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Apple credit card fraud found.. that was quick

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7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The exact opposite. People all believe Apple's "holy words" but they're precisely nothing but a whole marketing team downplaying issues. Just as much of a problem as people blowing up issues out of proportion.

What issues are being blown out of proportion?   I believe @Tristerin 's comments were more general and observational of trends in consumerism.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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19 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

When will people stop reading Marketing verbiage without realizing an entire division is employed to put out words in such a manner that causes people to think its less than it is?  

Actually they cause it to think its MORE than it is, I am assuming you mean that.  If you don't, then you are one of those people....

 

If my comment you find worth quoting to manipulate to your standards, likely that shoe fits - I still suggest you read the marketing material for what it is.  Jargon and keywords.  Sometimes trigger words.  But that's up to the individual.

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Also me:  IBJJF Champion at the Chicago Open.  To the Jiu Jitsu world, that sounds awesome, until you read my fine print - at white belt level (many many years ago).

 

That's marketing jargon.  Sans at my gym I don't brag about being one of the best of the worst.  Being King of Dumb Island still makes someone dumb.

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2 hours ago, Kilrah said:

We've had chip for at least 20 years here. Don't tell me anyone is using 20 year old terminals today... aka if they had started replacing broken terminals with chip-compatible ones back then they'd all support chip by now.

Correction the rest of the world had chip readers. The US it’s relatively new. Also gas stations don’t have them at the pump. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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42 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Actually they cause it to think its MORE than it is, I am assuming you mean that.  If you don't, then you are one of those people...

I understand you going after people blowing this fraud occurrences as out of proportion requiring caution, and am retorting about Apple's "it's nothing" words as being equally out of proportion and requiring just as much caution. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

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Just now, Kilrah said:

I understand you going after people blowing this fraud occurrences as out of proportion, and am retorting about Apple's "it's nothing" words as being equally out of proportion. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

Wrong, Im going after no one.  I asked a simple question of "When will people...".  Didn't quote anyone, didn't reference anyone.  If YOU are the type of people who cant understand what Marketing Jargon is, well, I cannot help you.  I can only say, take it at face value and do your own research.  

 

What you should understand, imho from what I said is that, people will remain upset and naïve at the same time.  Or they can be less naïve, and less upset.  

 

Reminds me of when my wife bought the Kyocera Hydro phone which was marketed as being water "resistant".  In the end it was built no different than other phones, and since then the company changed its name - but when my wife got her phone wet and complained that it stopped working - I had her define resistant and then watched it dawn on her.

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Wow, it doesn't matter whether you have normal credit card or iCard made from very soft titanium. Just to point out the CC doesn't need to have magline to be skimmed, chip + pin is almost as easily skimmable (chip is even easier to copy than the magline but getting the pin requires either camera or looking over shoulders and stupid enough victim who doesn't cover while entering their pin) even the contactless payment is vulnerable (haven't seen really good ways outside of demostrations and ads, the worst there probably is in the wild is that if some country has laws so fucked up that anyone can put up contacless payment terminal without registering it).

So even if Apple made it, it's 100% as secure as if anyone else had done it because standards that Apple cannot screw with. They boast with TouchID and FaceID but it's kind of hard to say how common that will come (probably in US semi-common but elsewhere like Finland where there's only probably one or two banks that even support Google Pay and you can use that in very limited amount of stores and no info when even (if ever) others will come, currently MobilePay is probably the most commonly supported payment method outside of normal Visa Electron and other normal credit/debit cards) and mostly that is because there are standards that are supported by the industry and what is the most supported by the largest part of the companies that usually is the most common to be used and knowing Apple, they are not going to share their technology and software without massive licensing fees and if there is Samsung or other big competitor licensing, those fees are probably the smallest problem to use Apples technology or create support for it.

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I'm in the US and most places I shop at either have a chip or chip+pin payment system. I always carry some cash just in case a store might only accept cards with a magstripe, it doesn't hurt to have like $20-30 in your wallet, as backwards or old fashioned that might seem to some people lol.

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36 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Correction the rest of the world had chip readers. The US it’s relatively new. Also gas stations don’t have them at the pump. 

We do. It's 100% chip and pin (has been for years) and is like 90%(?) NFC for small purchases.

(Ah, not sure how many stores have it, but "50% of purchases used contactless" https://www.mobiletransaction.org/contactless-payments-uk/ )

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Just now, TechyBen said:

We do. It's 100% chip and pin (has been for years) and is like 90%(?) NFC for small purchases.

(Ah, not sure how many stores have it, but "50% of purchases used contactless" https://www.mobiletransaction.org/contactless-payments-uk/ )

Chip and pin has been around Canada and Eurpoe for like decades. Its new to the US. We have had it less than a decade. They still dont have the shit working correctly. Half the stores have the readers but dont have them setup. Ive gone to numerous stores and they dont use the chip and pin. Gas stations are the biggest offenders of this. At the pump you can either use magnetic reader or if your lucky they have an app you can use thru your phone. Like shell does. 

 

Ive never been able to get those Contactless card things to work. I can use Apple Pay just fine, but to use the NFC chip in the card it self, Ive never gotten that to work. PLUS thieves can steal the data on those cards easily. Thats why many people have NFC blocking in their wallets. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm in the US and most places I shop at either have a chip or chip+pin payment system. I always carry some cash just in case a store might only accept cards with a magstripe, it doesn't hurt to have like $20-30 in your wallet, as backwards or old fashioned that might seem to some people lol.

Carrying cash is no more retro and vintage as having magstrip  only readers.

2 hours ago, TechyBen said:

We do. It's 100% chip and pin (has been for years) and is like 90%(?) NFC for small purchases.

(Ah, not sure how many stores have it, but "50% of purchases used contactless" https://www.mobiletransaction.org/contactless-payments-uk/ )

Here in Australia the number of businesses that do not accept contactless payment is strikingly small.  I can even use contacless at many bush markets and pop up stores. With mobile contactless eft pos machines being easy to justify for the sales they create.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 hours ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

My sister runs her own health and fitness business... even she's got a contactless card reader that she takes to all of her classes. In fact, I think she said that she has zero cash payers any more and almost half of her clients have even switched over to direct debits.

 

I rarely carry cash any more... but it's nice to keep some on you for when it's needed. I probably only withdraw £20-30 a month from an ATM... it's more handy for when you just want to pick up a pint of milk at the local shop... especially those who refuse to take card payments unless it's over £10... Because in Jan 2018 they made it illegal to charge for using a card. My local shop still tried to charge me after that date... so I told them off, left what I was buying on the counter and refuse to shop there ever again... 18 months later, they've still lost me as a customer. I'd rather drive 2 miles to the supermarket than support greedy fuckers like that.

 

Most shops I've been in don't have a minimum spend, or if they do it's very small. My corner shop for example has a minimum spend of £2 to pay by card. 

I'm the sort of person that buys a 19p bottle of water with my card, because even though I have the cash in my wallet, I'd rather not end up with the change!

 

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Chip and pin has been around Canada and Eurpoe for like decades. Its new to the US. We have had it less than a decade. They still dont have the shit working correctly. Half the stores have the readers but dont have them setup. Ive gone to numerous stores and they dont use the chip and pin. Gas stations are the biggest offenders of this. At the pump you can either use magnetic reader or if your lucky they have an app you can use thru your phone. Like shell does. 

 

Ive never been able to get those Contactless card things to work. I can use Apple Pay just fine, but to use the NFC chip in the card it self, Ive never gotten that to work. PLUS thieves can steal the data on those cards easily. Thats why many people have NFC blocking in their wallets. 

That just sounds so weird to me, most petrol stations here you can either pay with chip and pin at the pump, or in the kiosk. Some, like ASDA (UK's Walmart subsidiary) are even unattended so are chip and pin only!

 

I find contactless payments with my card to be more reliable than with Google Pay whenever I use it, in certain shops like LIDL I sometimes have to resort to getting my card out my wallet and tapping it on the reader when I get the infamous 'phone moved too fast' error even though it's literally laying on the reader perfectly still! When I use my card, I just tap it on the screen and it's done! The downside is the £30 maximum spend which doesn't exist with Google Pay and Apple Pay (I presume anyway but I don't have an iPhone)

 

Plus, there is a new rule that you must enter your pin if you use contactless more than 5 times, or spend more than £130 a day using it. Obviously Google and Apple Pay are excluded from this rule, but it means the maximum anyone could 'steal' using contactless is £130. 

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On 10/9/2019 at 7:40 PM, bcredeur97 said:

it still has a magnetic strip... so it's very easy to steal. just go rig up a gas pump

Also this brings to mind a topic... WHY THE HECK ARE LIKE ALL GAS STATIONS IN THE US STILL USING MAGNETIC STRIPS?!

 

chip and pin is almost everywhere... except at the pump. which is literally the easiest thing to rig up a skimmer to... Like seriously?

They aren’t required to implement the chip reading for another year. Probably because of cost to upgrade pumps. Personally I think it’s bad practice and just needs to be forced out so we can ditch the damn mag stripe entirely. It’s a dated standard and as is evident to easy to read and manipulate. 

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Until America starts using Chip and PIN it's not secure. 

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9 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Chip and pin has been around Canada and Eurpoe for like decades. Its new to the US. We have had it less than a decade. They still dont have the shit working correctly. Half the stores have the readers but dont have them setup. Ive gone to numerous stores and they dont use the chip and pin. Gas stations are the biggest offenders of this. At the pump you can either use magnetic reader or if your lucky they have an app you can use thru your phone. Like shell does. 

 

Ive never been able to get those Contactless card things to work. I can use Apple Pay just fine, but to use the NFC chip in the card it self, Ive never gotten that to work. PLUS thieves can steal the data on those cards easily. Thats why many people have NFC blocking in their wallets. 

Also ping @mr moose , Yeah, AFAIK the reason for the NFC spending limit is nothing is "signed" or authenticated (by the customer/shop). But we know no one was REALLY checking signatures, and the ease of faking them was stupid. They went up to £250 here and sometimes above, but stores waited for it to clear. With NFC (the exception being Apple/Google pay like services that need fingerprint auth/pin etc), they just eat the costs for the first £10/£30 "fraud" someone does if they nick the card/clone it's wireless feature, then use camera footage etc to try and find where it's being used. Yeah, the risk of it asking for pin is there... but I doubt it's a barrier to most crooks (just take 2 or 3 cards and say you picked the wrong one ;) ).

 

Like, mail in CC fraud/Direct debit payment fraud has been possible for ages, it's just not always the kind of targets cooks go for when cash is easier and less traceable.

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15 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Also ping @mr moose , Yeah, AFAIK the reason for the NFC spending limit is nothing is "signed" or authenticated (by the customer/shop). But we know no one was REALLY checking signatures, and the ease of faking them was stupid. They went up to £250 here and sometimes above, but stores waited for it to clear. With NFC (the exception being Apple/Google pay like services that need fingerprint auth/pin etc), they just eat the costs for the first £10/£30 "fraud" someone does if they nick the card/clone it's wireless feature, then use camera footage etc to try and find where it's being used. Yeah, the risk of it asking for pin is there... but I doubt it's a barrier to most crooks (just take 2 or 3 cards and say you picked the wrong one ;) ).

 

Like, mail in CC fraud/Direct debit payment fraud has been possible for ages, it's just not always the kind of targets cooks go for when cash is easier and less traceable.

 

Here paywave has a $100 limit before you need the pin and been common place and working flawlessly for over a decade. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Here paywave has a $100 limit before you need the pin and been common place and working flawlessly for over a decade. 

Yeah, but AFAIK (AUS?) $100 is about £30 in real money... ;)

You get massive markups! :(

 

(OK, not quite, games were around £50 here, while $100 there... what's a cost of a loaf of bread or a jar or marmite?)

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1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

Yeah, but AFAIK (AUS?) $100 is about £30 in real money... ;)

You get massive markups! :(

 

(OK, not quite, games were around £50 here, while $100 there... what's a cost of a loaf of bread or a jar or marmite?)

Average loaf of bread is about $2.50 and marmite is $4-5 depending on bottle size.  But we also have higher average general wealth.

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Average loaf of bread is about $2.50 and marmite is $4-5 depending on bottle size.  But we also have higher average general wealth.

 

Only because you won't let poor people from 3rd would countries like the UK in. But then again, I don't blame you... I'd not let my ugly mug in! (sarcasm!) ;)

£1-£1.50 here... though my fake bread is about £2.50. Really hard to compare I guess, as so much different all over the world. Plus ever crime types differs from country to country, with the easiest marks/targets being different depending on culture/industry/tech.

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1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

Only because you won't let poor people from 3rd would countries like the UK in. But then again, I don't blame you... I'd not let my ugly mug in! (sarcasm!) ;)

£1-£1.50 here... though my fake bread is about £2.50. Really hard to compare I guess, as so much different all over the world. Plus ever crime types differs from country to country, with the easiest marks/targets being different depending on culture/industry/tech.

1 pound is about $2 (give or take).  Our wealth is higher than the US so it's not quite as bad as it looks.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Only because you won't let poor people from 3rd would countries like the UK in. But then again, I don't blame you... I'd not let my ugly mug in! (sarcasm!) ;)

£1-£1.50 here... though my fake bread is about £2.50. Really hard to compare I guess, as so much different all over the world. Plus ever crime types differs from country to country, with the easiest marks/targets being different depending on culture/industry/tech.

£1-£1.50?!!  I pay 55p for my bread in Sainsburys, you must be buying the top shelf stuff! 

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No pin. No chip. That's insane to have on any debit or credit card. Apple is too funny.

 

My credit card had a chip and I think it has a pin.  I havent used it in a year. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 12:07 PM, yolosnail said:

£1-£1.50?!!  I pay 55p for my bread in Sainsburys, you must be buying the top shelf stuff! 

Well, I was looking at the average. Seriously, some of the cheap stuff I could use as packing peanuts... ;) (But yes, the fake stuff is expensive)

Tastes better if you make it yourself.

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Once in my life have I used the magnetic strip on my card, any guesses which country that was in?

 

I've not used cash in 3 months. Contactless/Apple Pay (identical in my country, anywhere that supports contactless supports Apple Pay) every single day of my life.

 

Visiting the US makes me feel like I've gone back in time. Using cash like a neanderthal...

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