a good lens.

 

Basic price breakdown:

BMPCC6K - 2500US

Tilta Cage - 460US

Follow focus system - 500-1000US

50mm Canon Cine Prime - 3950US

850 Pro SSD - 460US per

 

We're already at 8000US without a tripod, alternate lenses, extra batteries, external recorder, mounts, or any audio equipment.

I applaud your ambition and appreciation for the big-budget look, but you will be better able to exercise your creativity with equipment you can use and afford.

 

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