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Power supply eating up too much of your case? This could be your solution.

williamcll
1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Basically these boards are 2-3 buck regulators ( 12v->3.3v, 12v->5v , 12v -> -12v) and a microcontroller for soft shut down, power good signal etc.

Linear sells 2+ rail modules you can slap on a tiny pcb and control them using a microcontroller, for example LTM4628 can do up to 5.5v and 8A (times 2) at 96% efficiency in a 15x15mm package... but it's 40$. Add a 8-10pin micro for the power good signals and shut down, a -12v inverter and a tiny ldo for the micro and you got your "picoPSU".  

More interesting is what they do with the +12V rail, do you have insight on that? I haven't tried to reverse-engineer my PicoPSU but I assume it has a solid state switch to switch the 12V line on and off if needed according to ATX PSU specifications. I don't think it does any regulation, that is left to the 12V brick supplying it. So the current limit for 12V rail is due to losses in the switch, and/or maybe any tracking required on the board.

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4 minutes ago, EPieter said:

is that safe? I wouldn't touch that while it's plugged in

It is as safe as anything else in the PC. They're powered by a 12V external brick so no high voltages.

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1 minute ago, porina said:

It is as safe as anything else in the PC. They're powered by a 12V external brick so no high voltages.

ah like that

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42 minutes ago, porina said:

More interesting is what they do with the +12V rail, do you have insight on that? I haven't tried to reverse-engineer my PicoPSU but I assume it has a solid state switch to switch the 12V line on and off if needed according to ATX PSU specifications.

Yeah, most likely there's a mosfet turning the 12v rail on or off ... limitation due to thermal dissipation... let's say a 10mOhm Rds(on) ... 10a would cause IxIxR = 100x0.01 = 1 watt of heat on the mosfet

 

It's important to remember that datasheets say those maximum advertised values are only with SOME airflow blowing over the picoPSU. With just natural convection it could eventually overheat if running at those max current limits for long periods (depends on case and internal airflow of case)

 

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15 minutes ago, mariushm said:

It's important to remember that datasheets say those maximum advertised values are only with SOME airflow blowing over the picoPSU. With just natural convection it could eventually overheat if running at those max current limits for long periods (depends on case and internal airflow of case)

 

Without looking it up, I think the PicoPSU had three ratings for the 12V line.

  1. Continuous current draw (no extra cooling)
  2. Continuous current draw (with airflow)
  3. Short term peak current draw 

Making me wonder now, how much extra space would it take to provide a 2nd or even 3rd 12V rail mosfet. You could use one for the CPU, one for GPU, one for ATX connector. It wouldn't be balanced but would help to spread the load. Will need a higher rated brick also if you try to use all that... then do you run into problems with current feed to the PSU. You eventually end up with those multi-brick arrangements seen with some high(er) end all-in-ones and laptops...

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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11 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

in series. please tell me it was in series. LOL

Yeah I hope lol. It was someone's friend on the forum so I never actually saw it but that would have been great

 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

72 VOLTS COMING UP

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ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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8 minutes ago, porina said:

Making me wonder now, how much extra space would it take to provide a 2nd or even 3rd 12V rail mosfet. You could use one for the CPU, one for GPU, one for ATX connector.

It would still be limited by the total heat dissipated inside the circuit board.. again it's price vs performance battle.

They could go with something like FDM8530 that's a dual mosfet with 1.25mOhm rds(on) at 35a  but it costs money ... let's say 0.6$ if they buy 10k units... it's 1$ if you buy 500.

The costs add up and like i said... 23$ retail means the BOM is most likely half of this price.

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You can power the compute with 9v batteries in series, but for a very short period of time as the 9v batteries have very low discharge current... something like 0.2-0.5A

 

A modern ATX psu will start with as little as 80v AC (~ 110v DC) and you have to account for the voltage drop when high current is pulled from batteries so you could connect let's say 40 x 9v in series for 360v DC...  and within minutes the voltage will go down to around 150v ( 40x4..5v, discharged 9v batteries)

 

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Why is this still here? It isn't news, mods please remove or delete. These are super common in ultra sff builds.

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I believe kinda things are more for emended systems with custom enclosures that already have their own kind of PSU that has a 12V output. (Like an ATM, or a surveillance system.)

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7 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Some kid tried to power his PC off of a bunch of 9V batteries and killed his GPU

Lol I remember that

 

(But we never got pics so I don't quite think it was true)

I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

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Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

How many watts do I needATX 3.0 & PCIe 5.0 spec, PSU misconceptions, protections explainedgroup reg is bad

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19 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Pico PSUs have been around for years, this is nothing new.

 

They do require an external brick.

Yeah, saw the pic and went o, I seen that over in the Compact Splash thread on some builds.

When done right, the external brick helps a lot with those small cases.

 

Hmmm, re-found the pics.

Spoiler

92e447a9_450W-DC-ATX_.thumb.jpeg.6f3e75776ce0714fe93c00347c5f8349.jpeg

 

5c352136_DC-ATX-Brick_.thumb.jpeg.e62d88d869c6ef96e75d788a46cb2ffe.jpeg

 

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9 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Yep. They also are not PSUs... the are half of one. A laptop brick is needed (I have a 250/300w one to put this pc in a book for. XD )

It is definitely a PSU, it provides the various voltages that are needed by the system, it just takes 12v DC power rather than 120v AC.  By your logic, a standard 120v atx psu isn't a psu because it needs the transformer on the power pole to take the 13,800 volts from the line to the 120v that goes to your house.

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On 9/24/2019 at 1:08 AM, FezBoy said:

It is definitely a PSU, it provides the various voltages that are needed by the system, it just takes 12v DC power rather than 120v AC.  By your logic, a standard 120v atx psu isn't a psu because it needs the transformer on the power pole to take the 13,800 volts from the line to the 120v that goes to your house.

Your GPU also takes various voltages and routes/changes/adapts them.

 

It's turtles all the way down.

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