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Jito463

Watch it, you GIMP - Glimpse project founded to avoid branding that some find offensive

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8 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

How does that small change negatively affect you in even the slightest?

That small change is the thing. They get through one small change, they move to another and then another just because they feel a little bit offended and when you put that part of the modern behavior and count in that in the past many words have had offensive meanings and even worse, many words will have offensive meaning in the future and the worst that there are so many words that have some offensive meaning in some small geographical area or some very exclusive human group. And the worst part is the proportions; People are offended because a software has been called GIMP for over 20 years? Like that's the most important thing they can find to be publicly offended by and someone should make it their priority to do something about it? Like yeah, you can talk about it but really going that far as starting to port a whole program just to change it's name to be less "offending" when the developers have disagreed to change the name of the program (like they must have WAY too much time in their hands, they could probably do something actually worth of the time and be productive with it also).

 

"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behaviour." ~Robert Skinner (heard from John Cleese talking about political correctness)

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29 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

That small change is the thing. They get through one small change, they move to another and then another just because they feel a little bit offended and when you put that part of the modern behavior and count in that in the past many words have had offensive meanings and even worse, many words will have offensive meaning in the future and the worst that there are so many words that have some offensive meaning in some small geographical area or some very exclusive human group. And the worst part is the proportions; People are offended because a software has been called GIMP for over 20 years? Like that's the most important thing they can find to be publicly offended by and someone should make it their priority to do something about it? Like yeah, you can talk about it but really going that far as starting to port a whole program just to change it's name to be less "offending" when the developers have disagreed to change the name of the program (like they must have WAY too much time in their hands, they could probably do something actually worth of the time and be productive with it also).

 

"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behaviour." ~Robert Skinner (heard from John Cleese talking about political correctness)

Thank you for a slippery slope fallacy. 9_9

 

It's not like GIMP is going anywhere. Complaining is ridiculous. A new branch doesn't hurt you or anyone else.


Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response!

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37 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

That small change is the thing. They get through one small change, they move to another and then another just because they feel a little bit offended and when you put that part of the modern behavior and count in that in the past many words have had offensive meanings and even worse, many words will have offensive meaning in the future and the worst that there are so many words that have some offensive meaning in some small geographical area or some very exclusive human group. And the worst part is the proportions; People are offended because a software has been called GIMP for over 20 years? Like that's the most important thing they can find to be publicly offended by and someone should make it their priority to do something about it? Like yeah, you can talk about it but really going that far as starting to port a whole program just to change it's name to be less "offending" when the developers have disagreed to change the name of the program (like they must have WAY too much time in their hands, they could probably do something actually worth of the time and be productive with it also).

 

"If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behaviour." ~Robert Skinner (heard from John Cleese talking about political correctness)

 

Apart form being a slippery slope argument, this is a horse and cart problem, everyone thinks the goal is to avoid offending people.  It is not, the goal is to avoid the name deterring people from using the product because to them it is offensive. 

 

There is a very distinct difference in the approach, one is protecting the product the other is protecting the people.   It does not seem as though the community cares about people, but they do care that their product could be more widely used if it had a different name.    Which is actually much more mature way to deal with the situation given it hasn't arisen from any form of intentional social attack or lobby group.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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9 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Someone calling software "gimped" because it lacks features is a direct extension of people calling someone "gimped" because they have a limp, or are disabled, etc.

well right, its no longer used as a slur. Its not being used to attack a certain demographic of people.

 

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5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

well right, its no longer used as a slur. Its not being used to attack a certain demographic of people.

 

Who said it was no longer being used? 

 

regardless, it is a word that people use to denigrate others, a word that people use to denigrate products and a word that has generally a negative connotation that is maybe being used less in society. Can you blame them for not wanting that kind of association with their product?

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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20 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Apart form being a slippery slope argument, this is a horse and cart problem, everyone thinks the goal is to avoid offending people.  It is not, the goal is to avoid the name deterring people from using the product because to them it is offensive. 

 

There is a very distinct difference in the approach, one is protecting the product the other is protecting the people.   It does not seem as though the community cares about people, but they do care that their product could be more widely used if it had a different name.    Which is actually much more mature way to deal with the situation given it hasn't arisen from any form of intentional social attack or lobby group.

The software has been named GIMP for years and no one really seemed to take offense to it until recently? That sure seems to be the goal, fork the product and see if people aren't offended by Glimpse instead.

And no I think the community cares, its just people should find more important things to do than about than whining about the acronym of an open source image editor.  I also doubt a name change alone would really cause much more widespread use, any professional is going to be using something more well known such as Photoshop because it's what they're more familiar with.

29 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Thank you for a slippery slope fallacy. 9_9

 

It's not like GIMP is going anywhere. Complaining is ridiculous. A new branch doesn't hurt you or anyone else.

Right and you completely ignore their point and go back to the argument of "it doesn't hurt you so just stop complaining".

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1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

The software has been named GIMP for years and no one really seemed to take offense to it until recently? That sure seems to be the goal, fork the product and see if people aren't offended by Glimpse instead.

How do you know it has only been a recent thing and there has been an ongoing question of uptake due to the name?

 

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

And no I think the community cares, its just people should find more important things to do than about than whining about the acronym of an open source image editor.  I also doubt a name change alone would really cause much more widespread use, any professional is going to be using something more well known such as Photoshop because it's what they're more familiar with.

Companies invest hundreds of thousands of dollars researching names,  a name can make or break a product.   There is no doubt in my mind that the name has more effect on how many people look at it than you realize.

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

yes

then indeed this is what is wrong with the world,  someone wants to take reasonable steps to look after their product (without effecting anything else I might add) and people go around blaming them of social dishonesty.    


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

The software has been named GIMP for years and no one really seemed to take offense to it until recently?

Your own ignorance is not a defense. Gimp has always had a negative connotation, and has always made using the software awkward. Imagine if Microsoft Office was named Dildo. Hopefully, you can see why that might be a little harder to promote. I'm tired of people thinking of the rapist from Pulp Fiction when I talk about using GIMP.

 

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Right and you completely ignore their point and go back to the argument of "it doesn't hurt you so just stop complaining".

I didn't ignore his point. I exposed it as a logical fallacy. The name isn't even being changed, that's what so many people don't seem to get. This is just a duplicate project with a different name. It's like getting angry that a car comes in both black and white models, because you think it should only be available in black.

 

And for the record, I pointed out that it doesn't hurt ANYONE. There's no downside.


Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response!

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These days anything can be found offensive.


#MuricaParrotGang

 

 

 

 

All of my image memes are made with GIMP.

 

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4 hours ago, FezBoy said:

Hah, I love the irony in someone forking the fork just to rename it back to GIMP ?


Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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18 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Who is “we” in your context? If you mean “we” the OSS community? No... the insult “gimp” entered common language in the 1920’s. 

Why do you think I’m offended by this, simply because I corrected your “joke” with factual information?

 

I do always find it humorous when people who claim to be against getting offended... well... act offended when offered counterpoint information. 

 

Does it bother you that I posted another

definition that gives credibility to the people who want to fork the program?

Wasn't directed towards you, was intended as a general statement. I doesn't bother me. :)


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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

How do you know it has only been a recent thing and there has been an ongoing question of uptake due to the name?

 

Companies invest hundreds of thousands of dollars researching names,  a name can make or break a product.   There is no doubt in my mind that the name has more effect on how many people look at it than you realize.

 

 

I agree with you, we don't know if it was recent or something ongoing, but the program being an open source project people would have been free to fork their own version with whatever name they like. Maybe the name has an effect, I don't know how common the term is as an insult, maybe an even better reason to change it then? It doesn't bother me if they decide to change the name to "glimpse"  certainly if a new naming scheme increases the popularity.

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23 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I agree with you, we don't know if it was recent or something ongoing, but the program being an open source project people would have been free to fork their own version with whatever name they like.

Which is what they have done.   I don't think because it wasn't done earlier that it means the problem is new, it may have taken the better part of a decade to get enough people interested in the fork to make it possible.  

 

23 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Maybe the name has an effect, I don't know how common the term is as an insult, maybe an even better reason to change it then? It doesn't bother me if they decide to change the name to "glimpse"  certainly if a new naming scheme increases the popularity.

 

It's fairly common in my generation,  but more so for insulting groups (like organizations) rather than individual people.  I think that might be why it is so popular as in insult to products or services in tech like gameworks and anything MS.  

 

Personally I think the name gimp is cool, but then being an Autistic I can separate G.I.M.P from a gimp, just like I can use the word retard grammatically without thinking about insulting people with intellectual conditions.   I also understand the desire to fork it and release something with a different name.  It will be interesting to see if they are identical products and how well the product with the different name does.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 8/29/2019 at 10:46 PM, Vode said:

I can understand women talking about this topic and raising the alarm, but not men.

Not men.  Males perhaps, but not men.

23 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Yes, slavery was outlawed 150 years ago. That doesn't mean that we aren't still to this day dealing with the fallout of slavery. Sure, no African American today was ever legally enslaved, nor is there anyone alive today that lived through legal slavery, but the extension of slavery, which is the systemic racism against black people, was very much part of the status quo even as far as 50 years ago.

 

So while slavery itself is a very old issue, we're still dealing with the fallout of that. Sweeping it under the rug ignores all of the consequences that black Americans still have to deal with on a daily basis.

To be fair, most people don't even have a correct concept of what "Vikings" actually were.

The difference between that and this is that people in the US still deal with racism, and people alive today lived through black segregation, etc.

There is no "systemic racism" in this day and age.  In fact, racism itself is pretty much dead, it's only the race baiters (e.g. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson) who keep it alive in the media.  It's their bread and butter, so they have to keep it going or they'll stop getting attention.  If it weren't for the media constantly hyping the narrative that racism is still an issue, they - and the the issue as a whole - would just dry up and go away.  I'm not saying racists don't exist, but the problem is nowhere near as extensive as most have been led to believe.

 

Freeman was right when he said we should just stop talking about it.  If only he'd take his own advice.

 

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11 hours ago, mr moose said:

someone wants to take reasonable steps to look after their product

Its not reasonable, thats the problem.

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4 hours ago, poochyena said:

Its not reasonable, thats the problem.

How is it not reasonable to fork a program and create a new version that effects literally no one except the people who choose to work on it?

 

How is it unreasonable to do what the community wants you to in such a situation?


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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10 hours ago, JustWantTech said:

Wait. How many people knows the word "gimp" and get offended by it?

It gets used quite often to denigrate gameworks (gimpworks) and is used a fair bit to describe something that has been damaged or impaired (usually on purpose).

 

It even gets used by journalists a fair bit when writing articles about new tech that has what seems like intentional issues.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Cool I don't care. People have better things to do with there time than to argue over the name of a fork of a popular thing. at the end of the day it is a software. If they don't change the software than I can't be bothered to care.


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-= Locked =-

 

This has derailed and found its end.


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