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VegetableStu

Intel Concedes HEDT, Practically slashes pricing in half with Cascade Lake X

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1 minute ago, Princess Luna said:

Am I the only one stunned on how Intel had a 1000$ mark up on the 18c processor? We know Cascade Lake-X is just Skylake-X Re-Refresh, there's nothing new there it is the same CPU so much that Intel surprisingly kept it on X299.

 

So did they improve yields? Or were them simply taking an insane profit on these HEDT processors?

 

TR3 doesn't even have to live to the hype any more, it has already served an insane service for the market and competition.

Intel have been profiteering for years.


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1 minute ago, porina said:

The old "depends on the workload" thing. For Prime95 large FFT or similar compute cases, I'd like to see at least one channel per core. But that's not the only way to solve the problem. CPU caches take a lot of the load off, and with Zen 2's L3 of 16MB/CCX we have more cache than ever. It doesn't work for all cases, it it works well in most of them. 

then there are the low corecount but high diecount Epyc CPUs where there is a crap ton of cache, which is amazing for a lot of workloads. 

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2 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

So did they improve yields? Or were them simply taking an insane profit on these HEDT processors?

They will continuously try to improve yields but I don't think it would contribute that much. So in short, it was probably just a fat profit.

 

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

then there are the low corecount but high diecount Epyc CPUs where there is a crap ton of cache, which is amazing for a lot of workloads. 

Yes, but not easily available for consumers. There were some Xeons configured as such too. People did speculate if Zen 2 would have a fat L4 cache to help with this, but the generous L3 negated that need.


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3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

the story of the three profiteers. 

 

the Red Profiteer AMD, the Green Profiteer Nvidia and the wealthiest of them all the Blue profiteer Intel

i kucked up, this was supposed to be an edit, but ill roll with it

 

AMD, allways seen in the Red, Nvidia allways in Green and Intel with their Sky blue profits

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, Princess Luna said:

Am I the only one stunned on how Intel had a 1000$ mark up on the 18c processor? We know Cascade Lake-X is just Skylake-X Re-Refresh, there's nothing new there it is the same CPU so much that Intel surprisingly kept it on X299.

 

So did they improve yields? Or were them simply taking an insane profit on these HEDT processors?

one donation commenter in the GN video mentioned something similar (timestamp 36:42), like intel selling limited amounts of CLX parts (from the virtue of reducing 14nm production) just to make intel look like they're forthcoming to what's going on in this race. (quote "intel: potential 14nm shortage + big drop in margin = intel will only provide a thin supply of CLX, making this nothing more than a PR stunt")

 

interesting, if true, but it wouldn't surprise me. they could have not "released CLX" and halved the price of remaining stock of SKLX refresh parts and it's the same thing, except they'd get a lot of angry people saying WHY DID I PAY DOUBLE FOR THIS PIECE OF CRAP

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3 minutes ago, porina said:

Yes, but not easily available for consumers

they arent? you can get them on Newegg for pretty cheap. 

 

wait, nvm i looked on Newegg and you can "only" get 128mb of cache for cheap. 

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3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

interesting, if true, but it wouldn't surprise me. they could have not "released CLX" and halved the price of remaining stock of SKLX refresh parts and it's the same thing, except they'd get a lot of angry people saying WHY DID I PAY DOUBLE FOR THIS PIECE OF CRAP

It isn't just end users, but everyone in the middle would be annoyed too. That's in part why manufacturers use rebates to effectively lower the price, without lowering the price. But if it is a "new" product, all's fair apparently. ?‍♂️

 

Cascade Lake does have a new instruction set extension in its AVX-512 implementation: VNNI. Think this is deep learning stuff I don't personally care about. Don't know if CPU implemented ones would have benefit over GPU anyway.

 

3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

they arent? you can get them on Newegg for pretty cheap. 

 

wait, nvm i looked on Newegg and you can "only" get 128mb of cache for cheap. 

I stand corrected, have to admit I never looked at buying them. Are they Zen 2 or older? The older cores were too slow to be worth looking at anyway (for my uses). For example, at the time I got my 7800X (6 cores) no Threadripper available at the time could keep up with it. With more cores they can kinda overpower it now, but still needs sufficient cache or ram bandwidth to feed it.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, porina said:

It isn't just end users, but everyone in the middle would be annoyed too. That's in part why manufacturers use rebates to effectively lower the price, without lowering the price. But if it is a "new" product, all's fair apparently. ?‍♂️

 

Cascade Lake does have a new instruction set extension in its AVX-512 implementation: VNNI. Think this is deep learning stuff I don't personally care about. Don't know if CPU implemented ones would have benefit over GPU anyway.

mmm, i guess that's kosher then ¯\(°_o)/¯

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Just now, porina said:

It isn't just end users, but everyone in the middle would be annoyed too. That's in part why manufacturers use rebates to effectively lower the price, without lowering the price. But if it is a "new" product, all's fair apparently. ?‍♂️

 

Cascade Lake does have a new instruction set extension in its AVX-512 implementation: VNNI. Think this is deep learning stuff I don't personally care about. Don't know if CPU implemented ones would have benefit over GPU anyway.

 

I stand corrected, have to admit I never looked at buying them. Are they Zen 2 or older? The older cores were too slow to be worth looking at anyway (for my uses). For example, at the time I got my 7800X (6 cores) no Threadripper available at the time could keep up with it. With more cores they can kinda overpower it now, but still needs sufficient cache or ram bandwidth to feed it.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100008494 601307875 601343060

 

here is for 7002 only. 128mb of cache seem to be for 8 cores and higher which go for about 620$ and upwards. 

 

24 core starts at 1340$

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11 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

here is for 7002 only. 128mb of cache seem to be for 8 cores and higher which go for about 620$ and upwards. 

Ok, they are Zen 2, but (for my uses) the consumer Zen 2 parts already hit "enough" cache, even if I wish it was unified and not partitioned per-CCX as that is an extra complication I could do without... the use case I have, you can simplify as you have enough L3 (L4) cache or not. If not, then you look at ram bandwidth. Most Intel CPUs do not have enough cache in that sense hence looking at the bandwidth. Broadwell-C with 128MB L4 meant it was practically unlimited and I'd like to see a return to that, but probably wont due to cost and complexity.

 

To tie it roughly back to this thread, my optimisation now is system level price/performance, with 3 players left in the running:

1, Zen 2 consumer

2, Zen 2 Threadripper (when it arrives)

3, Intel HEDT

 

Intel consumer is pretty much out of the running with Zen 2 consumer available. CLX doesn't really move things on from Skylake-X so that is easy to predict performance. TR3K is the first time I can seriously consider it, once we know the specific configurations and pricing.


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

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VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

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1 hour ago, porina said:

Wonder what % of people who posts on this thread have ever seriously considered 1k CPUs? I'm not short on a few $ and even I stopped around 600. If you really need it, you need it though. I did debate used HEDT in that area just to try for some benchmark records. It will be interesting to monitor the used markets after CLX and TR3K hit. Intel are also due a consumer desktop refresh around now too I think.

I've only done it once, with the i7 965XE on release as I was feeling uncessessarily  flush at the time. I haven't done it again since, and in reality, probably wouldn't ever again. I think I still have it around somewhere, probably still with a working X58 motherboard.

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Big win for...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The consumers


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, porina said:

Wonder what % of people who posts on this thread have ever seriously considered 1k CPUs?

I spent 700 Euro on my case and about double that on water cooling, but then sort of cheaped out on the CPU and went with the 4930k lol. But the 4960X was stupid in comparison anyway.

 

2 hours ago, porina said:

If you really need it, you need it though.

Need it is a bit of a stretch for me, wanted it more what happened. I do use the PCIe lanes because dual GPU, RAID card (not anymore but did) and 10Gb NIC but I don't "need" these.

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So it'll require a water chiller, consume 2X the power, cost more, and be around 6% faster in single threaded performance. Oh and have a ton of security holes


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Hopefully big Navi can light I fire under Nvidias ass like Zen has done to Intel. I have my doubts though.

with rdna 1 they got ipc up a lot, not they just need to lower power somewhat 

4 hours ago, Princess Luna said:

Am I the only one stunned on how Intel had a 1000$ mark up on the 18c processor? We know Cascade Lake-X is just Skylake-X Re-Refresh, there's nothing new there it is the same CPU so much that Intel surprisingly kept it on X299.

 

So did they improve yields? Or were them simply taking an insane profit on these HEDT processors?

 

TR3 doesn't even have to live to the hype any more, it has already served an insane service for the market and competition.

insane profits for sure, but i assume they wont want to sell many of these, they are large dies which means less profit per waffer and they are pretty tight 

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I want to see a deeper dive into these processors once they launch. Every HEDT so far has been the last generation's microarchitecture with a letter at the end. 5960X had Haswell-E, 6950X had Broadwell-E, 7980XE had Skylake-X, and the 9980XE was a disappointing refresh of Skylake-X. If we were stating down the barrel of a correction, they'd skip Kaby lake and go to Coffee lake, but those microarchitectures are nearly identical. It would be really cheap to make Kaby Lake-X and just rename it Cascade Lake-X if they really wanted to, I am curious if that's the path they go for. There's precedent for it as well, since we've had such things as the RX 590 being "12nm" when it really was just the same old Polaris off a different Fab line.


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

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Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Dual Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - GTX 750 TI - old Seagate 1.5TB HDD - Dark moded Ubuntu (and Win7, cuz why not)

 

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*Happy Intel HEDT boi noises*


X58-X79-X99-X299 lads: Intel HEDT Xeon/i7 Megathread - Murica (But International) Parrot Gang

 

Big Rig (Done) - (Main Rig) - i7 5960X @ 4.7Ghz/3.7Ghz core/uncore - Custom Loop: 2x 360GTS with EK-ZMT/Stubbies and EK D5 pump/res combo - EVGA X99 Classified - 32GB (4x8GB) HyperX Predator DDR4 @ 3200MHz CL16 XMP - AMD Radeon VII (best TimeSpy so far: here) - 1TB 970 Evo - Corsair RM1000i - Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX TG - 6x iPPC NF-F12 2000 

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whip and nae nae

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5 hours ago, Deli said:

How many people are willing to pay $1200 for a graphics card? I bet the same people will think $1K for a CPU isn't such a big deal.

I mean a 1200 dollar gpu I can clearly see myself using it to the fullest of its ability and get my money's worth but a 1k cpu I am not certain would do any better than a cpu half its price for my use case. I think the amount of people who need that much CPU power aren't as big as the amount that could use a super powerful gpu. That isn't to say they don't exist but I would imagine they would be much less comparatively. 

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24 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

I want to see a deeper dive into these processors once they launch. Every HEDT so far has been the last generation's microarchitecture with a letter at the end. 5960X had Haswell-E, 6950X had Broadwell-E, 7980XE had Skylake-X, and the 9980XE was a disappointing refresh of Skylake-X. If we were stating down the barrel of a correction, they'd skip Kaby lake and go to Coffee lake, but those microarchitectures are nearly identical. It would be really cheap to make Kaby Lake-X and just rename it Cascade Lake-X if they really wanted to, I am curious if that's the path they go for. There's precedent for it as well, since we've had such things as the RX 590 being "12nm" when it really was just the same old Polaris off a different Fab line.

Things have been a bit less predictable since tick tock broke. The plan of alternating between architecture and process focus was missed with Kaby Lake.

 

Broadwell 14nm was a troubled shrink. Desktop CPUs were very late, almost paper launch shortly before Skylake came along anyway.

Skylake 14nm new architecture

Kaby Lake arguably should have been the first 10nm offering had tick tock still been working.

 

Anyway, up to that point, HEDT was based off the server parts, which came part-generation later than consumer desktop parts. We had Broadwell-E, then Skylake-X, and... there was no Kaby Lake or Coffe Lake server parts. Kaby Lake-X was the consumer part in a new package. I'm not up to speed on server part codenames, but there are Cascade Lake server parts, and Intel is once again cutting that down to HEDT size portions. It is different from Skylake-X in small ways, if not radically so.


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11 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Call me when we can run the Enterprise D off of a single chip. Until then I'm happy with my R5 2600 ?

But the 1701-D had 3 main computers working in tandem continually backing each-other up, all the while being able to function independently(so like the saucer section can operate when cut loose)...Alternatively there appears to have been only 1 computer when the plot needed it.  So we don't know how to meet your design requirements;  Ya want 1 pewder or three?

At least you don't want the computer from STD(discovery);  That thing runs on pixie dust, dashed hopes, and the souls of stillborns from what we can tell.

 

Regards, intel design teams PR & Marketing sub-leads intern; the 3rd.

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15 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

But the 1701-D had 3 main computers working in tandem continually backing each-other up, all the while being able to function independently

The Galaxy class is an absurdly massive and advanced starship. Have you seen this video which goes over how much square footage there is for a standard crew compliment? If it was any bigger it would have its own orbit. 


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Since the release of Zen 3K, my i7-6700 non K got old real quick. but up until that point it felt like it was keeping up.

 

 

With a price war, I might have to upgrade soon.

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Is it just me, or do the slashed prices still seem needlessly high?


CPU - i5 6600k | RAM - 16 GB DDR4 2133MHz | GPU - MSI Gaming X RX470 4GB | MOBO -  Asus z170-P

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7 hours ago, Deli said:

How many people are willing to pay $1200 for a graphics card? I bet the same people will think $1K for a CPU isn't such a big deal.

Both are expensive but the GPU has a fairly common market in playing video games. These HEDT CPUs don’t really matter for gaming so it’s down to professionals that need the extra performance over something like an i9-9900k or R9 3900X, which I suspect is a smaller group of people on enthusiast forums and just a smaller market overall.

 

 


AMD Ryzen 7 3700X | Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT | ASUS ROG Strix X470-F | 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB @3400MHz | EVGA RTX 2080S XC Ultra | EVGA GQ 650 | HP EX920 1TB / Crucial MX500 500GB / Samsung Spinpoint 1TB | Cooler Master H500M

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