Legal recourse for botched computer repair? (Canada)

[Yoinkerman]

They gave you a working system there's not really going to be a way to claim it was mishandled.  No one is going to care that Ram wasn't put in the right slots for dual channel.

[Stop kicking Me]

16 hours ago, Tao said:

Small claims court is your only recourse.  However for a few hundred dollars a judge may not be too happy for bringing such 'trifle' to court (This does happen).

Your provincial consumer protection legislation may extend your warranty for the initial motherboard death.  You would have to look up what it says. For example here in Saskatchewan, our consumer legislation gives us statutory warranties, and that a good must be of 'reasonable quality' meaning that what it is used for and the price you paid for it should have bearing on how long it should last.

I didn't really consider looking into that. Thanks for the advice!

 

The only thing is that since the problems were caused due to installation error, I'm not sure I can make an argument that the goods themselves were not of reasonable quality. I will look into the law to see if there's something similar for services though.

[Stop kicking Me]

13 hours ago, Yoinkerman said:

They gave you a working system there's not really going to be a way to claim it was mishandled.  No one is going to care that Ram wasn't put in the right slots for dual channel.

I only mentioned that the RAM was installed incorrectly because it shows a lack of professionalism, which makes a case of gross negligence easier to prove. As for your first point, that's something I took into consideration. I'm not sure if its the best defense though since the time it would take for thermal paste to corrode to the point that is has lines up pretty well with how long ago the repairs were done on my computer. He would have to argue that either I am deliberately framing him in order to extort him, or that some foreign substance coincidentally made its way into the CPU socket not long after my computer was repaired.

[Stop kicking Me]

14 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

While I do hope OP gets their problem solves, but there are some things to point out

 

• System was repaired 2 months ago, by changing to a new motherboard
• After 2 months system is dead, OP opens it up to take a look inside
• Noticed 2 unmatched sticks of ram and CPU Cooler mounting pressure is non existent
• There is a green gunk on the CPU socket

1. If CPU cooler mounting pressure is non existent, then CPU will rarely even run at stock speeds, where OP can immediately tell something isn't right
2. If thermal paste was already inside the socket, the system will not boot not matter what, even a tiny microscopic amount of paste on the pin will prevent it from booting. With that said, the system will never leave the shop in the first place, let alone where the OP managed to use it for 2 months
3. Thermal paste does not turn to liquid and seep into the underside of a CPU and on the socket, it's too viscous for it to do so

Take a pic of your entire build and post it here.

I did mention that the CPU mounting pressure was basically non-existent, but that was hyperbole. The wording I'll be using is 'insufficient'. The CPU was not overheating since the cooler was still making contact with the CPU and (copious) thermal paste. I was however able to slide the cooler around on the CPU slightly since the mounting pressure was insufficient. I just mention this because it shows a lack of professional aptitude, which helps when arguing a case of gross negligence or gross incompetence.

 

Since the motherboard was using an LGA 1511 socket, the pins are on the motherboard itself, not the CPU. The thermal paste was in-between the pins in the motherboard socket, as shown in my picture above. Over time, the thermal paste corroded, which bridged an electrical circuit between the contacts, shorting the motherboard and CPU. The tip of the pins in the motherboard socket themselves were not obstructed from what I can see, meaning that the CPU was able to make contact with the CPU socket's pins. Because of that, the computer was able to run for awhile before finally failing.

 

You are correct. I talked to the repair technician who took a look at my computer yesterday and he offered up his own theory:

He found evidence of fingerprint smudges on the underside of the CPU. He thinks that the guy who preformed my motherboard swap was holding the CPU in his hand when he was spreading the thermal paste on it, kinda like he was buttering a piece of toast. He then thinks that they installed the CPU and noticed that it wasn't booting, so they removed the CPU, at which point they noticed some thermal paste on the underside of the CPU. They then tried to clean the CPU by wiping away the thermal paste, but they didn't notice the thermal paste that stayed behind in the CPU socket. Since the CPU contacts were clean (ish), the computer booted and was functional, so they didn't think much more of it.

 

My computer is in pieces right now and I don't really feel like re-assembling a dead machine. Would you like me to post pics of each component?

 

I do appreciate people pointing out flaws in my arguments. It helps me refine the email that I'm drafting, and it will help me even more if this goes any further. Thank you for your comment!

[Stop kicking Me]

On 10/2/2019 at 10:02 AM, AngryBeaver said:

Do you have the official diagnosis back from your local repair shop? If so I would take their analysis and your pictures and approach the company or at the very least slam them where possible. I would start with their google/gmaps.

I got my diagnosis back yesterday. As soon as I'm back from class I'll post the report. The guy also told me a bunch more information verbally that he didn't necessarily want to put in writing since although he's 99% sure he's right, he's not 100% sure and so, doesn't want to risk his reputation. I'm also not posting bad reviews anywhere for now since I want to preserve some good faith in my dealings with the guy. At the end of the day, I just want my computer to work. If he doesn't want to cooperate via email, I'll go through the CRT. At that point, I can assume that good faith is starting to fade, so I'll post a bad review on google maps. If he refuses to cooperate even at that point, then I'll slam him on Yellow Pages, Yelp, Google maps, and anywhere else that his business is listed. On top of that, I'll file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

[Tao]

4 hours ago, Stop kicking Me said:

I didn't really consider looking into that. Thanks for the advice!

 

The only thing is that since the problems were caused due to installation error, I'm not sure I can make an argument that the goods themselves were not of reasonable quality. I will look into the law to see if there's something similar for services though.

I mean when your PC died originally that could have been covered.

[Stop kicking Me]

26 minutes ago, Tao said:

I mean when your PC died originally that could have been covered.

I checked but the warranty period expired

[NumLock21]

4 hours ago, Stop kicking Me said:

I did mention that the CPU mounting pressure was basically non-existent, but that was hyperbole. The wording I'll be using is 'insufficient'. The CPU was not overheating since the cooler was still making contact with the CPU and (copious) thermal paste. I was however able to slide the cooler around on the CPU slightly since the mounting pressure was insufficient. I just mention this because it shows a lack of professional aptitude, which helps when arguing a case of gross negligence or gross incompetence.

My CPU cooler does that too. You cannot have to much or to little pressure, it needs the right amount. As long as your CPU is running fine then it's okay. One thing I've discovered was if the CPU cooler has to much pressure, it can cause the system not to boot, or the memory controller to glitch out.

4 hours ago, Stop kicking Me said:

Since the motherboard was using an LGA 1511 socket, the pins are on the motherboard itself, not the CPU. The thermal paste was in-between the pins in the motherboard socket, as shown in my picture above. Over time, the thermal paste corroded, which bridged an electrical circuit between the contacts, shorting the motherboard and CPU. The tip of the pins in the motherboard socket themselves were not obstructed from what I can see, meaning that the CPU was able to make contact with the CPU socket's pins. Because of that, the computer was able to run for awhile before finally failing.

In your starter post, you've mentioned it's Arctic Silver. Did you see them use Arctic Silver or you're assuming it's Arctic Silver?

4 hours ago, Stop kicking Me said:

You are correct. I talked to the repair technician who took a look at my computer yesterday and he offered up his own theory:

He found evidence of fingerprint smudges on the underside of the CPU. He thinks that the guy who preformed my motherboard swap was holding the CPU in his hand when he was spreading the thermal paste on it, kinda like he was buttering a piece of toast. He then thinks that they installed the CPU and noticed that it wasn't booting, so they removed the CPU, at which point they noticed some thermal paste on the underside of the CPU. They then tried to clean the CPU by wiping away the thermal paste, but they didn't notice the thermal paste that stayed behind in the CPU socket. Since the CPU contacts were clean (ish), the computer booted and was functional, so they didn't think much more of it.

It's the first time I've ever heard of that theory, and where thermal paste is applied like butter on toast. If it was like done like that, just like butter on toast, no one is going to smear thermal paste all over the place. If the system isn't booting, after moving the CPU from the socket, I'm sure 99.9% of everyone out there will 1st look at the socket to check for any signs of damage and from there, they will immediately see thermal paste is on the pins and will immediately try to clean it. While doing that, they'll also check the underside of the CPU too. When installing the CPU, most will look at the CPU socket again and make sure all pins are perfect, the CPU is in the right orientation before installing it.

 

[Tao]

48 minutes ago, Stop kicking Me said:

I checked but the warranty period expired

Some provinces have statutory warranties which cannot be overridden by the standard written warranties provided by manufacturers.  A computer should last 10 years, so if a mother board dies, that would probably not be 'of reasonable quality".

You would have to check the legislation of the province you bought the computer in.

[Stop kicking Me]

5 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

My CPU cooler does that too. You cannot have to much or to little pressure, it needs the right amount. As long as your CPU is running fine then it's okay. One thing I've discovered was if the CPU cooler has to much pressure, it can cause the system not to boot, or the memory controller to glitch out.

In your starter post, you've mentioned it's Arctic Silver. Did you see them use Arctic Silver or you're assuming it's Arctic Silver?

It's the first time I've ever heard of that theory, and where thermal paste is applied like butter on toast. If it was like done like that, just like butter on toast, no one is going to smear thermal paste all over the place. If the system isn't booting, after moving the CPU from the socket, I'm sure 99.9% of everyone out there will 1st look at the socket to check for any signs of damage and from there, they will immediately see thermal paste is on the pins and will immediately try to clean it. While doing that, they'll also check the underside of the CPU too. When installing the CPU, most will look at the CPU socket again and make sure all pins are perfect, the CPU is in the right orientation before installing it.

 

I've installed the cooler myself on my old motherboard. It really was on quite loose after he installed it.

 

I know that the thermal paste is Arctic Silver because I had a friend call and ask what they use.

 

My first reaction would be the same as you described too, but I think this guy may fall in that 1%. The only reason I'm willing to believe that he would do something so nonsensical is that basically every other part of the repair was done equally poorly.

[NumLock21]

24 minutes ago, Stop kicking Me said:

I know that the thermal paste is Arctic Silver because I had a friend call and ask what they use.

The thermal paste on your cpu in the pic is not Arctic Silver.

[it_dont_work]

For such a small cost (yes its 300~ great scheme not much) it'd cost more in time and stuffing around to initiate and pursue a small claim, and since it was completed by a professional shop, worked when it left for some amount of time looks like the balance of probability is not on your side. 

 

Send a letter of demand, if your told to bugger off see what canadian consumer law can get you. a claim seems like a waste of time though. 

[doggydogmcgruff]

I agree with the others who have said that thermal paste doesn't look like Arctic Silver, it looks more like that cheap gold colored silicone based paste that's all over ebay. The gunk in your cpu socket looks to me like Flux which could explain the oxidation if there is any on the pins or the green could be it took off some of the solder mask on the cpu substrate.

[Pickles von Brine]

8 minutes ago, doggydogmcgruff said:

I agree with the others who have said that thermal paste doesn't look like Arctic Silver, it looks more like that cheap gold colored silicone based paste that's all over ebay. The gunk in your cpu socket looks to me like Flux which could explain the oxidation if there is any on the pins or the green could be it took off some of the solder mask on the cpu substrate.

To me the CPU is likely fine. If it isn't the cpu likely won't short out a replacement board. You can still try it in a board and test it. If it works, move on. If not, that sucks. Though I am sure this was mentioned somewhere and I missed it in this thread...

[Stop kicking Me]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:34 PM, it_dont_work said:

For such a small cost (yes its 300~ great scheme not much) it'd cost more in time and stuffing around to initiate and pursue a small claim, and since it was completed by a professional shop, worked when it left for some amount of time looks like the balance of probability is not on your side. 

 

Send a letter of demand, if your told to bugger off see what canadian consumer law can get you. a claim seems like a waste of time though. 

I'm not going to be able to make a claim regardless, but I do want him to think I'm willing to resort to that. Sadly, if he refuses to cooperate despite my arguing with him and potentially going through the CRT, there's not much else I can do. Luckily, I won't need to spend any extra money actually filing a claim.

[Stop kicking Me]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:05 PM, NumLock21 said:

The thermal paste on your cpu in the pic is not Arctic Silver.

How can you be sure?

[Stop kicking Me]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:33 AM, Lord Xeb said:

To me the CPU is likely fine. If it isn't the cpu likely won't short out a replacement board. You can still try it in a board and test it. If it works, move on. If not, that sucks. Though I am sure this was mentioned somewhere and I missed it in this thread...

As much as I want to test the CPU in case it still works, the issue remains that I would have to buy a new motherboard with the LGA 1151 socket. If it does work, I'm golden. Otherwise, I now have to buy a new CPU compatible with the socket. If both are dead, I would prefer to buy something from AMD since it would be more economically efficient. Then there's always the chance that the CPU does actually short out the motherboard. I know that the chances of that happening are pretty low, but they are high enough that the repair shop I took it to refused to test it. If I do buy a new motherboard and immediately short it out, then I'm left with 2 dead motherboards and a dead CPU, which only adds to the cost of all this. Plus, I can't really buy a motherboard and return it if it shorts out. Regardless of the ethical issues with doing that, there are no computer stores in town with return policies for parts. I would have to order a board online and use that, hoping that I can use Amazon or Newegg's return policy (or some other distributor). In that case, I still have to pay for shipping. My university is in a relatively remote area, so shipping costs are relatively high. If I have to pay for shipping and return shipping for a motherboard that I fried, I am still out a few bucks that I otherwise not need to spend. Sadly, I think my safest bet is to assume both the CPU and motherboard are dead.

[Stop kicking Me]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:23 AM, doggydogmcgruff said:

I agree with the others who have said that thermal paste doesn't look like Arctic Silver, it looks more like that cheap gold colored silicone based paste that's all over ebay. The gunk in your cpu socket looks to me like Flux which could explain the oxidation if there is any on the pins or the green could be it took off some of the solder mask on the cpu substrate.

Thanks for using your first post to help me out  I appreciate it.

 

I haven't worked with flux myself, and I wasn't able to find any images online to compare it to. Would you have any images of oxidized flux I can look at to compare? Also, the pins themselves are not covered in the green gunk. The gunk is deep in the socket in between the pins.

[MoonSpot]

Leave scathing reviews everywhere detailing and proving their incompetence to spare others(pics work wonders here).  It will hit their pocketbook so you can at least settle for cold, slow, long suffered and ultimately far more costly revenge.  They'll have a harder time swindling grandparents and kijiji ninjas(Moms) of the world thanks to your reviews.  Albeit not as satisfying as Lt.Worfs approach. 

 

[NumLock21]

10 hours ago, Stop kicking Me said:

How can you be sure?

I used to have it and Arctic Silver is much darker in color. It comes in small size tubes of 3.5g for $5-7 USD, to large tube 12g for $15 USD. For that tech to use a copious amount on your CPU, they would have to use at least 2-3 tubes of it, which is around $15 to $21 USD. No one is going to use that much just for a single CPU. It's a possibility they did use Arctic Silver, probably the other type. Most popular is the dark color one.

 

 

https://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/noctua_nt_h1/2.htm

[Stop kicking Me]

Around a week ago, I sent and email to the computer shop that broke my computer. Here is the email I sent:

 

Hello there,

On July 15th, 2019, I came to [Computer shop that broke my computer] with a computer that was failing to boot. After a diagnosis by your technical staff, it was determined that my motherboard was the cause and needed to be replaced. I was told that [Computer shop that broke my computer] had a motherboard in stock that was compatible with my Intel i7 6700k CPU, and that [Computer shop that broke my computer] could perform the motherboard swap. I agreed to have it done, and I received my repaired system on July 17^th, 2019.

Around 2 months later, in late September, my computer failed to boot. I opened the computer in order to troubleshoot which part could be the issue. I noticed multiple issues with the way the computer repair was conducted by [Computer shop that broke my computer].

The first thing I noticed was that the RAM was not installed in proper pairs. Instead of one pair being two 4GB sticks and the other pair being two 8GB sticks, both pairs were mismatched, with one 4GB stick and one 8GB stick per pair.

The second issue I noticed was the excessive thermal paste application. Although only just enough to provide contact with the CPU’s IHS and the CPU cooler should be used, there was some thermal paste running down the sides of the IHS onto the CPU substrate.

The third and most critical issue I noticed was a small blob of green gunk inside the CPU socket. This green gunk appears to be corrosion, which explains why the computer stopped working. Upon finding this I immediately took the computer in to a computer repair shop for further diagnosis.

I have attached a copy of the diagnosis from the repair shop. In it, the repair shop details how both the motherboard and CPU were damaged, as demonstrated by black marks on the CPU, and corrosion in the motherboard’s CPU socket. Furthermore, the repair shop attributes the issues to come from installation error. Due to this latter finding, I believe I am justified in seeking compensation for damages.

The purchase and installation of the new motherboard from [Computer shop that broke my computer] was $216.97 CAD. A new Intel i7 6700k CPU goes for $345.10 USD + $14.79 USD shipping ($480.20 CAD) for the cheapest one I was able to find from a reputable vendor; Amazon in this case. This amounts to a total cost of $697.17 CAD in damages. I understand that mistakes happen, so I’m willing to round down the total cost of damages to $600 CAD. At the end of the day, I just need a computer that works.

Please let me know your preferred method of payment. I do not want to take this issue further than is needed, as that would be a waste of both [Computer shop that broke my computer] and my time.

Best regards,

[My Name]

 

 

They have not replied to my email yet, so I am sending a reminder email today. Just want to keep y'all updated since your help has been extremely helpful to me.