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williamcll

Richard Stallman of GNU leaves MIT email leaks

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Founder of the free software foundation as well as creator of GNU has left MIT as well as the free software foundation after it was revealed that the recently died Jeffery Epstein had made donations to the institute as well as a few other issues.

 

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Free software pioneer Richard Stallman has resigned from his posts at MIT and the Free Software Foundation after leaked emails showed him quibbling over the definition of rape in a conversation related to Jeffrey Epstein.

The conversation that triggered Stallman's fall started when someone—names other than Stallman's are redacted in the leaked emails—posted about a planned protest at MIT. The email stated that famed MIT computer scientist Marvin Minsky "is accused of assaulting one of Epstein's victims."

Stallman objected, saying that the blurb "does an injustice" to Minsky because even if it's true that the then-17-year-old had sex with Minsky, "the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing." (One witness to the alleged incident says that Minsky, who died in 2016, declined to have sex with her.)

Stallman has long been famous for his extreme devotion to the cause of free software. He spearheaded the GNU project to produce a Unix-like operating system that would be free for anyone to use and modify. GNU software became a key part of the operating system most people today call Linux—to the immense irritation of Stallman, who believes the GNU components are significant enough that the package should be called GNU/Linux.

Also significant was Stallman's philosophical, political, and legal work on behalf of free software. Stallman founded the Free Software Foundation in 1985 to advocate against the spread of proprietary software. By 1989, he had drafted the GNU General Public License, a "copyleft" software license that guarantees users the freedom to modify software as long as they share any resulting code under the same license.

For decades, Richard Stallman has traveled the world extolling the benefits of free software. Before he travels to give a speech, he frequently sends event hosts a lengthy email describing his conditions.

Stallman is legendary for his stubbornness and ideological inflexibility. Event organizers seeking to host Stallman are banned from using the terms "Linux" or "open source"—a term he views as a deliberate rejection of the moral stance implied by the term "free software."

Stallman also makes a number of suggestions that have nothing to do with politics or software.

"If you can find a host for me that has a friendly parrot, I will be very very glad," Stallman wrote in a 2012 edition of the email. However, he asked hosts not to purchase a parrot for his benefit.

"If you buy a captured wild parrot, you will promote a cruel and devastating practice, and the parrot will be emotionally scarred before you get it," he wrote.

For decades, Stallman has refused to use any proprietary software, which has meant opting out of many contemporary technology products. If organizers want to stream his speech, they must arrange to do so using entirely free software—a nontrivial challenge in a world where so much video streaming software is proprietary.

That stubbornness was on display in the email thread that caused Stallman's downfall at MIT. At one point, someone linked to a deposition given by one of Epstein's victims.

"I visited that URL and got a blank window," Stallman wrote. "It is on Google Drive, which demands running nonfree software in order to see it." He asked someone else to download the file and send him the part relating to Minsky.

When Stallman's emails were published, it caused an uproar at MIT, in the free software community, and on the broader Internet.

People began digging into Stallman's past writings and found other controversial comments. "I think that everyone age 14 or above ought to take part in sex, though not indiscriminately," Stallman wrote in a 2003 post about the UK banning minors from having access to sexually explicit material. "Some people are ready earlier."

"It is unnatural for humans to abstain from sex past puberty, and while I wouldn't try to pressure anyone to participate, I certainly encourage everyone to do so," he added.

In 2011, he criticized laws against child pornography. "'Child pornography' might be a photo of yourself or your lover that the two of you shared," he wrote. "It might be an image of a sexually mature teenager that any normal adult would find attractive. What's heinous about having such a photo?"

"Even when it is uncontroversial to call the subject depicted a "child", that is no excuse for censorship," he added. "Having a photo or drawing does not hurt anyone, so and if you or I think it is disgusting, that is no excuse for censorship."

In the last week, after his comments received widespread attention, Stallman said he was rethinking some of these views.

"Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it," he wrote on Saturday. "Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm her psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that."

In another post later the same day, Stallman objected to headlines saying he defended Jeffrey Epstein.

"Headlines say that I defended Epstein," Stallman wrote. "Nothing could be further from the truth. I've called him a 'serial rapist,' and said he deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I defended him—and other inaccurate claims—and feel a real hurt because of what they believe I said."

"I'm sorry for that hurt," Stallman added. "I wish I could have prevented the misunderstanding."

On Monday, Stallman resigned from MIT "due to pressure on MIT and me over a series of misunderstandings and mischaracterizations." He also resigned as president of the Free Software Foundation.


Thoughts: That was unfortunate, hopefully he can find another place to work at and contribute further to free software. But what is done is done and I think he made the safe move of stepping down instead of having lengthy arguments on twitter and then various institutional boycotts or whatever legal action that could take place. 
 

source:https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns
            https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman-leaves-mit-after-controversial-remarks-on-rape/

            https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/17/rms-fsf-mit-epstein/


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People in positions of importance and power need to learn to stay off of Twitter. It only comes back to bite them in the ass. 


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It's the right decision...  you don't try to defend creeps by speculating that the underage girl wanted it.  I'm glad he's modifying his views, but the fact that he simply sees things as a matter of "misunderstandings and mischaracterizations" suggests he doesn't really get it.  You apologize and move forward.

 

Hate to say it, but Stallman also really needed a taste of humble pie.  I've found it highly ironic that the supposed champion of freedom is a rigid ideologue who forces everyone he works with to be just as trapped and enslaved as he is.  A Chinese iPhone user has more practical freedom than he does.

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Stallman has always been a bit...open...about his opinions on age of consent. This time has been his political suicide.


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5 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It's the right decision...  you don't try to defend creeps by speculating that the underage girl wanted it.  I'm glad he's modifying his views, but the fact that he simply sees things as a matter of "misunderstandings and mischaracterizations" suggests he doesn't really get it.  You apologize and move forward.

 

Hate to say it, but Stallman also really needed a taste of humble pie.  I've found it highly ironic that the supposed champion of freedom is a rigid ideologue who forces everyone he works with to be just as trapped and enslaved as he is.  A Chinese iPhone user has more practical freedom than he does.

Stallman is also very autistic and is extremely black and white on issues 


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I don't like that people are calling him a pedo and attacking him. He just thinks people of any age are able to consent, not just people 18+. That doesn't sound like he is evil and wants to take advantage of people. Sounds more like he is out of touch socially and doesn't understand how younger people can more easily be manipulated.

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After reading through what he wrote I have to say, I am on his side on this. I did not read the particular emails in question as him defending a pedophile despite what some news sites like Vice tries to make it out. 

 

He said some very specific things which I agree with. He also asked revelant questions that people might not be comfortable with answering. 

 

I think that a lot of debate regarding things like age of consent and prostitution always turns into people shouting and acting irrational. You can't even discuss the issue because as soon as you quastion anything with our current legal system and don't have the opinion that "if someone has sex with anyone less than 18 years old they deserve to die a horrible death!" then you're suddenly a pedo or defending pedos. 

 

In this instance a friend of Stallman had been at a party where a 17 year old offered sex to him, and he agreed. People started accusing him of rape and pedophilia and Stallman started defending his dead friend by saying things along the line of "was it really rape if he believed it was consensual".

 

I you were at a party and a 17 year old (you didnt know their age at the time) offered you sex, would you see yourself as a pedophile and rapist? If they came up to you and offered you the sex that is. Also assuming both of you had been drinking alcohol. 

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2 hours ago, Commodus said:

It's the right decision...  you don't try to defend creeps by speculating that the underage girl wanted it.  I'm glad he's modifying his views, but the fact that he simply sees things as a matter of "misunderstandings and mischaracterizations" suggests he doesn't really get it.  You apologize and move forward.

I'll preface this by "I don't know all the details and many are impossible to know" and "There are many evils in the world which do need to be addressed"

Using 18 as "age of majority" is pretty darn arbitrary. For 99% of human history, you'd be lynched (or burned, or tortured, or drug behind a horse) for trying to enforce that in the context of intercourse. In most of Europe, Canada and the US, 16 is the age of consent and many locales have near-age exemptions. It also flies in the face of science, in the sense that fertility is generally highest in the years preceding that. I would NOT argue against fining people go after youth. 

 

The same applies to photography. Consenting individuals of sound mind should be the standard. Age does NOT guarantee maturity and drawing arbitrary lines and applying draconian measures as retribution is illiberal. Two teenagers in love should not be placed on a list for the rest of their lives for committing a victimless crime and that rationale can be expanded to other cases. No profound victimization, no profound draconian measures. Screaming "It doesn't count as consent if [arbitrary limitation]" can go very, very wrong and result in substantial human rights violations, especially given the revival of "mob justice", crowded prisons where it's a hobby to abuse certain categories of people, indefinite black listing, etc.


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2 hours ago, williamcll said:

Event organizers seeking to host Stallman are banned from using the terms "Linux" or "open source"—a term he views as a deliberate rejection of the moral stance implied by the term "free software."

 

2 hours ago, williamcll said:

If organizers want to stream his speech, they must arrange to do so using entirely free software

I always wondered why the FSF seemed to make so little progress over the past 30 years. Now I wonder how anyone ever had the patience to take them seriously to begin with.

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5 minutes ago, comander said:

It also flies in the face of science, in the sense that fertility is generally highest in the years preceding that.

It really doesn't. The age of consent is approached from the psychological aspect.


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Everybody turns to dust.

 

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15 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It really doesn't. The age of consent is approached from the psychological aspect.

Consent means something is voluntary, not that it is wise. 

 

I've seen people willfully and eagerly, with full information, do things which are utterly stupid. That does not mean that their will was violated. 

 

 

Taken to an extreme... should pretty much every single animal be slaughtered for acting on instinct? Should my childhood dog have been killed? The usual counter-argument is "but humans are different" but the way that is addressed seems awfully arbitrary and draconian. 

It is absolutely inhumane to treat people like murderers (and in many aspects WORSE) for committing victimless crimes which are defined based off of arbitrary, socially constructed cutoffs. It's akin to arresting scores of homosexuals for buggery on the basis that they're incapable to consent to anal intercourse by using a bunch of mental gymnastics. 

 

Do be aware that I am NOT making an argument towards the legalization (or even decriminalization) of intercourse with a sexually immature child. There's a huge difference between 17.99 years of age and 7.99 in terms of mental capacity, desires, etc.


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I thought it was fairly well known that Stallman had made some... very questionable comments on rape and pedophilia years ago. I guess it didn't have the outreach of the Epstein case.

 

I agree with a lot of Stallman's stances when it comes to software and copyright but at some point enough is enough, defending rape (especially when it's pedophilia) shouldn't be tolerated.

 

@comander given the context I think it's safe to assume that we're talking about the rape of a minor. Whether it's worse to rape a 17 yo than an 18 yo isn't something that I find particularly relevant to the conversation.

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

In this instance a friend of Stallman had been at a party where a 17 year old offered sex to him, and he agreed. People started accusing him of rape and pedophilia and Stallman started defending his dead friend by saying things along the line of "was it really rape if he believed it was consensual"

It's still rape if the person is being coerced, let alone if they aren't considered capable of consent. That doesn't necessarily make Stallman's friend a rapist if he was completely oblivious to the situation (though what Epstein was doing was a pretty public secret) but nonetheless a rape occurred. From what I saw it seems that Stallman was contesting that there was a rape at all, not just that his friend knew what he was doing. And paired with his previous statements on the topic his stance seems to be pretty alarming.

 

I don't think he's a pedophile or that he means any harm with this but... I just don't think he understands what he's talking about, and on things like this that can be dangerous.


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A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

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Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

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Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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3 hours ago, williamcll said:
Thoughts: That was unfortunate, hopefully he can find another place to work at and contribute further to free software. 

That is not how blacklisting works. Anyone who works with him will be smeared a pedophile and blacklisted as well. His career is over. That his incredibly libertarian views on sexuality have nothing at all to do with software makes no difference.

 

This is interesting piece by one of the people who got him removed from MIT. https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88

 

I particularly like how she embraces that this is a blacklisting for wrong think, by starting with "1. Richard Stallman has problematic opinions." Then notice how at the end she veers off into other far left issues that MIT has failed to appease her on.

 

Tech is ruled by leftwing people who think and act like Stalinists now. There is no future in it for anyone who commits the sin of wrong think.

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19 minutes ago, comander said:

Do be aware that I am NOT making an argument towards the legalization (or even decriminalization) of intercourse with a sexually immature child. There's a huge difference between 17.99 years of age and 7.99 in terms of mental capacity, desires, etc.

Surely you'll agree that the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that a full psychoanalysis of the victim after the fact isn't good enough to determine if they were mature enough to make that decision.

 

I don't hear a lot of people being convicted of statutory rape for sleeping with their one year younger partner - while it's illegal, someone would still have to sue you for it to come out... and that wouldn't happen if both parties were ok with what they did. On the other hand, if the limit wasn't in the 16 to 18 yo range you might be subjecting a lot of emotionally unstable teens to some very unsavory pressures.

 

We can argue over where exactly the line should be but to be honest I find it pretty pointless - one or two years won't make a big difference to almost anyone. Might as well make it coincide with the age at which you're considered an adult in all other aspects of your life (though the US still wants you to be 21 to drink... for some reason).


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Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Sauron said:

 

@comander given the context I think it's safe to assume that we're talking about the rape of a minor. Whether it's worse to rape a 17 yo than an 18 yo isn't something that I find particularly relevant to the conversation.

It's still rape if the person is being coerced, let alone if they aren't considered capable of consent. That doesn't necessarily make Stallman's friend a rapist if he was completely oblivious to the situation (though what Epstein was doing was a pretty public secret) but nonetheless a rape occurred. From what I saw it seems that Stallman was contesting that there was a rape at all, not just that his friend knew what he was doing. And paired with his previous statements on the topic his stance seems to be pretty alarming.

 

I don't think he's a pedophile or that he means any harm with this but... I just don't think he understands what he's talking about, and on things like this that can be dangerous.

My principle argument is that 18 as a threshold is completely absurd. The majority of people lose their virginity before that time - assuming it's to someone their age, this would imply that 60% or so of people should have been locked up. 


The same applies to pornography laws - which to my knowledge include text-based sexting. Should two 17 year olds who wrote dirty messages to each other be treated worse than murderers? There are plenty of jurisdictions that try 16 and 17 year olds as adults for whatever crimes they commit. 

 

The usual argument has something to do with developmental psychology... why not age 25? That has more of a scientific basis than 18... 

 

Coercion is a different matter entirely. Same with taking advantage of those without proper mental capacity. 

Age does NOT denote mental capacity though. In my own case, I had more wits about me at age 15 (at least in certain contexts) than some 50 year olds, and at 20 I had more wits about me than most 110 year olds. Age is about as accurate of a proxy as BMI is for fitness. If someone acts voluntarily and is of reasonable mental capacity that ought to be adequate. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Surely you'll agree that the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that a full psychoanalysis of the victim after the fact isn't good enough to determine if they were mature enough to make that decision.

 

I don't hear a lot of people being convicted of statutory rape for sleeping with their one year younger partner - while it's illegal, someone would still have to sue you for it to come out... and that wouldn't happen if both parties were ok with what they did. On the other hand, if the limit wasn't in the 16 to 18 yo range you might be subjecting a lot of emotionally unstable teens to some very unsavory pressures.

 

We can argue over where exactly the line should be but to be honest I find it pretty pointless - one or two years won't make a big difference to almost anyone. Might as well make it coincide with the age at which you're considered an adult in all other aspects of your life (though the US still wants you to be 21 to drink... for some reason).

 

The sound approach would be to graduate measures. You can impose heavy civil sanctions. A $20,000 fine is enough to scare people away without outright being tyrannical. I would argue that age would be a factor that can be considered, and it could even be treated as a guideline but using it as a bright line is lazy and errors on the side of heavy handedness. 

 

Also enforcement rates tend to matter more than the severity of punishment in many cases... relying on "well it won't be enforced" is pretty capacious. I would argue that less strict punishments should be the norm but higher punishment rates should be implemented. Also in many cases, abuses aren't reported because people don't feel the punishment fits the crime. (One example - when mandatory arrests became the norm for domestic abuse calls, reporting rates dropped - in this case arguably well-intentioned but draconian measures caused more harm than good) 

 

For what it's worth, I'd probably use a formula based approach to come up with guidelines - think half-age + 7 or something similar with some cut off (e.g. the rule stops when the younger partner is 25) and then a re-implementation in the other direction to limit elder abuse (i.e. a 17 year old shouldn't be fooling around with a 98 year old rich guy with cancer).


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1 hour ago, comander said:

A $20,000 fine is enough to scare people away without outright being tyrannical.

Fines just mean that people like Epstein could just do as they please because they have money. That might work for speeding, not so much for abuse.

 

And while relying on things not being enforced isn't great, for this sort of thing it works quite well - besides if the concern is about teens being only a few months apart then surely some exceptions can be added to the law, like a limit on how much difference in age there can be while you're under 18 and the other person isn't; lowering the age of consent would just produce the same "problem" at an earlier age and getting rid of it entirely would probably open a huge can of worms that I don't feel is necessary.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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Just now, Sauron said:

Fines just mean that people like Epstein could just do as they please because they have money. That might work for speeding, not so much for abuse.

 

And while relying on things not being enforced isn't great, for this sort of thing it works quite well - besides if the concern is about teens being only a few months apart then surely some exceptions can be added to the law, like a limit on how much difference in age there can be while you're under 18 and the other person isn't; lowering the age of consent would just produce the same "problem" at an earlier age and getting rid of it entirely would probably open a huge can of worms that I don't feel is necessary.

Abuse would still be a criminal matter. 

Also no exceptions within the law is NOT theoretical. In California for example, there is no near age exemption... and the majority of high school students don't graduate virgins. 

The current paradigm suffers from the fallacy of black and white thinking. 


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3 minutes ago, comander said:

Also no exceptions within the law is NOT theoretical. In California for example, there is no near age exemption... and the majority of high school students don't graduate virgins.

Well then perhaps California should update their laws, but that's just a detail - what's being argued here is the validity of an age threshold, the specifics of each state are kind of beyond the point.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Sauron said:

Well then perhaps California should update their laws, but that's just a detail - what's being argued here is the validity of an age threshold, the specifics of each state are kind of beyond the point.

I again argue that a one size fits all approach creates undue biases within the judicial system. Gradiation isn't a new concept, laws can be enacted for serial offenders and there can be a gradual ramp up with respect to penalties. 


Civil offenses generally lack mens rea requirements allowing for much easier enforcement and the consequences can be painful and shameful while not being life-shattering. Note that this represents a middle ground. Victimless crimes are much less penalized and egregious cases of "this is really bad" (e.g. 40 yo with a 9 year old who was threatened with a weapon) can still be treated criminally. 


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7 hours ago, Sauron said:

From what I saw it seems that Stallman was contesting that there was a rape at all, not just that his friend knew what he was doing.

Nope, that is not what he was doing.

It sounds like you have been reading articles from for example Vice, but do not let their lies fool you. Do not let news outlets with an agenda intercept quotes for you, because they will not be honest about it. Here is the exact quote from Stallman:

Quote

We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.

Vice and The Daily Beast took that quote and then in their articles wrote that Stallman described the victims as "entirely willing" (which he didn't, he said they might have appeared willing).

 

Here is the quote from Stallman, in its entirety, so that people can make up their own minds.

Quote

The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky:
“deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])”


The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X.


The accusation quoted is a clear example of inflation. The reference reports the claim that Minsky had sex with one of Epstein’s harem.
(See https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey-epstein-sex-trafficking-island-court-records-unsealed.) Let’s presume that was true (I see no reason to disbelieve it).


The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing. Only that they had sex.

 

We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was
being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.

 

I’ve concluded from various examples of accusation inflation that it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation.

 

Whatever conduct you want to criticize, you should describe it with a specific term that avoids moral vagueness about the nature of the criticism.

 

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By the way, if you want the full story here are the things surrounding this.

 

 

Jeffrey Epstein is a diseased bank and finance worker who earlier this year was arrested for sex trafficking of minors. He died in jail. I believe he also was a large contributor (monetary) to MIT.

Marvin Minsky was a person working at MIT researching AI. He died a few years ago.

Richard Stallman is a person who worked at MIT and was a close friend of Marvin Minsky. He is mostly known for the GPL (open source license used by a wide variety of software) and his works at the Free Software Foundation.

 

 

1) Because of financing reasons, Marvin Minsky was invited over to Jeffrey Epstein's private island, along with several other people.

 

2) At the island, Epstein asked a then 17 year old girl to have sex with Minsky.

 

3) In a fairly newly unsealed deposition, (linked above) it was revealed that the 17 year old girl was asked to have sex with Minsky. Although it is worth noting that she never said that they actually had sex, only that Epstein asked her to. It is also worth noting that at least one witness have said that Minsky turned the offer down, which makes sense since otherwise the 17 year old girl would probably have said that they had sex at the island, not just that she was asked to have sex.

 

4) Now, a few years later, some people started accusing Minsky and others of sexual assault and started a rally at the school, calling for people at MIT to resign because of involvements with Epstein (mostly claims of "they probably knew about Epstein's crimes but didn't say anything").

 

5) When Stallman saw his diseased friend get accused of sexual assault he said that the terms used to describe him was a bit unfair. The full statement can be found in my previous post.

 

6) Now people hate Stallman for not wanting Minsky's head on a stick for allegedly having had sex with what seemed like a willing and mature woman. Because as we all known, facts doesn't matter. What we know is that a 17 year old was asked to have sex with Minsky by a third party and therefore Minsky should be labeled a pedo and rapist! Anyone who disagrees with this is clearly themselves a pedo and rapist!

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10 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I you were at a party and a 17 year old (you didnt know their age at the time) offered you sex, would you see yourself as a pedophile and rapist? If they came up to you and offered you the sex that is. Also assuming both of you had been drinking alcohol.

There's two very simple remedies to this scenario.

 

1) Don't drink/get drunk

2) Don't have sex outside of marriage

 

Problem solved.  And don't tell me that's unreasonable, because plenty of people are capable of thinking with their head, and not their nether regions.

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27 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

There's two very simple remedies to this scenario.

 

1) Don't drink/get drunk

2) Don't have sex outside of marriage

 

Problem solved.  And don't tell me that's unreasonable, because plenty of people are capable of thinking with their head, and not their nether regions.

I think both of those things are unreasonable to expect. If we look at society in the west I would not be surprised if 95% of people do not want to give up neither drinking alcohol nor sex outside of marriage.

The people who refrain from both are in the vast minority.

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2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

There's two very simple remedies to this scenario.

 

1) Don't drink/get drunk

2) Don't have sex outside of marriage

 

Problem solved.  And don't tell me that's unreasonable, because plenty of people are capable of thinking with their head, and not their nether regions.

You don't live in 2019 do you? The world might be a better place if that was the case, it probably would be, but its just not realistic.


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I don't like Stallman, but

1) His statement is often quoted out of context

2) A 17 year old isn't a child and is fully capable of consent

3) Stallman has said dumber stuff in the past -> "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children." - Richard Matthew Stallman

4) Twitter is worse than 8chan


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