Microsoft hides option to use Windows 10 with a local account - GDPR violation?

[DeScruff]

9 hours ago, Jito463 said:

That doesn't make sense, because that's essentially a ramped up Pro (Enterprise), and Pro definitely still gives the option for a local login even when connected to the internet.

Maybe i am remembering wrong and remembering the install that came with the laptop. It was within an hour span.
I did boot the original SSD to see what kinda speeds the "Union Memory SSD" gave.

[Delicieuxz]

7 hours ago, pas008 said:

oh but many countries are changing their stance on digital goods like steam and French court decision

 

Soon many more to follow

Region-locked games and regional pricing are separate matters from platforms being required to facilitate people's right to resell their games. And the EU has recently been dealing with those things outside of court rulings. If a game is region-locked and you're enabled to resell it, the game you're able to resell will also be region-locked.

 

If you're poor and you buy in another region because you can't afford a game from your own region, then that's one thing, in my view. But buying and flipping cheap other-region games is taking advantage of the situation.

 

When you buy cheaper games from another region just for the purpose of selling them in a more expensive region to make profit, that's exploiting the system and depriving publishers and developers of full-cost sales, and it makes them feel like they need to put into place restrictions that will stop inter-region sales. People are entitled to have copies of a publisher's software at pennies on the dollar to undercut the publisher's own sales. Those cheaper-region games were only there in the first place because the publisher made them available, and did so not because that price covers their development costs and is profitable, but because people in that region earn a lot less and wouldn't or couldn't buy their game if the prices were much higher.

[jagdtigger]

12 hours ago, justpoet said:

Then it stopped allowing installs because of a single app package install borked the entire installer

Well this is one case i didnt run into as of yet. (Aside from that one time where my local mirror wasnt complete and tried to upgrade to the next LTS. OFC it was my fault because i didnt checked apt-mirror's log. Now im using mirror-sync and no issues ever since.)

[pas008]

6 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Region-locked games and regional pricing are separate matters from platforms being required to facilitate people's right to resell their games. And the EU has recently been dealing with those things outside of court rulings. If a game is region-locked and you're enabled to resell it, the game you're able to resell will also be region-locked.

 

If you're poor and you buy in another region because you can't afford a game from your own region, then that's one thing, in my view. But buying and flipping cheap other-region games is taking advantage of the situation.

 

When you buy cheaper games from another region just for the purpose of selling them in a more expensive region to make profit, that's exploiting the system and depriving publishers and developers of full-cost sales, and it makes them feel like they need to put into place restrictions that will stop inter-region sales. People are entitled to have copies of a publisher's software at pennies on the dollar to undercut the publisher's own sales. Those cheaper-region games were only there in the first place because the publisher made them available, and did so not because that price covers their development costs and is profitable, but because people in that region earn a lot less and wouldn't or couldn't buy their game if the prices were much higher.

Lol ok and you arent telling me anything new

Exploiting a system? Fix it then? Oh wait its

Similar to a currency trader in my book

 

Grey market didn't mean piracy

 

[Delicieuxz]

9 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Lol ok and you arent telling me anything new

Exploiting a system? Fix it then? Oh wait its

Similar to a currency trader in my book

 

Grey market didn't mean piracy

I don't think buying things from the "grey market" is piracy. It's people's right to resell their stuff. But I think exploiting the situation to undercut the publisher by reselling cheap keys from other regions risks restrictions from publishers.

[Donut417]

14 minutes ago, pas008 said:

Grey market didn't mean piracy

It does if the keys are stolen or some one is reselling the same key multiple times. 

[pas008]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

It does if the keys are stolen or some one is reselling the same key multiple times. 

Its called grey because you don't know

 

Just like buying physical goods from people 

[pas008]

11 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I don't think buying things from the "grey market" is piracy. It's people's right to resell their stuff. But I think exploiting the situation to undercut the publisher by reselling cheap keys from other regions risks restrictions from publishers.

But if i acquired them i should be able to resell them.

 

No matter how i got them

 

Then they shouldn't make things cheaper for the poorer areas but same price for all

With the exception of Currency exchange rate

[justpoet]

5 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Well this is one case i didnt run into as of yet. (Aside from that one time where my local mirror wasnt complete and tried to upgrade to the next LTS. OFC it was my fault because i didnt checked apt-mirror's log. Now im using mirror-sync and no issues ever since.)

This is actually a great example of the difference between a linux user and the masses.  You blame yourself because you didn't look at a log.  The masses would never look at any logs, would just hit the button, and would see it broken.  The extra level of redundancy and UI to make errors clear, non-destructive, and fixable isn't there yet in most of linux.

[Delicieuxz]

49 minutes ago, pas008 said:

But if i acquired them i should be able to resell them.

 

No matter how i got them

 

Then they shouldn't make things cheaper for the poorer areas but same price for all

If they didn't make them cheaper, they wouldn't make many sales in those regions, and people in those regions wouldn't get to play the game or would get used to pirating games software that's too expensive for them. There would be resentment against the publisher from the people who are being overcharged and they would likely feel justified in just pirating everything. Why should a poorer region be charged relatively, say, 4x what people in the US are? That situation is unfair.

 

It's better to understand the reason why games are cheaper in those regions and not flaunt exploitation of the situation in the publisher's face, incensing the publisher and provoking them to create additional restrictions like ActiVision have with region-locked games. Being able to flip cheap keys is a loophole that exists as a result of publishers doing what's reasonable for people in poorer regions - and if that loophole is closed, some non-exploitative benefits for people would be lost. It isn't something to wave in the faces of publishers.

[pas008]

5 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

If they didn't make them cheaper, they wouldn't make many sales in those regions and people in those regions wouldn't get to play the game and would get used to pirating games software that's too expensive for them. And there would be resentment against the publisher from the people who are being overcharged and they would likely feel justified in just pirating everything. Why should a poorer region be charged relatively, say, 4x what people in the US are? That situation is unfair.

 

It's better to understand the reason why games are cheaper in those regions and not flaunt exploitation of the situation in the publisher's face, incensing the publisher and provoking them to create additional restrictions. Being able to flip cheap keys is a loophole that exists as a result of publishers doing what's reasonable for people in poorer regions - and if that loophole is closed, some non-exploitative benefits for people would be lost. It isn't something to wave in the faces of publishers.

That's your belief

 

If they can lower the cost there they can lower it everywhere

 

And actually games tend to be close in price around the world when I'm shopping around

Software though can be different story

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

If they can lower the cost there they can lower it everywhere

Price is based on what the market can bear. In poorer conuntries they charge less because thats market demand. In richer coutries they know they can get a higher price for it. Plus consider that most people dont buy Windows directly. They generally get a computer that has it preinstalled. OEM"s get Windows licenses for cheaper than retail cost. 

[pas008]

17 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Price is based on what the market can bear. In poorer conuntries they charge less because thats market demand. In richer coutries they know they can get a higher price for it. Plus consider that most people dont buy Windows directly. They generally get a computer that has it preinstalled. OEM"s get Windows licenses for cheaper than retail cost. 

If they are going to do that then they risk it

 

I know many buy prebuilt

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

then they risk it

Or they region lock the keys. 

[jagdtigger]

2 hours ago, justpoet said:

This is actually a great example of the difference between a linux user and the masses.  You blame yourself because you didn't look at a log.  The masses would never look at any logs, would just hit the button, and would see it broken.  The extra level of redundancy and UI to make errors clear, non-destructive, and fixable isn't there yet in most of linux.

Except a normie wont use apt-mirror. The official mirror is way more reliable. But with all the machines running ubuntu on my network its better to have a local mirror .

 

/EDIT

This same issue is also true for windows too IMO....

[Crowbar]

10 hours ago, justpoet said:

This is actually a great example of the difference between a linux user and the masses.  You blame yourself because you didn't look at a log.  The masses would never look at any logs, would just hit the button, and would see it broken.  The extra level of redundancy and UI to make errors clear, non-destructive, and fixable isn't there yet in most of linux.

Problem is most errors on windows are vague gibberish that could be caused by a magnitude of reasons and when trying to find a solution often has dozens of proposals or basic "have you turned it off and back on again" copy + paste help desk replies from official microshaft employees on their very own website.

 

At least with a log it's simple to find what the exact problem is rather then a generic error code.

[justpoet]

23 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

Problem is most errors on windows are vague gibberish that could be caused by a magnitude of reasons and when trying to find a solution often has dozens of proposals or basic "have you turned it off and back on again" copy + paste help desk replies from official microshaft employees on their very own website.

 

At least with a log it's simple to find what the exact problem is rather then a generic error code.

I agree, logs are better…if you know how to read them.

As crap as Windows is, and it not telling you what is actually wrong a lot of the time, it DOES usually get better with a reboot…while linux usually gets worse with a reboot if something is wrong.

[mr moose]

41 minutes ago, justpoet said:

I agree, logs are better…if you know how to read them.

As crap as Windows is, and it not telling you what is actually wrong a lot of the time, it DOES usually get better with a reboot…while linux usually gets worse with a reboot if something is wrong.

Besides all that, it's just not fair to compare windows and linux errors in that way,  windows supports an extremely larger amount of 3rd party hardware and software.  law of averages by itself says there is significantly higher chance of driver, software or hardware conflict.  Some of the biggest reasons windows updates fail is because existing software or hardware vendors haven't been updated.  This is why windows scans your system before it upgrades, they are trying to minimize failure by only updating systems with hardware know to work with the new update.  I have a 3550 system that windows will not update beyond 1803 because it is not stable with newer versions.

 

 

 

 

[Crowbar]

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Besides all that, it's just not fair to compare windows and linux errors in that way,  windows supports an extremely larger amount of 3rd party hardware and software.  law of averages by itself says there is significantly higher chance of driver, software or hardware conflict.  Some of the biggest reasons windows updates fail is because existing software or hardware vendors haven't been updated.  This is why windows scans your system before it upgrades, they are trying to minimize failure by only updating systems with hardware know to work with the new update.  I have a 3550 system that windows will not update beyond 1803 because it is not stable with newer versions.

 

 

 

 

Not true.

 

When it comes to bleeding edge, yes because it's often a partnership with the manufacturer that can provide drivers immediately to microshaft. With Linux it's often a matter of the community having to prepare an open source solution and then submit the code to be added to the kernel. If manufacturers would for example get in touch and do this themselves then it wouldn't be a problem but they often don't bother since windows is a monopoly.

 

However when it comes to older hardware the support is much greater because windows drops support over time much faster. The Linux kernel just recently removed 486 support and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone still running an antiquated system like that and trying to install a modern OS on it.

 

Look at how many devices break between windows versions. XP to Vista/7 comes to mind as being hugely problematic and the third party that designed these devices ended support and didn't care because it was forced obsolescence which would just earn them another sale.

 

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Crowbar said:

Not true.

because you said so?  sure.

 

5 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

 

When it comes to bleeding edge, yes because it's often a partnership with the manufacturer that can provide drivers immediately to microshaft. With Linux it's often a matter of the community having to prepare an open source solution and then submit the code to be added to the kernel. If manufacturers would for example get in touch and do this themselves then it wouldn't be a problem but they often don't bother since windows is a monopoly.

 

And when Linux is big enough to warrant the same attention it will get it too.  fact of the matter is though that currently it isn't.  

 

5 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

 

However when it comes to older hardware the support is much greater because windows drops support over time much faster. The Linux kernel just recently removed 486 support and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone still running an antiquated system like that and trying to install a modern OS on it.

 

Citation needed.   One of windows biggest issues is supporting more hardware and maintaining compatability with older components.

5 hours ago, Crowbar said:

 

Look at how many devices break between windows versions. XP to Vista/7 comes to mind as being hugely problematic and the third party that designed these devices ended support and didn't care because it was forced obsolescence which would just earn them another sale.

 

 

 

How many was that then?

[Crowbar]

52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

because you said so?  sure.

 

 

And when Linux is big enough to warrant the same attention it will get it too.  fact of the matter is though that currently it isn't.  

 

Citation needed.   One of windows biggest issues is supporting more hardware and maintaining compatability with older components.

How many was that then?

If you don't want to believe what I have to say that's fine. Live in ignorance and refuse to be educated on how Linux actually works. There are tons of resources available online that state the same thing if you so feel inclined.

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, Crowbar said:

If you don't want to believe what I have to say that's fine. Live in ignorance and refuse to be educated on how Linux actually works. There are tons of resources available online that state the same thing if you so feel inclined.

To be fair. Windows is often lacking support due to OS changes. Linux due to hardware. People backport a LOT of Windows drivers, but not Linux (AFAIK) for hardware, so you'll be keeping the older distros/manually building a kernel.

 

Oranges and apples. I like both, but only apple skins get stuck in my teeth... and only the oranges squirt across the room when trying to peel them.

[Crowbar]

30 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

To be fair. Windows is often lacking support due to OS changes. Linux due to hardware. People backport a LOT of Windows drivers, but not Linux (AFAIK) for hardware, so you'll be keeping the older distros/manually building a kernel.

 

Oranges and apples. I like both, but only apple skins get stuck in my teeth... and only the oranges squirt across the room when trying to peel them.

Backporting drivers on Linux isn't really a thing because the drivers are part of the kernel and are only removed when those that maintain it decide to do so. Where Linux lacks the most is in the bleeding edge because of the disadvantage that takes place in having to wait for the hardware to be released and the community to do the work before it can be audited and submitted for addition. Linux isn't perfect but granted that a lot of it is community driven pro bono, I think it's impressive what has been accomplished to be this successful/competitive. Especially in the sever space when up against mega corporations like microshaft.

[jagdtigger]

53 minutes ago, Crowbar said:

because of the disadvantage that takes place in having to wait for the hardware to be released and the community to do the work before it can be audited and submitted for addition

Not to mention the cases where HW manufacturers intentionally break compatibility with existing drivers(im looking at you lenovo).....

[TechyBen]

4 hours ago, Crowbar said:

Backporting drivers on Linux isn't really a thing because the drivers are part of the kernel and are only removed when those that maintain it decide to do so. Where Linux lacks the most is in the bleeding edge because of the disadvantage that takes place in having to wait for the hardware to be released and the community to do the work before it can be audited and submitted for addition. Linux isn't perfect but granted that a lot of it is community driven pro bono, I think it's impressive what has been accomplished to be this successful/competitive. Especially in the sever space when up against mega corporations like microshaft.

Take a Raspi Pi as my experience with drivers. If I installed the oldest Pi Linux... I had the touchscreen working, but wrong orientation. If I installed the latest, I had the right orientation but no touch (or something to those extents). I could not change the driver between the versions IIRC. Often, certain software only works on certain versions of, for example, Linux Mint, and I'd need multiple VMs to get everything running. XD

 

Windows though, I can usually boot up an app/program from decades ago, even in Win10.