Intel wants reviewers to benchmark using windows media player instead of cinebench for low end mobile

[pas008]

16 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Oh for sure but it's one thing investing money into research, it's another thing entirely to have actual real world use case data being fed back to you in real time.

 

I don't doubt that Intel is 100% aware of which class of users are using what application but I do doubt they have accurate statistics for every different class. HEDT is likely the class they have the least real world data on because, afaik, they sell zero OEM HEDT systems.

 

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

They aren't really an OEM, more a System Integrator. They make systems from vendor/supplier parts and validate these in to products you can buy from them and customization ability. Service they offer is advice, support and software compatibility guarantee which is an actually useful thing when considering things like SolidWorks and computer driven industrial machinery. 

ime?

i really dont think its that deep but i want some conspiracy theorist to agree oh wait it boots to connect then before windows too?

 

oooh hmmm

 

[Master Disaster]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't understand what is baffling about it.  They are saying that reviewers are using cinebench in reviews of 2in1's way in excess of the number of users who would actually need that information.  They claim it is no good because those reviews are a "disservice" to the reader.   If they did not have data from portable devices they could not make that claim.  Conversely with the data they have on HEDT they have said they promote Cinebench testing in those products:

 

 

Did you watch Der8auer's video at all? It's baffling because the presentation of the portable device data was used in a section that was clearly labelled as Desktop PCs which IMO makes it very misleading and possibly even straight misrepresentation.

 

It's not like they cherry picked some benchmark numbers, they used laptop data to try and represent the average use case of a desktop user.

 

Portable=/=Desktop? I don't think so.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Did you watch Der8auer's video at all? It's baffling because the presentation of the portable device data was used in a section that was clearly labelled as Desktop PCs which IMO makes it very misleading and possibly even straight misrepresentation.

 

It's not like they cherry picked some benchmark numbers, they used laptop data to try and represent the average use case of a desktop user.

No, I read the Intel article on it.

[Master Disaster]

Just now, mr moose said:

No, I read the Intel article on it.

Watch his video, it's linked on page one. He goes through the entire slide show and shows why it's incorrect information.

 

It's a pretty bad thing for a marketing department to have done tbh.

[pas008]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Did you watch Der8auer's video at all? It's baffling because the presentation of the portable device data was used in a section that was clearly labelled as Desktop PCs which IMO makes it very misleading and possibly even straight misrepresentation.

 

It's not like they cherry picked some benchmark numbers, they used laptop data to try and represent the average use case of a desktop user.

well considering most data comes from mobile like devices i cant argue about it, i believe you had article on this saying intel is  focusing less on desktop, and intels new 5 core cpu that uses 7w shows this

look at your phone how fast it tells you, you arent on a network, or how about before windows connects how your license isnt valid, or how about ime? etc etc etc

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Watch his video, it's linked on page one. He goes through the entire slide show and shows why it's incorrect information.

 

It's a pretty bad thing for a marketing department to have done tbh.

Was he there or did he just show the slides? It looks like he is showing the slides but wasn't there and has taken them out of context.  Intel addressed that.

 

https://medium.com/performance-at-intel/food-for-thought-on-our-ifa-event-395dc775de9

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

well considering most data comes from mobile like devices i cant argue about it, i believe you had article on this saying intel is  focusing less on desktop, and intels new 5 core cpu that uses 7w shows this

look at your phone how fast it tells you, you arent on a network, or how about before windows connects how your license isnt valid, or how about ime? etc etc etc

Which is fine and all but don't take data from my orange and then send it back to me as data from my pineapple.

[pas008]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

Which is fine and all but don't take data from my orange and then send it back to me as data from my pineapple.

data does say in small print from what? notebook and 2in1? on op?

 

[Thaldor]

4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

https://medium.com/performance-at-intel/food-for-thought-on-our-ifa-event-395dc775de9

 

@spartaman64 Intel released something of an response to all of this.

Oh, Intel just has terrible marketing just as Der8auer said. "Hey slap that title slide in the middle of the topic because that what cool kids do!" "Oh yeah,  we are finally just as cool as Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer when they danced while revealing Windows 95". Only thing that slideshow misses is a fuck ton of clipart but I can guarantee that there were those flashy and "exciting" transitions between each slide just as there was a title slide slapped like a week old trout in the middle of a topic.

[Master Disaster]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Was he there or did he just show the slides? It looks like he is showing the slides but wasn't there and has taken them out of context.  Intel addressed that.

 

https://medium.com/performance-at-intel/food-for-thought-on-our-ifa-event-395dc775de9

That's an interesting read, looks like Roman did get the context wrong....

 

Funny he pointed out the 82% slide and said he had no idea what it meant, turns out it meant he was wrong.

 

I wonder if he'll do a follow up video now it's been explained?

 

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Which is fine and all but don't take data from my orange and then send it back to me as data from my pineapple.

 

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

data does say in small print from what? notebook and 2in1? on op?

 

we should be  questioning how these fuckers gather this  data period

was our privacy violated and how

 

1 minute ago, Thaldor said:

Oh, Intel just has terrible marketing just as Der8auer said. "Hey slap that title slide in the middle of the topic because that what cool kids do!" "Oh yeah,  we are finally just as cool as Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer when they danced while revealing Windows 95". Only thing that slideshow misses is a fuck ton of clipart but I can guarantee that there were those flashy and "exciting" transitions between each slide just as there was a title slide slapped like a week old trout in the middle of a topic.

op has small print too notebook and 2in1?

 

 

am i missing something here

cialis has small print too lol for longer than  4 hours and many others

 

think many or missing the fricken point or am i?

[Blademaster91]

15 minutes ago, pas008 said:

well considering most data comes from mobile like devices i cant argue about it, i believe you had article on this saying intel is  focusing less on desktop, and intels new 5 core cpu that uses 7w shows this

look at your phone how fast it tells you, you arent on a network, or how about before windows connects how your license isnt valid, or how about ime? etc etc etc

I'd have to assume Intel has enough data from OEM desktops to know what most people are doing with them, and I would guess it probably isn't much different than what most people do on laptops, would be alarming if they're using the IME to gather info though but not too surprising.

Intel has a new cpu that uses 7w? I missed out on that one lol I don't keep on top of mobile cpus.

8 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Oh, Intel just has terrible marketing just as Der8auer said. "Hey slap that title slide in the middle of the topic because that what cool kids do!" "Oh yeah,  we are finally just as cool as Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer when they danced while revealing Windows 95". Only thing that slideshow misses is a fuck ton of clipart but I can guarantee that there were those flashy and "exciting" transitions between each slide just as there was a title slide slapped like a week old trout in the middle of a topic.

Tbh not like AMD's marketing is any less cringey, a recent one being AMD trying to tell consumers 110C was fine on their GPUs with the stock blower, no one even really batted an eye at that.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

we should be  questioning how these fuckers gather this  data period

was our privacy violated and how

 

 

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'd have to assume Intel has enough data from OEM desktops to know what most people are doing with them,

 

Like most companies they probably send out hundreds of thousands of client surveys asking for feedback and what they do with their systems.  HP, Dell, lenevo would do the same (although lenovo probably just collects that data through spyware anyway).

[pas008]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

I'd have to assume Intel has enough data from OEM desktops to know what most people are doing with them, and I would guess it probably isn't much different than what most people do on laptops. Intel has a new cpu that uses 7w? I missed out on that one lol.

Tbh not like AMD's marketing is any less cringey, a recent one being AMD trying to tell consumers 110C was fine on their GPUs with the stock blower, no one even really batted an eye at that.

lakefield thats on their terms 5 cores or something like that coming out soon

 

but point is how is this information being gathered?

 

and yes amd marketing is just as bad but soon new bios? fix boost? hope so could give them another edge but quietly, which could become non existant if intel counters harder

or we need more rereviews like with the 7970 which hurt them bad

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Like most companies they probably send out hundreds of thousands of client surveys asking for feedback and what they do with their systems.  HP, Dell, lenevo would do the same (although lenovo probably just collects that data through spyware anyway).

not going to let intel off so easily

many of us think windows 10 phones home like no tomorrow and criticizes it but is it all really windows 10?

how come intel machines have many fucking more model numbers than amd but amd runs out of space with less model numbers and less memory config

why cant intel cpu operate correctly without having chipset drivers which microsoft install automatically now even if dont want that shit?

i'm not stirring up conspiracy like theories but then i am seeing few here and there myself

 

but on topic i'd love for a great multitasking not multithreaded benchmark

who the fuck uses their pc or notebook or even phone to do one fucking thing

we all almost listen to music

watch video while messaging and maybe while gaming

and for desktop users might have a video going too along with a shop bot and couple browser tabs and monitoring software and much more

not to mention downloading or uploading shit

where the fuck is that bench

 

oh wait i got sidetracked again, remember everyone complaining about windows phoning home? is really only ms doing it or is it intel included?

fuck the company is called intel

i'm going to pour myself another drink and question this until someone proves me wrong, bet ill be dead in 2 days from pouring and the alcohol lol

 

[TechyBen]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Don't go presenting facts around here,  people don't like it after they've gone on a tirade about how evil Intel is. 

Someones opinion piece of their own opinion piece? Huh?

From the article:

Quote

 

Spoiler

 

Specifically, here is the transcript of the event:

[CLX-X slide on screen]

“But we’re excited about what this means for the high-end desktop brand. We’re committed to it. We are committed to having leadership products. And this is an example of us making the moves necessary to make that happen.”

[Move to “82%” slide]

“Alright, so that was enough of a divergence on the desktop so let’s go into mobile for a little bit. Some of you might have already seen this type of data before. This 82% represents the percentage of notebook reviewers that came to our Ice Lake SDS performance preview out in Santa Clara and decided to run Cinebench.”

Clearly you can see that in context, and with the voice over of me presenting, the move away from desktop discussion to notebook discussion is very clear. Without the voice over…not so much. Consider this one of my personal learning experiences for making slides and presenting!

Windows on Arm comparison

Another area that lacked context with only the slides was my section comparing a “day in the life” of using a Windows on Arm notebook and an Intel-based notebook using the Core i7–8500Y. The goal of this demo was to show what I consider basic applications from a VPN, to Photoshop Elements, to Dropbox, to a game, that were incompatible with the Windows on Arm platform.

With the slides you only see images that show applications not working, not loading, unable to install, etc. At the event itself you were able to see those same applications running and launching and working on the Core i7-based laptop as you would expect on a “Windows without compromise” experience. (You also missed me wearing a set of R2-D2 Mickey Mouse ears, but a story for another time…)

 

 

So they cherry picked and complained others were "cherry picking". No, the reviewers were being consistent. As said. You do a 0-60 in the 3 wheeled reliant, and the Porsche Electric Turbo (That's not what that word means Porsche Meme ). Not because the mum going to the shops wants to do 0-60, but to be consistent.

 

The Cinebench shows the performance of the chip for compute. Like "this 2 in 1 is fast and snappy for chrome, but won't be doing portable video edits while you snap on the go" compared to a MS Slated + Nvidia 1050ti dock keyboard "This 2 in 1 is fast and snappy for chrome, and you could even do some light 1080p video editing on the go if out at an expo/business meeting/sales talk". Like, these products do exist, and releasing a "poor/cheap" product does not mean you get to complain it's smaller than the competitor, so no one should say so.

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Someones opinion piece of their own opinion piece? Huh?

there is a problem of individuals/others passing off biased info here

 

if company a or i is going to make money it should be off its merits in that targeted area

 

plain and simple

 

 

[TechyBen]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

there is a problem of individuals/others passing off biased info here

 

if company a or i is going to make money it should be off its merits in that targeted area

 

plain and simple

 

 

And how does Cinebench prevent that?

 

[pas008]

1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

And how does Cinebench prevent that?

 

if you read my comments before you would know

 

 

[Blademaster91]

52 minutes ago, pas008 said:

lakefield thats on their terms 5 cores or something like that coming out soon

 

but point is how is this information being gathered?

 

and yes amd marketing is just as bad but soon new bios? fix boost? hope so could give them another edge but quietly, which could become non existant if intel counters harder

or we need more rereviews like with the 7970 which hurt them bad

Intel and all their lakes is getting confusing, the hybrid chip is neat, more like an ARM chip with big cores for power and little ones for efficiency.

How their info is being gathered is what I'd want to see, it's probably as mentioned its a lot easier for Intel to gather info off laptops with all kinds of preinstalled junk, no idea why else they'd be passing off laptop data as a survey on desktops.

I'm just saying marketing can be bad for both, but i'm hoping the new bios really gives AMD a nice boost in performance, if all Intel has to answer with is a 14nm 10 core I think AMD is going to keep their edge over Intel.

[mr moose]

21 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Someones opinion piece of their own opinion piece? Huh?

From the article:

So they cherry picked and complained others were "cherry picking". No, the reviewers were being consistent. As said. You do a 0-60 in the 3 wheeled reliant, and the Porsche Electric Turbo (That's not what that word means Porsche Meme ). Not because the mum going to the shops wants to do 0-60, but to be consistent.

 

The Cinebench shows the performance of the chip for compute. Like "this 2 in 1 is fast and snappy for chrome, but won't be doing portable video edits while you snap on the go" compared to a MS Slated + Nvidia 1050ti dock keyboard "This 2 in 1 is fast and snappy for chrome, and you could even do some light 1080p video editing on the go if out at an expo/business meeting/sales talk". Like, these products do exist, and releasing a "poor/cheap" product does not mean you get to complain it's smaller than the competitor, so no one should say so.

Not sure what you are trying to say, you highlighted the issue that explains all the misunderstanding yet you want to continue as if it isn't real. 

 

I think the problem here is everyone is getting way too specific and particular.  You know marketing is always going to be loose, that doesn't mean the odd ultra-book they claim can do light video processing undermines their claims that 99% of mobile users don't do any video work. Nor does it change the fact that cinebench gets used too much on devices that users clearly have no intention of using.

 

 

[pas008]

19 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Intel and all their lakes is getting confusing, the hybrid chip is neat more like an ARM chip with big cores for power and little ones for efficiency.

How their info is being gathered is what I'd want to see, probably as mentioned its a lot easier for Intel to gather info off laptops with all kinds of preinstalled junk, no idea why else they'd be passing off laptop data as a survey on desktops.

I'm just saying marketing can be bad for both, but i'm hoping the new bios really gives AMD a nice boost in performance, if all Intel has to answer with is a 14nm 10 core I think AMD is going to keep their edge over Intel.

where are you getting them passing laptop data as desktop clearly they have 2 different slides for 2 different markets

like i said i believe you linked an article back in the day, but could have read it elsewhere on intel focusing more on notebook and server platform because of ryzen for time being but different ceo etc etc etc

 

and i hope amd does pin them against the wall, means you and i  get the better deal if we are in the market

 

and for the intel haters they arent going anywhere, too much money and too fricken good at what they do

but i do think ht and ime exposure needs to hit them in the jaw

z370 system connected to internet before windows install it was like my phone

do i have a problem with it no

but what other info is passed  on that?

 

info is info

like i said few times now i'd love for a few multitasking benches

[Master Disaster]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Not sure what you are trying to say, you highlighted the issue that explains all the misunderstanding yet you want to continue as if it isn't real. 

 

I think the problem here is everyone is getting way too specific and particular.  You know marketing is always going to be loose, that doesn't mean the odd ultra-book they claim can do light video processing undermines their claims that 99% of mobile users don't do any video work. Nor does it change the fact that cinebench gets used too much on devices that users clearly have no intention of using.

 

 

It also doesn't mean Cinebench has no value though. Synthetic benchmarks give users a number they can look at to indicate how the device is going perform and that's valuable, especially to people who don't follow tech and don't know what to expect from a Core I5 6547864SFTR (because that's how confusing Intel's naming convention has got).

 

Intel is trying to push away from Cinebench because AMD is starting to win, they didn't care about it for the last 10 years while they were winning.

[Lathlaer]

I am glad that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation to the whole "testing HEDT usage on notebooks and tablets" stuff.

[Master Disaster]

Just now, Lathlaer said:

I am glad that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation to the whole "testing HEDT usage on notebooks and tablets" stuff.

Yeah, out of everything that's what really pissed me off. Turns out it was a misunderstanding which is probably the best possible outcome.