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Spotify fails to properly licence Eminem.

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Maybe I should rephrase...

 

The mass manufactured shit that's played 5 times a day on most commercial radio stations is shite. In 12 months no-one plays it as the next wave of "this years top hits" has been shovelled out. The odd new song comes out that I like but it quickly ends up last years music and you never hear it played.

"Mass manufactured" music, as you put it, still isn't bad. Overplayed? Yes, anything popular is overplayed. But that can and does happen with lots of good music.

 

And that's why I don't listen to the radio - they play the same 15 songs over and over again, and it gets annoying. Even if I happen to love 6 of those 15 songs.

 

That's why we have services like Spotify (lol..., depending on whether these accusations are accurate) where you can listen to whatever you want, whenever you want.

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Posted
12 hours ago, nick name said:

That actually happens a lot.  Company that owns the rights seeing another company successfully selling what the first company owns will let it continue long enough to make it more profitable to sue.  

That's also a great way to lose the ability to sue. Knowingly allowing a third party to violate your intellectual property rights with the intention of driving up the amount they owe is generally frowned upon.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

That's also a great way to lose the ability to sue. Knowingly allowing a third party to violate your intellectual property rights with the intention of driving up the amount they owe is generally frowned upon.

Indeed - in such cases, the judge may dismiss the suit entirely - but probably more likely, is that the judge would limit damages and awards to the perceived value at the time they found out (with maybe some leeway to account for potential time to launch a lawsuit). If that leeway extends too far, it's clear that the owner of the copyright was waiting to sue to make more money.

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Posted
17 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I wouldn't call someone who pirates music a consumer tbh. 

Even if they purchased the music in the first place and gave it to their friends?

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Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Even if they purchased the music in the first place and gave it to their friends?

You would be a consumer (the purchaser) - your friends would not.

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Posted
18 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

"school"? Hah!

 

This debate comes up so many time and the old tropes just never die no matter how many facts you throw at them.

Have a read of this, i have provided all the links to the evidence.

 

 

 

Piracy does take revenue away from the music industry,  and to pretend it doesn't is just sticking your head in the sand.

There's a reason Piracy exists. When it was just Netflix and Blockbuster movie piracy say an all time low. Then as Netflix competitors started popping up making their platforms exclusive piracy has been rising. Bands have released albums at pay what you want prices. So you technically can download the album for free. Yet since the album was actually good they made more money then they would have originally. Simply looking at it so zoomed it at sale for sale and every song stolen is money lost is dumb. You cannot for certain say if Bob pirated the music they lost $5. What if Bob really like them and decided to purchase to support the artist as he wants more music. Did they make $0 because he stole one copy and bought another? Now what if Bob stole a song and showed his friends who later went out and bought 6 copies total. Without Bob pirating one song they would of made less money. Piracy is not a simple debate but to be closed minded only hurts the consumers. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You would be a consumer (the purchaser) - your friends would not.

Correct some pirated like to share content and will buy the Blu-Ray or CDs of the album to do so

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

Correct some pirated like to share content and will buy the Blu-Ray or CDs of the album to do so

That's how most Blu-Ray rips end up online. Someone buys the Blu-Ray, rips it, uploads it.

 

They're still pirates of course - and legally speaking, it's actually a larger crime to distribute the copyrighted content (by "uploading" it) than it is to simply download the copyrighted content.

 

I'm not going to claim I've never pirated stuff - but I still acknowledge that most reasons for pirating are still wrong. We do it because it's easy, for the most part.

 

Note: There are always exceptions to the above, such as content that is literally not available anymore (abandonware games, etc), things that are wildly too expensive compared to the economy you live in (Eg: The average income in your country is $50 a month, and a video game costs $75), etc.

 

But for someone that lives in the US, UK, AUS, CAN, Western Europe, etc - the vast majority of us pirate because we can, and because we want to.

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16 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

There's a reason Piracy exists. When it was just Netflix and Blockbuster movie piracy say an all time low. Then as Netflix competitors started popping up making their platforms exclusive piracy has been rising. Bands have released albums at pay what you want prices. So you technically can download the album for free. Yet since the album was actually good they made more money then they would have originally. Simply looking at it so zoomed it at sale for sale and every song stolen is money lost is dumb. You cannot for certain say if Bob pirated the music they lost $5. What if Bob really like them and decided to purchase to support the artist as he wants more music. Did they make $0 because he stole one copy and bought another? Now what if Bob stole a song and showed his friends who later went out and bought 6 copies total. Without Bob pirating one song they would of made less money. Piracy is not a simple debate but to be closed minded only hurts the consumers. 

Honestly them losing money or not isn't even relevant in my mind. They put time and effort into creating their songs and for someone to say they shouldn't have to pay is just disrespectful to the artist. Why should they get to experience someone else's hard work for free when others have to pay for it? Not to mention it is illegal regardless.

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28 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Even if they purchased the music in the first place and gave it to their friends?

It doesn't matter tbh. What they are doing has nothing to do with being a consumer at that point so they aren't hurting anyone from being a consumer but rather a pirater. 

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20 hours ago, mr moose said:

-snip-

Piracy does take revenue away from the music industry,  and to pretend it doesn't is just sticking your head in the sand.

 

So then why, with piracy at an all time high, does the RIAA claim they are making more money now than ever before if piracy hurts them so much?

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180323/14512839491/riaa-reports-music-industry-is-making-all-money-just-as-new-study-says-piracy-has-never-been-more-widespread.shtml

Additionally, why do they get to be entitled to make money for 110 years + life  and keep getting to extend that copyright on older works as they get closer to expiration? I wish I was a company like that and could make infinite money for all eternity by milking old works from creators who are no longer alive because I stole it from the public domain and claimed a "right" that I get to keep extending for longer and longer periods of time :)

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2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

So then why, with piracy at an all time high, does the RIAA claim they are making more money now than ever before if piracy hurts them so much?

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180323/14512839491/riaa-reports-music-industry-is-making-all-money-just-as-new-study-says-piracy-has-never-been-more-widespread.shtml

More people, more potential consumers. Even if they are losing money to piracy, that doesn't necessarily mean they're making less overall money, given the increases in their consumer base, globalization (meaning it's easier to sell an Album to literally anyone), new platforms like Digital Stores (iTunes), Streaming platforms, etc - all increase potential profit.

 

Even if it's true that they are making more money, does that make it okay to pirate their content?

2 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Additionally, why do they get to be entitled to make money for 110 years + life  and keep getting to extend that copyright on older works as they get closer to expiration? I wish I was a company like that and could make infinite money for all eternity by milking old works from creators who are no longer alive because I stole it from the public domain and claimed a "right" that I get to keep extending for longer and longer periods of time :)

This is unrelated to piracy - at least, not directly. You should lobby your government representative to change the copyright laws.

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Just now, dalekphalm said:

More people, more potential consumers. Even if they are losing money to piracy, that doesn't necessarily mean they're making less overall money, given the increases in their consumer base, globalization (meaning it's easier to sell an Album to literally anyone), new platforms like Digital Stores (iTunes), Streaming platforms, etc - all increase potential profit.

 

Even if it's true that they are making more money, does that make it okay to pirate their content?

This is unrelated to piracy - at least, not directly. You should lobby your government representative to change the copyright laws.

And if the RIAA had their way we wouldn't have any of those services to begin with because they view them as disruptions and therefor "bad" until, of course, that "bad" starts making them more money. As for "does it make it okay" it all depends on who you ask because it's more than just right or wrong. There are a lot of artists, especially new and upcoming ones, who put their music out there for free to get exposure and realize that they can make money in a lot of new and better ways while connecting and growing their fanbase. Not always the same for everyone but there are many good examples of what some would deem piracy helping to grow new artists and bringing new people to old artists. There was an article not too long ago where Led Zeppelin talked about how piracy helped bring them new and younger fans and grow in popularity because of it, does their growth make piracy evil still?

Funny, I wish a random citizen lobbying the government did anything but get an auto generated response. Meanwhile the RIAA/MPAA/etc. literally helped write most of the copyright laws we have on the books today and continue to bribe... I mean "contribute" to campaigns. In the current political landscape, which I won't delve into, it's basically impossible for someone to do much of anything outside of local government and even that's iffy a lot of times. I tried, many times, to write against these changes and every time I got a "you don't understand" auto generated bullcrap letter from my representative.

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3 minutes ago, Lurick said:

And if the RIAA had their way we wouldn't have any of those services to begin with because they view them as disruptions and therefor "bad" until, of course, that "bad" starts making them more money.

I never claimed the RIAA had the best interests of the consumer at heart - they don't. That doesn't validate piracy as being an option.

Quote

As for "does it make it okay" it all depends on who you ask because it's more than just right or wrong. There are a lot of artists, especially new and upcoming ones, who put their music out there for free to get exposure and realize that they can make money in a lot of new and better ways while connecting and growing their fanbase.

That is *not* piracy. Those artists make that choice - and it's a perfectly legitimate choice. However, when someone decides their music is worth money, and you disagree, the correct response is to simply do without said music rather than pirate it.

Quote

Not always the same for everyone but there are many good examples of what some would deem piracy helping to grow new artists and bringing new people to old artists. There was an article not too long ago where Led Zeppelin talked about how piracy helped bring them new and younger fans and grow in popularity because of it, does their growth make piracy evil still?

I also never said piracy was "evil" - that's a stretch (though it can be evil in some situations). It can sometimes have good benefits. That doesn't mean it's morally a good thing to take music against the wishes of the artist who has placed a price on it. Even if sometimes there are beneficial side effects.

Quote

Funny, I wish a random citizen lobbying the government did anything but get an auto generated response. Meanwhile the RIAA/MPAA/etc. literally helped write most of the copyright laws we have on the books today and continue to bribe... I mean "contribute" to campaigns. In the current political landscape, which I won't delve into, it's basically impossible for someone to do much of anything outside of local government and even that's iffy a lot of times. I tried, many times, to write against these changes and every time I got a "you don't understand" auto generated bullcrap letter from my representative.

That's because the RIAA has power. If you want to change the status quo, you need to organize into a large group, where many individuals can contact many government members - and additionally, you can pool your money together and form an actual lobby group.

 

That's how the RIAA does it.

 

Is that realistic? Maybe not. Mostly because you're unlikely to actually get enough people together to make it work.

 

Either way, piracy isn't the answer. Vote with your wallet.

 

But let's be realistic here - music has never been cheaper than it is today. New indie artists have so many options, including YouTube, to break out and gain a following. You can also stream music for free on platforms like YouTube or Spotify, and all you have to do is watch a bit of advertising. Or you can buy digital music DRM free for very affordable rates ($1 per song is reasonable enough).

 

Is the music industry perfect? Hells no. But it's probably the best it's ever been in terms of for the consumer. Still massive room for improvement though.

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2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly them losing money or not isn't even relevant in my mind. They put time and effort into creating their songs and for someone to say they shouldn't have to pay is just disrespectful to the artist. Why should they get to experience someone else's hard work for free when others have to pay for it? Not to mention it is illegal regardless.

Okay but you also have to see why and what people are pirating. If I release all my music on my own streaming platform only for North America. Someone who throughly enjoys my music from India or Russia has no other choice. They would gladly pay but they cannot and then people make them look

like the bad guys. Piracy is largely caused by the companies themselves. Of course it would still exist even if everything was ideal as some people just like to pirate. But the scale of it would be severely cut down

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly them losing money or not isn't even relevant in my mind. They put time and effort into creating their songs and for someone to say they shouldn't have to pay is just disrespectful to the artist. Why should they get to experience someone else's hard work for free when others have to pay for it? Not to mention it is illegal regardless.

I don't disrespect the artists, I disrespect the publishers and record companies. Reason why I stopped pirating was that Spotify, Netflix and Steam were just better. Now that Netflix has it's competitors with their exclusives and probably after sometime Spotify is in the same situation and PC games are getting there too, I will start pirating again because it's far more less trouble some than install 10 different services to my TV and pay for all of them to see all the movies and series I want to watch or have 5 different music players on my phone (and pay for all of them) to listen what I want to listen or have 20 different launchers on my PC with different game libraries. We are soon back to the point zero where we left after cable companies shot to their kneecaps with 100+ channels with 2 million different subscription options and prices hiking to hundreds of dollars per month to see all and piracy just becomes a thing again because it's less hassle and you get everything from a one place.

At least for me the money isn't the problem but the inconvenience, like if the publisher makes their own platform to fulfill their own greed over my convenience, fuck them, I'm not gonna pay for that but if I come by I might consume their content from other, more convenient, source and as the publisher decided to put their greed over my convenience, I just put my convenience over the publishers monetary needs fantasies. After all in most cases the artist is already paid and all the hit from me pirating hits the wallets of the publisher (this is even more true in the movie business where most of the time 99% of the makers are paid monthly salary and only star actors, directors and writers may be paid with royalties).

 

Also if Disney or Eminem or whoever goes bankrupt because of this. It's a sad thing, I might keep a microsecond of silence to remember how great they used to be years ago.

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28 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Okay but you also have to see why and what people are pirating. If I release all my music on my own streaming platform only for North America. Someone who throughly enjoys my music from India or Russia has no other choice. They would gladly pay but they cannot and then people make them look

like the bad guys. Piracy is largely caused by the companies themselves. Of course it would still exist even if everything was ideal as some people just like to pirate. But the scale of it would be severely cut down

Okay, but how often is that actually a problem? How often does a popular band only release their music in North America? Apple Music, for example is available in over 100 countries, including India:

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/apple-music-is-now-in-57-countries-that-spotify-isnt/

 

So is Spotify for that matter:

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/the_basics/full-list-of-territories-where-spotify-is-available/

 

So, with Music, it's very much less likely to be a problem. Russia, maybe - and for those countries, sure.

 

But we're not talking about Russia. We're talking about Canadians, British, German, etc - people who can both afford, and have access to, music for incredibly cheap. YouTube has almost every song on it (granted, some are georestricted outside of North America - but a VPN solves that). Spotify is available in most countries and has a free ad-supported level of service.

 

People, for the most part, steal music because they want to, and because it's easy. It's not even about laziness anymore, because launching Spotify is sure as hell a lot easier than loading up a Torrent Site, searching for and finding an album or song, and then torrenting it.

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4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

There's a reason Piracy exists.

Yes, mostly it has nothing to do with what you are arguing.  Don't tell me the pirate bay became a thing because some poor people in third world countries couldn't afford a CD.  The main reason for all piracy is people just don't want to pay for the product. you know it is we all do,  people need to stop with the charade that there is anything moral or ethically right driving piracy.

 

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

When it was just Netflix and Blockbuster movie piracy say an all time low.

 

Don't care, we are talking about the music industry.

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Then as Netflix competitors started popping up making their platforms exclusive piracy has been rising.

Again, Netflix has had no impact on the music industry, piracy has. As the evidence I linked proves.

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Bands have released albums at pay what you want prices.

Only after the internet stripped them of any way to control the distribution.

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

So you technically can download the album for free.

Because of piracy.

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Yet since the album was actually good they made more money then they would have originally.

Citation, if you look at the revenue of the music industry no one is making more money now that they were in the past, in fact sales tanked for all except the absolute largest of performers who either had it made before 2000 or has the baking of the entire entertainment industry.

 

4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Simply looking at it so zoomed it at sale for sale and every song stolen is money lost is dumb. You cannot for certain say if Bob pirated the music they lost $5. What if Bob really like them and decided to purchase to support the artist as he wants more music. Did they make $0 because he stole one copy and bought another? Now what if Bob stole a song and showed his friends who later went out and bought 6 copies total. Without Bob pirating one song they would of made less money. Piracy is not a simple debate but to be closed minded only hurts the consumers. 

 

Actually, if you had read any of what i linked to in the other thread you would see that is exactly what happened.  You can make up as many scenarios that result in them making more money as you want, but the research has been done and the music industry did not benefit from piracy. In fact no industry has.   For the music industry content has been exponentially growing while revenue was tumbling from 2001 to 2016 it was fall after fall after fall.  It was only in 2016 that streaming revenue (apple music, spotify, pandora etc) began to show any increase in revenue.

 

 

So again, piracy has crippled the music industry, piracy was never good for revenue, the facts are there in the links in that post I linked earlier. Read Leadeaters posts they are very on point and sometime explain better than i do.

 

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, Lurick said:

 

So then why, with piracy at an all time high, does the RIAA claim they are making more money now than ever before if piracy hurts them so much?

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180323/14512839491/riaa-reports-music-industry-is-making-all-money-just-as-new-study-says-piracy-has-never-been-more-widespread.shtml

Additionally, why do they get to be entitled to make money for 110 years + life  and keep getting to extend that copyright on older works as they get closer to expiration? I wish I was a company like that and could make infinite money for all eternity by milking old works from creators who are no longer alive because I stole it from the public domain and claimed a "right" that I get to keep extending for longer and longer periods of time :)

 

 

Music industry revenue has only started going up since 2016,  seriously from 2001 to 2016 their sales tanked really hard,  content creation did not stop, content consumption did not stop.  The only thing that stopped was that people stopped paying for the content.  If you want to know why the revenue is rising, that is because it has hit rock bottom.  When you are right down you can only go up.  EDIT: just to clarify, streaming services didn't start until about 2007/2008, so for about 7-8 years the loss in revenue was solely from people finding alternate access to content than buying it. It has taken that long for streaming services very low income to become the rising revenue stream of the industry.

 

If you are concerned with copyright after a content creator dies or theft of public domain works then talk to your government.  The reality is if this is anything to do with piracy, given it only started in the last 10, it is more likely to be a result of piracy as the industry tried to claw back revenue and control over their main product.

 

So many times in the piracy debate people put the cart before the horse.  The reality is the music industry existed,  then piracy came a long then the industry reacted.  We can't use the reaction of the industry to justify the piracy that caused it. the arrow of time only works in one direction.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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I'd gladly pay $30 for Spotify if it wasn't missing so much stuff.

 

That said albums are too expensive, y'all expecting me to shell $12 USD for a digital one? Learn from Steam. 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Andreas Lilja said:

I'd gladly pay $30 for Spotify if it wasn't missing so much stuff.

 

That said albums are too expensive, y'all expecting me to shell $12 USD for a digital one? Learn from Steam. 

 

 

 

I would expect $10Aus for a digital album,  $5 for a few songs in a teaser (not that they are relevant anymore) and $20 for a CD with value add goodies.  Streaming services (whilst being the main income stream for the artists these days) are not making money and not paying anywhere near enough to support new artists.  which means the system as a whole is currently flawed.  Which means people are not getting a decent service and artists are not being paid enough. 

 

We still haven't found that happy medium where services, prices and content is balanced and the market self regulates.  In the 80's it was pay through the nose for music, in the 2000's is was free and everywhere,  now we are still in the free and all over the place state, but we have some semblance of services that could begin to meet everyone's needs. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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On 8/23/2019 at 5:43 PM, BuckGup said:

The music industry is cancer. They would actively DDOS pirating websites in the early 2000s and late 90s

You realize how silly that sounds right? They did that because they wanted to protect their work, why should they let the pirate sites do as they please?

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

I would expect $10Aus for a digital album,  $5 for a few songs in a teaser (not that they are relevant anymore) and $20 for a CD with value add goodies.  Streaming services (whilst being the main income stream for the artists these days) are not making money and not paying anywhere near enough to support new artists.  which means the system as a whole is currently flawed.  Which means people are not getting a decent service and artists are not being paid enough. 

 

We still haven't found that happy medium where services, prices and content is balanced and the market self regulates.  In the 80's it was pay through the nose for music, in the 2000's is was free and everywhere,  now we are still in the free and all over the place state, but we have some semblance of services that could begin to meet everyone's needs. 

Having few artists in friends and I have to disagree. Streaming services are paying well for artists, just not for artists with record companies behind. In the 2000's and later record companies have taken the big fall, piracy is the one big thing but as big is the digitalization. Still hour in record studio with crew costs around 50-100€ (lock-out around or less than 50€). The price to run a studio hasn't dropped that much and there is still need for them but what has plummeted is the price to build home studio or just get the gear and softwares to record at home. Like recording a guitars for LP takes around 15 hours, that would be 750-1500€ in studio rents + mastering (100-500€) versus 1-year license for Pro-Tools costs 300€ and USB-interface for guitar 60€ (with a OS X you can drop that Pro-Tools and just use Garage Band or pay 200€ for Logic Pro X) and that software is good to record everything and most of the USB-interfaces can handle any instrument and in the end 90% of the audience won't hear the difference. Now you need to learn many new skills and learn a lot, but that easily +1000€ for guitar tracks compared to 400€+sweat, yeah, kind of no-brainer for bands that even just want to make a demo.

And who used to run those studios? Biggest ones were run by record companies and still are. Now just think about that the amount of starting artists hasn't dropped (probably risen) generally but the need for studios has plummeted and probably even 20-30 years ago studios were run full 24/7, I don't think there's many studios today that have enough renters to even run full hours (8-16h) every single working day. Those are some huge losses for record companies that used to have big studios in every a bit bigger city back in the days and now even the biggest record companies have handful of studios around the world and guess where those losses are counted into.

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8 hours ago, Thaldor said:

Having few artists in friends and I have to disagree. Streaming services are paying well for artists, just not for artists with record companies behind. In the 2000's and later record companies have taken the big fall, piracy is the one big thing but as big is the digitalization.

What do you mean by digitization? 

 

8 hours ago, Thaldor said:

Still hour in record studio with crew costs around 50-100€ (lock-out around or less than 50€). The price to run a studio hasn't dropped that much and there is still need for them but what has plummeted is the price to build home studio or just get the gear and softwares to record at home. Like recording a guitars for LP takes around 15 hours, that would be 750-1500€ in studio rents + mastering (100-500€) versus 1-year license for Pro-Tools costs 300€ and USB-interface for guitar 60€ (with a OS X you can drop that Pro-Tools and just use Garage Band or pay 200€ for Logic Pro X) and that software is good to record everything and most of the USB-interfaces can handle any instrument and in the end 90% of the audience won't hear the difference. Now you need to learn many new skills and learn a lot, but that easily +1000€ for guitar tracks compared to 400€+sweat, yeah, kind of no-brainer for bands that even just want to make a demo.

Two things,

 

1. none  of that is relevant to what piracy did to the industry. 

2. even though  building a home studio has no relevance, your figures are way off.   A decent set of mics required to get professional sounds will run into the thousands alone. And that's before you even think about room treatment,  decent monitors and interface.  You  won't get much change out of $10,000 to set up a proper (albeit entry level) studio.

 

8 hours ago, Thaldor said:

And who used to run those studios? Biggest ones were run by record companies and still are. Now just think about that the amount of starting artists hasn't dropped (probably risen) generally but the need for studios has plummeted and probably even 20-30 years ago studios were run full 24/7, I don't think there's many studios today that have enough renters to even run full hours (8-16h) every single working day. Those are some huge losses for record companies that used to have big studios in every a bit bigger city back in the days and now even the biggest record companies have handful of studios around the world and guess where those losses are counted into.

Although I disagree that who owns the studio makes any difference to the effects of piracy (can't even work out why you think there is a link) , there are many big name studios that are own and operated privately or by the artists themselves.

 


 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Steaming have enabled new artists with good music to be discovered more and growing faster than they otherwise would have done

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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