Best language for backend web dev

[wasab]

I'm taking a course this semester called cloud computing which is more or less just another name for full stack web development. My instructor was like you get to pick whatever language you want to use. 

 

I would like to know what's the best language and framworks to use for server side? I really dont wanna use java spring.  Too heavy and too time consuming compare to scripting langauges. 

 

That leaves pretty much just python using flask or node.js with JavaScript. 

 

Which of the two is the best in your opinion? I have absolutely no experience in web dev so I would like to stick to one(will be self teaching with Google) throughout the entire course because projects are broken into mile stones and cumulative. If I switch a langauge, I may need to scrape it all and redo the entire thing. 

 

Tools I will be using include openstack, Apache, mongodb, Ubuntu server, ect if that makes any difference. 

[bowrilla]

Mostly a question of preference. Though Javascript has an edge here for the latest web technologies usually since they're mostly implemented in JS first and Python and Ruby come later. It's not a major thing though especially when looking at production-level software.

[wasab]

16 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Mostly a question of preference. Though Javascript has an edge here for the latest web technologies usually since they're mostly implemented in JS first and Python and Ruby come later. It's not a major thing though especially when looking at production-level software.

Is one faster to code and deploy compare to the other? I heard from my school alumni that projects in this class is easily a 30 hour a week time sink

 

I really want to pick something that's gonna make my life easier. 

[bowrilla]

3 hours ago, wasab said:

Is one faster to code and deploy compare to the other? I heard from my school alumni that projects in this class is easily a 30 hour a week time sink

 

I really want to pick something that's gonna make my life easier. 

Not really a big difference once you wrapped your head around it. Javascript differs heavily from version to version in some parts (callback of hell vs await vs async). Python uses indentation as syntax. Go with the language you like the best. Though I have to say - if there'll be a frontend course coming at you in the foreseeable future I'd definitely go with node.js/javascript since you just stick with one language which is a plus if you plan to get better at it.

[wasab]

11 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Not really a big difference once you wrapped your head around it. Javascript differs heavily from version to version in some parts (callback of hell vs await vs async). Python uses indentation as syntax. Go with the language you like the best. Though I have to say - if there'll be a frontend course coming at you in the foreseeable future I'd definitely go with node.js/javascript since you just stick with one language which is a plus if you plan to get better at it.

JavaScript it is then. I will be doing both front end and back end. The project is usually a Twitter/Facebook clone. Although last semester, it was a clone of stackoverflow. 

[Franck]

When i think of cloud i think of Azure. Azure have 4 main language supports 

- C#

- F#

- PowerShell

- Python

 

Which with experience they are all 4 great for this. I do believe there is or there will be java support.

 

I have 2 homemade clouds

- C++ with 2 servers each have 18 cores 3.2 ghz @ 500 mhz a nodes for 108 nodes so 216 nodes total

- C# with small farm of ~180 computers (2-4 and 6 cores) @ 300 mhz a node for about 8,300 nodes totals

[HarryNyquist]

I mean hell, I know people """don't use it""" anymore, but PHP exists and is pretty damn good.

[wasab]

24 minutes ago, Franck said:

When i think of cloud i think of Azure. 

Openstack is good enough. 

 

[bowrilla]

1 hour ago, Franck said:

When i think of cloud i think of Azure. Azure have 4 main language supports 

- C#

- F#

- PowerShell

- Python

 

Which with experience they are all 4 great for this. I do believe there is or there will be java support.

 

I have 2 homemade clouds

- C++ with 2 servers each have 18 cores 3.2 ghz @ 500 mhz a nodes for 108 nodes so 216 nodes total

- C# with small farm of ~180 computers (2-4 and 6 cores) @ 300 mhz a node for about 8,300 nodes totals

Azure also supports node.js/javascript. Not saying those languages aren't good or powerful choices. But for a beginner who also has to get into frontend development learning two languages in parallel is not really a clever choice. You can also just run your node.js app on a local docker machine or a rented VM - that's also a cloud solution. The OP is not interested in using Java along with Spring so Azure's Java support is not really a point here. Besides, the OP is going to use OpenStack so Azure is pretty irrelevant here. Your answer sort of misses the point here. It's sort of like answering the question for a light 2 person tent for casual backcountry hiking in the summer with recommending expedition style tents that a used at Mount Everest basecamps: sure, these are viable and potentially powerful options but not what was asked for.

 

1 hour ago, HarryNyquist said:

I mean hell, I know people """don't use it""" anymore, but PHP exists and is pretty damn good.

Because PHP is a pretty screwed up quirky language that is mostly used due to legacy. PHP grew as a language over more than 2 decades and the structure and syntax shows. It works for sure, but there are more modern options here. 

[Franck]

16 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

the OP is going to use OpenStack so Azure is pretty irrelevant here

Ah i see i haven't mentioned i was answering the first question :

16 hours ago, wasab said:

I would like to know what's the best language and framworks to use for server side?

Since OpenStack is forcing Python it made clear this was a separate context question to me.

 

my bad for not clearing that up.

[wasab]

3 minutes ago, Franck said:

Ah i see i haven't mentioned i was answering the first question :

Since OpenStack is forcing Python it made clear this was a separate context question to me.

 

my bad for not clearing that up.

I'm actually running my website using Apache server which runs on top of Ubuntu server which runs on top of a hypervisor aka a docker inside the openstack. Programming lanaguge choice won't be an issue. 

[Franck]

21 minutes ago, wasab said:

I'm actually running my website using Apache server which runs on top of Ubuntu server which runs on top of a hypervisor aka a docker inside the openstack. Programming lanaguge choice won't be an issue. 

Ah so you are not running cloud for typical nodes and balancing that run bare code or services. This is just the VM hosting portion. Impressive how you can have that many layers.

 

Out of curiosity. Is this setup a class requirement ? if not, what are the reasons you have not simply chosen to load balance many apache instances and get rid of all these extra layers ?

[wasab]

7 minutes ago, Franck said:

Ah so you are not running cloud for typical nodes and balancing that run bare code or services. This is just the VM hosting portion. Impressive how you can have that many layers.

 

Out of curiosity. Is this setup a class requirement ? if not, what are the reasons you have not simply chosen to load balance many apache instances and get rid of all these extra layers ?

Ah, yes. 

At least that's what's on the instruction pdf. 

Besides, virtualized server and hypervisor is a standard industry practice. 

[Franck]

14 minutes ago, wasab said:

Besides, virtualized server and hypervisor is a standard industry practice

Yes indeed. When i need to add new nodes i just clone a VM in hypervisor and start it and automatically the Apache/IIS or Service host automatically added to the cloud and i have extra power added in less than 5 minutes. VM made things like that sooo easy over what we used to do in the 90's

[Dat Guy]

19 hours ago, wasab said:

My instructor was like you get to pick whatever language you want to use. 

Write in C.

[wasab]

1 hour ago, Dat Guy said:

Write in C.

no

[Dat Guy]

44 minutes ago, wasab said:

no

yes

[scotartt]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:55 AM, wasab said:

I'm actually running my website using Apache server which runs on top of Ubuntu server which runs on top of a hypervisor aka a docker inside the openstack. Programming lanaguge choice won't be an issue. 

If you're running inside a Docker container blow away everything but the kernel and the app server infra that runs the service. E.g. Alpine Linux and Node JS. Don't bother with the Ubuntu and Apache -- its all a waste of memory and CPU. Run multiple docker containers (e.g. one for the database, one for the Node JS, one to host the front end) and use a another docker container to route the ingress traffic to the right end point.

 

That's the beginning point of a "cloud native" architecture. Forget about monolithic unwieldy multilayer "servers".