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Parents Don't Like Phones At Schools

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37 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

If a parent pays for their child to go to a charter school, they should not also have to pay for the public schools as well (via taxes). I am not saying private schools should be funded by the government.

 

They have no way to separating that out. It just like here in Michigan schools being school of choice. Meaning you dont have to live within the districts borders to go to that school. BUT the school is only funded by tax payers of that district. 

 

39 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

also agree with defunding all colleges. At the very least, restricting federal student loans to STEM fields as well as the trades.

The reason student loans are out of control is because tuition is out of control. The reason tuition is out of control is because, by them being "Federal" loans they are guaranteed. Schools are just trying to take all the money from the government they can. If Federal loans didnt exist, then tuition would most likely be more affordable. I think restricting to STEM fields is not the answer. Each state is different in its needs. For example we have shit tons of skilled trades jobs and related jobs open here in Michigan with no one to fill them. 

 

As far as phones in school go. To me its a matter of safety. We have mass shootings in the US every other week. Some times those happen at schools. Would like it if the students could call for help. Its sad that I have to think this way, but we now have bullet proof back packs. WTF. Now in the UK on the other hand, I dont think they have these types of problems. But Id say as long as the students are not using them during class, then let them have the phones. If they are using them during class then take them and give it to them at the end of the day. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

That's essentially what I am saying.

 

If a parent pays for their child to go to a charter school, they should not also have to pay for the public schools as well (via taxes). I am not saying private schools should be funded by the government.

 

I also agree with defunding all colleges. At the very least, restricting federal student loans to STEM fields as well as the trades.

 

It makes zero sense for the public to lend money, so someone can get a worthless degree that guarantees that person will never be able to pay the loan back.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. All children have a right to an education, funded from taxes. If you choose to spend money on a private school for your child then that is your prerogative. You have made that choice as you can afford it. However, you still need to pay taxes to fund the public schools as you still have the option of sending your child there.

 

As far as the free university tuition goes. I would say that I really like the system in Scotland, where I live, for the most part. In Scotland, for Scottish domiciled students (been here as main residence for at least 3 years), and currently for EU nationals (although this might change with Brexit), a first degree is free. Tuition is entirely funded by the Scottish Government (our devolved one not the UK Government). We are then able to take student maintenance loans (amount dependent on parental income) which after we graduate and meet an income threshold, we pay back. 

 

Now the Scottish system isn't amazing. It does lead to a lot of people who to be quite honest have no business going to uni, choosing to do it anyway, but for the most part, it provides a more level playing field for a lot of students. I study at the University of St Andrews, the top Scottish University and 2nd in the UK, after only Cambridge. St Andrews is an expensive place to live and I live too far away to commute every day but because I don't pay thousands in tuition and can take a student loan (which I do wish was bigger to be honest as it leaves me about £3500 down at the end of the year), I am able to afford it. 

 

I think everywhere should have a similar system. I wouldn't be against a minor increase in taxes if it improved quality of life and equality.

 

As to your point of restricting loans to STEM fields and Trades, I disagree. I am an Astrophysics student so I do fall under STEM, but that doesn't mean that these are the only worthwhile fields. In my Scottish Higher exams (similar to English A-Levels), I took English, Maths, Chemistry, Physics and Music. All of these subjects are important. The STEM subjects are of course relevant to my degree, but and understanding of the English language and being able to use it is important in all jobs, degree or not. There are countless studies showing the benefits of music not only in social context but in academic context as well. All these subjects are important to society and they need teachers, those degrees need funding and not everyone who would make a brilliant teacher can afford to go to university without a loan, so no, I disagree with limiting loans to only STEM subjects. Tuition is far to expensive in a lot of places and that needs to change though.  


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"but how will you reach me in an emergency or how should i reach you in an emergency" is the first argument most kids give for why they need a phone.

but then they use it to play doodle jump in class or whatever they do. 

i dont know. i certainly whould want a way to reach my kid but at the same i couldnt want them distracted by their phone all the time. 

then again once they all get phones you dont want your kid to the weirdo. thats where most parents break.

 

in the end i think id give them a phone under the condition that i can install a gps tracker app and if i hear from the teachers that its a distraction then therell be some form of punishment. 

 

when i was a kid we barely had phones. like only the coolest kids had one. and back then you couldnt do much more than call and play snake maybe. in 8th or 9th grade phones started playing mp3 files and the coolest kids had those express music edition nokias with extra loud speakers. very cool on the school yard during breaks. but i wouldnt say we were very much distracted during classes. i think the most important thing was that we didnt have the internet in our pockets. so maybe automatic going to airplane mode during classes would be an idea.

 

in terms of value thats difficult. back then our phone were only worth 40-50 bucks at the most. but i also know how cruel kids can be and so the race to keep up with everyone else starts. 

 

so heres my idea make it part of the school equipment. the same phone for everyone supplied by the school. some very basic model. that way the school can also lock them down remotely during class and kids wont hate on other kids (same principal as behind school uniforms). obviously the very clear problems with that are staring me in the face aswell but in an ideal scenario that sounds like the best option to me.


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I am 100% with banning of cell phones. They were becoming popular when I was in highschool and in my senior year the first iPhone came out. Every phone was banned from class and if it rang or you where caught using one the teacher took it away where you would have to grab it from the principal after school. This to me is 100% fine as I felt no need to be in constant contact with my parents nor did they find that they need to be able to get ahold of me 100% of the time. My parents are also VERY far left and still would want me to be independent. In university I majored in Social Work and helped out as a guidance counselor for a high school. Alot of issues where ones created by having phones on in the classroom causing distractions where the students focus more on their online presence than learning in the class (note this is for classroom cell use only and not having the cellphone). 

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9 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

If a parent pays for their child to go to a charter school, they should not also have to pay for the public schools as well (via taxes). I am not saying private schools should be funded by the government.

You should have to pay unless you can get a majority of your community to say no to said estate tax portion (or however your county or state takes public school funding). 

9 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I also agree with defunding all colleges. At the very least, restricting federal student loans to STEM fields as well as the trades.

I've got a whole slew of things I would do to fix the tuition issues, but barring the degree choice is restrictive to freedom, so I won't agree. 

9 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

It makes zero sense for the public to lend money, so someone can get a worthless degree that guarantees that person will never be able to pay the loan back.

The problem with that is lack of jobs, not low worth of the degree. I would start an international program that allows students of certain fields to go abroad for a time. 


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16 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

That's essentially what I am saying.

 

If a parent pays for their child to go to a charter school, they should not also have to pay for the public schools as well (via taxes). I am not saying private schools should be funded by the government.

 

I also agree with defunding all colleges. At the very least, restricting federal student loans to STEM fields as well as the trades.

 

It makes zero sense for the public to lend money, so someone can get a worthless degree that guarantees that person will never be able to pay the loan back.

That discussion can become very philosophical. I believe that the population should benefit from equal opportunity. So public schools should receive funding from the taxpayers. You don’t want to have a situation where kids in private schools have better education than kids in public schools. That’s a recipe for inequality. Re: worthless degrees. I believe that University at the undergraduate level should be terminated. It’s a piss poor education and a fancy degree. I especially hate how University professors are more concerned about their research than their students. And students’ shortcomings are always blamed on themselves. You’ll get far better instructors in a Trades school than at University. But University at a graduate level makes all the sense in the world in terms of research and personal development. Third, most students get useless degrees because they don’t know the job market before going to College. And student councillors push hard for University degrees. And I’m not talking about your fringe degrees which often get mocked at by right wing people. That’s a minority case. I mean, who’s gonna be smart enough to pick a Geomatics degree? Nobody cares. Nobody knows. And yet there’s a massive shortage of Geomatics people in Europe. Meanwhile, we have too many Engineering and Business graduates. 

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I have a 3 months old baby at home, I'm in IT and my girlfriend is a psychology teacher in college. That's going to be a rough ride to keep her away from screens but that's our plan. I'm Sorry, but I don't see any real meaningful reasons to hand her a smartphone when she will be going to school. If she needs to call us, she'll just go to the reception desk and the school will find a way to reach us, you know, like we used to do 20 years ago. "but if...", she's going to be on the school bus from and to home. Snapchat and texting are not part of the curriculum.


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On 9/3/2019 at 4:04 PM, ARikozuM said:

You should have to pay unless you can get a majority of your community to say no to said estate tax portion (or however your county or state takes public school funding). 

I've got a whole slew of things I would do to fix the tuition issues, but barring the degree choice is restrictive to freedom, so I won't agree. 

The problem with that is lack of jobs, not low worth of the degree. I would start an international program that allows students of certain fields to go abroad for a time. 

The reason for the lack of jobs is a lack of demand, and the reason for that is a lack of value (as set by the market) in whatever good or service is produced.

 

The US taxpayer should not be responsible for someone who got a Masters Degree in Egyptology not being able to get a job and pay what they owe. Either plan your career properly or bite the bullet and do something profitable that isn't your dream job. Use the money from that profitable thing to find your way to doing your dream job.

 

Hell, I didn't plan as well as I could have, and I'm paying for it. I don't expect anyone to pay off (or forgive) my student loan just because I didn't realize that certifications mean more in the IT world than a degree does. That is my mistake, and I am 100% responsible for paying it off. Otherwise I wouldn't learn my lesson, which is to plan more thoroughly and know what I am getting myself into. Luckily I only got an Associates degree, so I'm not in the hole for that much money.

 

Life has consequences, that often cannot be avoided. That in and of itself is an education people need to receive in one way or another.

 

Please note: I am specifically talking about federal student loans. Not private student loans.

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11 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

he reason for the lack of jobs is a lack of demand, and the reason for that is a lack of value (as set by the market) in whatever good or service is produced.

Not always. I see tons of HR jobs, which I have a degree for, but I dont have any experience, so I cant even get an interview. Ive gotten to the point that Ive stop applying, as its just a waste of my time. 

 

12 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The US taxpayer should not be responsible for someone who got a Masters Degree in Egyptology not being able to get a job and pay what they owe

Legally speaking the person who got the degree is required to pay the money back with interest. These are FEDERAL loans, meaning if you become delinquent on them like my sister did, they take your tax return money. On top of that you LEGAL CAN NOT collect social security if you have outstanding loans. So its not like the borrower has no punishment for not paying. OH and Federal loans dont get taken out with Bankruptcy, so there is literally no way out of them. 

 

But to be honest. I do agree that the Federal Government should not loan out the money. Why? Because colleges see it as free money for them. That's why tuition is as high as it is. Because Federal Loans are guaranteed money for them. The Government should just stop loaning out the money, then tuition will have to drop, because the schools will see lower enrollment numbers. 

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11 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Not always. I see tons of HR jobs, which I have a degree for, but I dont have any experience, so I cant even get an interview. Ive gotten to the point that Ive stop applying, as its just a waste of my time. 

 

Legally speaking the person who got the degree is required to pay the money back with interest. These are FEDERAL loans, meaning if you become delinquent on them like my sister did, they take your tax return money. On top of that you LEGAL CAN NOT collect social security if you have outstanding loans. So its not like the borrower has no punishment for not paying. OH and Federal loans dont get taken out with Bankruptcy, so there is literally no way out of them. 

 

But to be honest. I do agree that the Federal Government should not loan out the money. Why? Because colleges see it as free money for them. That's why tuition is as high as it is. Because Federal Loans are guaranteed money for them. The Government should just stop loaning out the money, then tuition will have to drop, because the schools will see lower enrollment numbers. 

Oh I'm well aware of a lot of the problems with the "need experience for entry level job" paradox. I live in a state with more Federal jobs than any other, and you'll see IT jobs demanding 10 years experience regarding things that have only existed for 7 years. It absolutely is something that needs to be fixed, however I do not have a solution in mind.

 

Also, I take a dim view of HR because I've never worked at place with HR people that weren't obnoxious parasites that didn't deserve to be payed even half of what they were paid. Admittedly the HR person at my current employer is saddled with a few other responsibilities (which she is also incompetent at), such as keeping track of certain paperwork, opening the front door for people (although that is under debate because of her interactions with another woman whom she does not like), not losing paperwork, etc. She fails at much of this, and I am unaware of a single person in the building who does not despise her.

 

I am simply speaking to the idea that the federal government should only back student loans for jobs that benefit society in a measurable way, and have a history of providing a career that results in decent amounts of prosperity and financial success. So STEM and trade jobs (welding, wood working, masonry, carpentry, plumbing, just to name a few).

 

I am also speaking out because I stand against those who are demanding student loan forgiveness because (and I hate to use a meme in serious discussion) they got a degree in Lesbian Dance Theory, and now cannot find gainful employment.

 

Although, I would make one caveat, I would support a movement to provide a means for forgiving such debt, provided that the applicant for forgiveness could show a decent attempt at getting a career going in their original field, and then apply for another loan in a STEM field or trade job field, and then they agree to pay off the second loan via normal means (normal options for paying off a student loan, including income based repayment etc.).

 

However, the first loan would only be forgiven once they completed the courses for the second loan, and begun making payments. Also obligatory academic probation of some sort for the duration of said courses.

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1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

am simply speaking to the idea that the federal government should only back student loans for jobs that benefit society in a measurable way, and have a history of providing a career that results in decent amounts of prosperity and financial success. So STEM and trade jobs (welding, wood working, masonry, carpentry, plumbing, just to name a few).

The government shouldn't do any loans. Thats why tuition is high. Schools can literally charge what ever they want, knowing the government will pay for it. What will schools do when enrollment drops? Either close or lower pricing. Here in Michigan we got shit tons of skilled trade jobs. I kinda blame the baby boomers for this, they told use millennial's to not go in to skilled trades. Also they drove down all the wages. Now we have such an abundance but no one wants them. 

 

I actually have an associate in Computer Information systems. But I got that degree back in 08. When the economy went in to the shitter and IT people got laid off. Then when they started hiring again, they were wanting 5-10 years of experience for entry level jobs. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

am also speaking out because I stand against those who are demanding student loan forgiveness because (and I hate to use a meme in serious discussion) they got a degree in Lesbian Dance Theory, and now cannot find gainful employment.

I dont care if they forgive mine, Ill probably be dead before its paid off. I dont expect Ill ever be able to retire. So ill work till I die, and the government will get back what they can while Im still alive. Its not like they can expect a dead person to pay. 

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7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The government shouldn't do any loans. Thats why tuition is high. Schools can literally charge what ever they want, knowing the government will pay for it. What will schools do when enrollment drops? Either close or lower pricing. Here in Michigan we got shit tons of skilled trade jobs. I kinda blame the baby boomers for this, they told use millennial's to not go in to skilled trades. Also they drove down all the wages. Now we have such an abundance but no one wants them. 

 

I actually have an associate in Computer Information systems. But I got that degree back in 08. When the economy went in to the shitter and IT people got laid off. Then when they started hiring again, they were wanting 5-10 years of experience for entry level jobs. 

 

 

I dont care if they forgive mine, Ill probably be dead before its paid off. I dont expect Ill ever be able to retire. So ill work till I die, and the government will get back what they can while Im still alive. Its not like they can expect a dead person to pay. 

I agree to some extent, but I have no real issue with the government offering student loans for degree programs that objectively benefit society. Engineers, scientists, trades workers, all of these things are beneficial to society.

 

Art history degrees, not so much.

 

I would also add that I would like to see a substantial reduction in overseas military forces (let the world fend for itself, they'll be asking for us back in a few years), and increase in space exploration funding. We need to be charging forward on things like asteroid mining, space station building, etc. And for all of that, we're going to need an educated and skilled labor force. Look at what the space race did for our economy, and look at how much it actually cost us (not all that much really)

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when i was taking precalc one of the school supplies was a graphing calculator and the recommended one was the TI84 so i told my parents to buy that and they said ok. but later they came back with an alternative calculator since it was cheaper it was some casio calculator. and during class the teacher was teaching using a TI 84 and ofc the instructions she was giving on how to operate the TI 84 didnt translate well to the calculator i had. she didnt know how to operate it either and the manual for that calculator was terrible. so instead i was allowed to use a graphing calculator app on my phone which was much more intuitive even during tests as long as i had my phone flat on my test. though i admit that might have given me an advantage as the phone app calculator was much more versatile than the TI 84 imo

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Don't know if this was posted or not, I did not read all 4 pages of reply's.. the simplest solution, if parents don't want their kids to use their cell phones in school.. PARENTS DON"T LET YOUR KIDS LEAVE THE HOUSE WITH THE DAMN CELL PHONE!

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