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spartaman64

Blizzard bans pro hearthstone player for supporting Hong Kong protests

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

2019 HEARTHSTONE® GRANDMASTERS OFFICIAL COMPETITION RULES v1.4 p.12, Section 6.1 (o)

Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms.

Uh, yeah, I read that. Maybe you missed this part:

Quote

in Blizzard’s sole discretion

Which means that they are the only judges of what constitutes a violation. It could be nothing or anything since the rule doesn't specify exactly how far is too far and what the "damage" threshold is. Again, if it were just about people potentially hurting their image a LOT more players would be banned all the time.

 

For context, Blizzard didn't think THIS warranted enforcement of that rule:

and that hardly came out of the blue as this player was known for being rude and unsportsmanlike.


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Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

That makes very little sense. It seems to me they were upset about someone promoting their political agenda through blizzard which is not what any company wants. Blizzard is a company and 99.9% of companies want to stay away from politics in general and when someone is using them to broadcast a very political message then yeah they are going to ban them. I mean there is a time and a place to do these sorts of things and a post game interview isn't one of them. Its similar with politics and the work place. You can have whatever political beliefs you want but dont go bringing them to work because it will get you in trouble regardless of what you affiliation is. I think you are not understanding that this has basically nothing to do with what political stance they hold and how valid it is but rather that they used blizzard's platform without permission to broadcast their political stances. 

https://gamedaily.biz/article/426/blizzard-diversity-and-inclusion-leads-the-industry-wide-marathon as shown here blizzard has no problem with political stuff when it suits them. and i dont understand the ugly phrasing you guys do know that these are people trying to overcome an authoritarian regime trying to get freedoms that you guys probably take for granted

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Just now, spartaman64 said:

who do you think blizzard thinks hes offending? they probably dont think hes offending quadriplegics 

So you can't link the communist thing?  

 

You're going off emotionally and making jumps and leaps.

 

I doubt Blizzard even thought that far, they probably just saw the potential to offend people who have the power to take a MASSIVE player base away from them.   That's what that rule usually is in place for.  Offend no one, bring games to everyone.

 

Gaming isn't a place to make political statements, but I can definitely see that having the reach this guy had... use that platform.  it was a risk he took and I think it was worth it.


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Just business as usual. While I strongly disagree with lootboxes and other predatory mechanics and business models this one here isn't one of them.

 

China is quite a huge money pile and there's couple subjects that are well known to stir that teacup and you really don't want to stir that teacup the wrong way. Taiwan is one thing and the politics in general are the second thing and Hong Kong protests fall under that second thing. China also isn't the one of the most rational countries in the world and so something you really don't want to give them any ideas that your company would be taking any part to those subjects.

Spoiler

Just to point out how HUGE market China is. Think about the most expensive online game you have ever played and 10 fold that sum and Chinese still happily pay that. Like there was a time when Chieftain was this mythical tank that everyone wanted to World of Tanks, Chinese servers got it first and the price was around $1,500 and to have a choice to buy it you needed to have already spent on the game around $15,000 and there was people buying that thing and no one complained.

 

So the choice was ban the streamer or face the possible backfire from China and every business book you take into your hand and every businessman you ask will recommend the first choice.

 

Offending KKK or even the N-guys from Europe will create backfire so small that even if your game was totally made for them, you probably wouldn't even notice loosing players.

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2 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

So why did Blizzard fire both the casters as well, for simply being there?

Were they mages or warlocks?  Cuz mages suck.

 

No idea why, I am not Blizzard.  I'm just reading the words on the page, not looking for other reasons or agendas.  If I had to guess they did a blanket anyone-associated-with-him type thing.


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17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I mean... the rule basically just says "we can ban you at our discretion". Which of course they can - that doesn't make it acceptable.

To be fair, if you are a caster/professional player, you are working for Blizzard. There are rules in that contract, is simple, if you break them, you get fired. Maybe the outcome of this should be regulation of  player contracts, rather than a political statement. Many celebrities are allowed strong political opinions, why not video game players, that are now getting (not quite) paid as much, for as much publicity?

17 minutes ago, Sauron said:

And yet they have taken a side and it's a little naive to ascribe less power to a massive corporation than to a politician. It's also absurd to assume they have no political interests - they absolutely do, they are interested in any and all politics that will make them more money.

If that was the case then not firing the player would have gained them more potential buyers of the HK market, and the mainland would probably not have cared. Although you have a point that by doing this they have taken a side, however it would be difficult to judge as the tables are not turned so to speak. I expect most of this is due to circumstance.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, jstudrawa said:

So you can't link the communist thing?  

 

You're going off emotionally and making jumps and leaps.

 

I doubt Blizzard even thought that far, they probably just saw the potential to offend people who have the power to take a MASSIVE player base away from them.   That's what that rule usually is in place for.  Offend no one, bring games to everyone.

 

Gaming isn't a place to make political statements, but I can definitely see that having the reach this guy had... use that platform.  it was a risk he took and I think it was worth it.

anyone with brain cells knows who that is likely to offend and blizzard isnt stupid they know they will lose a lot of money if they lose support from tencent

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Thaldor said:

Just business as usual. While I strongly disagree with lootboxes and other predatory mechanics and business models this one here isn't one of them.

 

China is quite a huge money pile and there's couple subjects that are well known to stir that teacup and you really don't want to stir that teacup the wrong way. Taiwan is one thing and the politics in general are the second thing and Hong Kong protests fall under that second thing. China also isn't the one of the most rational countries in the world and so something you really don't want to give them any ideas that your company would be taking any part to those subjects.

  Reveal hidden contents

Just to point out how HUGE market China is. Think about the most expensive online game you have ever played and 10 fold that sum and Chinese still happily pay that. Like there was a time when Chieftain was this mythical tank that everyone wanted to World of Tanks, Chinese servers got it first and the price was around $1,500 and to have a choice to buy it you needed to have already spent on the game around $15,000 and there was people buying that thing and no one complained.

 

So the choice was ban the streamer or face the possible backfire from China and every business book you take into your hand and every businessman you ask will recommend the first choice.

 

Offending KKK or even the N-guys from Europe will create backfire so small that even if your game was totally made for them, you probably wouldn't even notice loosing players.

yep exactly what im saying. im just calling on blizzard to own up to it and apparently theres lots of people who were deceived by blizzard as shown in this thread

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, floofer said:

To be fair, if you are a caster/professional player, you are working for Blizzard. There are rules in that contract, is simple, if you break them, you get fired. Maybe the outcome of this should be regulation of  player contracts, rather than a political statement. Many celebrities are allowed strong political opinions, why not video game players, that are now getting (not quite) paid as much, for as much publicity?

If that was the case then not firing the player would have gained them more potential buyers of the HK market, and the mainland would probably not have cared. Although you have a point that by doing this they have taken a side, however it would be difficult to judge as the tables are not turned so to speak. I expect most of this is due to circumstance.

you do not know the situation if you think the mainland would not care

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/nba-china-hong-kong-apology-backlash.html

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I'm wishing more and more that it should be illegal to sell out to foreign entities like China or really any other country. It was astounding when we started trading with China after Tienanmen square, and it's astounding so many silicon valley companies are ignoring China's anti-democracy antics because they pay well today. I guess it's not really that surprising, money speaks above all

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Just now, Eaglerino said:

I'm wishing more and more that it should be illegal to sell out to foreign entities like China or really any other country. It was astounding when we started trading with China after Tienanmen square, and it's astounding so many silicon valley companies are ignoring China's anti-democracy antics because they pay well today. I guess it's not really that surprising, money speaks above all

Money isn't the issue.

 

People are.  Always will be.  Human beings are shit when not accountable in any meaningful way.


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6 minutes ago, jstudrawa said:

So you can't link the communist thing?  

 

You're going off emotionally and making jumps and leaps.

 

I doubt Blizzard even thought that far, they probably just saw the potential to offend people who have the power to take a MASSIVE player base away from them.   That's what that rule usually is in place for.  Offend no one, bring games to everyone.

 

Gaming isn't a place to make political statements, but I can definitely see that having the reach this guy had... use that platform.  it was a risk he took and I think it was worth it.

exactly

 

now lets say they allowed this imagine the domino effect this could possibly do?

its not about a game anymore

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lets chip in and ship the protesters 500 copies of hearthstone.


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10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Uh, yeah, I read that. Maybe you missed this part:

Which means that they are the only judges of what constitutes a violation. It could be nothing or anything since the rule doesn't specify exactly how far is too far and what the "damage" threshold is. Again, if it were just about people potentially hurting their image a LOT more players would be banned all the time.

 

For context, Blizzard didn't think THIS warranted enforcement of that rule:

and that hardly came out of the blue as this player was known for being rude and unsportsmanlike.

so they should allow everyone to do this?

 

and bring up their political shit all the time huh?

 

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2 minutes ago, jstudrawa said:

Money isn't the issue.

 

People are.  Always will be.  Human beings are shit when not accountable in any meaningful way.

I don't think any of them would bother being so buddy buddy with china if the vast amounts of money and future money wasn't there

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I thought I was going to be alone in saying I fully support Blizzard's decision here but it seems like others feel the same way.

 

Here is the thing, Blizzard is not taking a side. They are actively preventing their tournaments from being political. If I post a thread here talking about how Israel is a terrible country that commits war crimes and it gets locked, would you say LTT has taken a "pro Israel stance"? No they haven't. Sure they silenced me but they would most likely also have silenced me if I started talking about how Palestine shouldn't be recognized as a state then I would probably also have the thread locked.

This whole "if you're not with us then you're against us" mentality needs to stop.

 

I am pretty sure that if someone at the tournament started talking about how great the 2019 Hong Kong extraction bill is then they would also get banned, and rightfully so.

Hearthstone is a card game, not your venue for spreading political messages.

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He deserved it.
Politics is toxic nowandys and that is why it should stay out of gaming. A company has to take a stance in order to prevent further incidents.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Teddy07 said:

He deserved it.
Politics is toxic nowandys and that is why it should stay out of gaming. A company has to take a stance in order to prevent further incidents.

 

https://gamedaily.biz/article/426/blizzard-diversity-and-inclusion-leads-the-industry-wide-marathon i guess she should be kicked from the company 

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32 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

https://gamedaily.biz/article/426/blizzard-diversity-and-inclusion-leads-the-industry-wide-marathon

they should kick stevens from the company for offending people who dont believe in diversity clearly breaking the rule

Repeating the "oh they should ban this person for offending that group" argument is more of a "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" than actually adding anything to the discussion. You seem to have forgotten: 

"2019 HEARTHSTONE® GRANDMASTERS OFFICIAL COMPETITION RULES v1.4 p.12, Section 6.1 (o)

Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the player’s prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzard’s Website Terms."

The KKK can't make them lose money, people who don't believe in diversity don't have enough of a sway to make them lose money. Pretty sure the Chinese government does, and being that big corporations like to make money at the expense of everything else, of course they deem this a violation of the rules, but not people offending the KKK and bigots. 


EDIT: Haha, read through the rest of the thread and everyone seems to have pointed out the same thing. It makes good business sense to not offend massive markets, even if it's pretty fucked morally. 


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16 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

https://gamedaily.biz/article/426/blizzard-diversity-and-inclusion-leads-the-industry-wide-marathon as shown here blizzard has no problem with political stuff when it suits them. and i dont understand the ugly phrasing you guys do know that these are people trying to overcome an authoritarian regime trying to get freedoms that you guys probably take for granted

Again that is completely different. That is someone who works for blizzard and it is their job not someone randomly using blizzard's platform to broadcast their political stance. I am not going to argue about the stance because in my eyes it is completely irrelevant to why they were banned.  Also I don't see why you think my words were ugly because I have nothing against what they are fighting for but again there is a time and a place. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Zando Bob said:

Repeating the "oh they should ban this person for offending that group" argument is more of a "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" than actually adding anything to the discussion. You seem to have forgotten: 


The KKK can't make them lose money, people who don't believe in diversity don't have enough of a sway to make them lose money. Pretty sure the Chinese government does, and being that big corporations like to make money at the expense of everything else, of course they deem this a violation of the rules, but not people offending the KKK and bigots. 

thats exactly what i said. ive never said blizzard cant legally do this or anything i said they banned him because of money and they should own up to that and not this false narrative that they are being sensitive about people's feelings

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Brooksie359 said:

Again that is completely different. That is someone who works for blizzard and it is their job not someone randomly using blizzard's platform to broadcast their political stance. I am not going to argue about the stance because in my eyes it is completely irrelevant to why they were banned.  Also I don't see why you think my words were ugly because I have nothing against what they are fighting for but again there is a time and a place. 

their job itself is a political stance im just saying that blizzard has no problem taking a political stance on issues that wont cost them money thats all im saying

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Just now, spartaman64 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that an employee of Blizzard doing something? It's a bit different to ask for permission to do something when you're an employee, and someone else going rogue to spread a political message while live.

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