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Spotify refuses to fix a bad driving hazard, calls it a feature instead.

10 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Personally, I consider ANY touchscreen-interaction in the first place a hazard in a moving vehicle, if it's the person operating the vehicle doing it. Actual physical knobs and buttons can be operated simply with finger-feel, touchscreen can't. If anything, I'd make it illegal to operate any touchscreen at all by the person operating the vehicle.

I totally agree. Anything that makes your hand leave the steering wheel. It takes a fraction of a second to loose control and unless you are superman i doubt  can turn the volume knob up or down and get back to the wheel in that amount of time. Most manufacturer moved controls over the wheel for common things to hopefully remove any reason to let got the wheel. Feel much safer for my kids and family that way.

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I agree that using your phone while driving can lead to an accident, but people are going to do it anyway. I have the same issue with Android Auto, where your phone has a double lock screen to use it. Even sitting still at a stop light they added this extra step to using your phone which I argue is more dangerous because it causes you to be on your phone for longer. 

 

This issue really annoyed me because in my old car the touch screen was disabled while the car was in motion. Didn't make sense to me at all because now I am just going to have to touch my phone while driving. My new car allows me to touch the screen all the time so its no longer an issue. 

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4 hours ago, Franck said:

I don't think so. Unless to reroute it takes you and hour and half. Personally it's max a minute and once the air is cool it stay that way at least 10-15 minutes so it's not a problem. Anyway i have voice control for that

I disagree for two reasons. 

 

1) If the car is in Nuetral/Park and the parking brake is engaged, deliberate user intervention is required before the car will move. Requiring the engine to be shut off as well contributes nothing to safety at this point.

 

2) Efforts should be directed to encouraging safe use of phones (think advertisements and billboards) in addition to traditional negative reinforcements (fines). Safety-wise, it is preferable for drivers to pull off into a parking lot or rest area (perhaps even increasing the number of rest areas on highways), and I think it prudent to ensure the safe option to be as convenient as possible and laws tuned to facilitate that goal. Adding the additional step (however seemingly minimal) of shutting off the engine does not further this goal in any way. Making it easy and convenient to get off the road for a quick call, and be back ln the road when done may help reduce the motive of using a phone while behind the wheel.

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40 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I disagree for two reasons. 

 

1) If the car is in Nuetral/Park and the parking brake is engaged, deliberate user intervention is required before the car will move. Requiring the engine to be shut off as well contributes nothing to safety at this point.

 

2) Efforts should be directed to encouraging safe use of phones (think advertisements and billboards) in addition to traditional negative reinforcements (fines). Safety-wise, it is preferable for drivers to pull off into a parking lot or rest area (perhaps even increasing the number of rest areas on highways), and I think it prudent to ensure the safe option to be as convenient as possible and laws tuned to facilitate that goal. Adding the additional step (however seemingly minimal) of shutting off the engine does not further this goal in any way. Making it easy and convenient to get off the road for a quick call, and be back ln the road when done may help reduce the motive of using a phone while behind the wheel.

I don't make the laws and that is not specific to this. It's illegal to unbuckle if the engine is running. You must buckle and unbuckle when the vehicle is turned off. Bunch of laws are based of the vehicle has to be turned off.

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Let's just put this into perspective here.

 

Yes, we all agree that no one should be playing with their phones while driving.  That is just common sense.

 

However, here in Australia, it is completely legal to have your phone in a cradle displaying information to you - as long as that information is not a video or 'moving picture' (GPS is OK).  Big fines for any other kind of use:
https://gorapid.com.au/resources/information-centre/smartphone-laws-what-you-can-and-cant-do-while-driving

 

The real issue here is that people are people and they WILL want to see the cover art and song information and progress bar while driving.  This is no different than looking at your dash for the same info.  My car has this info when playing CD or listening to the Radio displayed on the centre console and its legal.  However, not all cars have integration to pipe Spotify data to the car dash, and not all car's dashboard have LCDs capable to displaying that data.  Plus, some people like to see what the phone displays and not what the car displays.  I do.

 

So, if your phone goes blank every few minutes then you WILL want to touch it to wake it up.  This is human nature legal or otherwise.  The main hazard here is that this new 'feature' Spotify are refusing to fix means that people will be forced to spend more attention to their phones (instead of driving) than if this 'feature' did not exist.  YouTube music and Apple Music apps keep screen on while plugged in and playing ... so should they follow suit?

 

TLDR;  Spotify refusing to fix bug they introduced increases the hazard associated with using their app while driving.  This is the issue, and this is why they need to pay attention.  

 

Besides, driving aside ... when I have my phone on my desk plugged in and playing music, there is no reason for it to go to sleep at all, ever (unless I tell it to).

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3 hours ago, IAmSandor said:

Let's just put this into perspective here.

 

Yes, we all agree that no one should be playing with their phones while driving.  That is just common sense.

 

However, here in Australia, it is completely legal to have your phone in a cradle displaying information to you - as long as that information is not a video or 'moving picture' (GPS is OK).  Big fines for any other kind of use:
https://gorapid.com.au/resources/information-centre/smartphone-laws-what-you-can-and-cant-do-while-driving

 

The real issue here is that people are people and they WILL want to see the cover art and song information and progress bar while driving.  This is no different than looking at your dash for the same info.  My car has this info when playing CD or listening to the Radio displayed on the centre console and its legal.  However, not all cars have integration to pipe Spotify data to the car dash, and not all car's dashboard have LCDs capable to displaying that data.  Plus, some people like to see what the phone displays and not what the car displays.  I do.

 

So, if your phone goes blank every few minutes then you WILL want to touch it to wake it up.  This is human nature legal or otherwise.  The main hazard here is that this new 'feature' Spotify are refusing to fix means that people will be forced to spend more attention to their phones (instead of driving) than if this 'feature' did not exist.  YouTube music and Apple Music apps keep screen on while plugged in and playing ... so should they follow suit?

 

TLDR;  Spotify refusing to fix bug they introduced increases the hazard associated with using their app while driving.  This is the issue, and this is why they need to pay attention.  

 

Besides, driving aside ... when I have my phone on my desk plugged in and playing music, there is no reason for it to go to sleep at all, ever (unless I tell it to).

Let's be honest here. You don't want the display unlocked to "see the progress bar and album art". You want the display on so that you can fiddle with it, such as changing songs.

If that's not the truth, then I don't agree with your statement that it's "human nature" to want to see the album art so badly, that you feel like you must take your eyes off the road, touch your phone, unlock it, and then look at the album art, and then return to looking at the road. It's not "human nature" to want to look at album art while driving, especially not so badly you're willing to take your eyes off the road and jump through hoops on your phone to view it.

 

Also, you keep calling this a bug. To me it seems like intentional design, and that the "keep screen on" used to be a feature which is now removed.

 

And there are reasons for it to go to sleep.

Security becomes better. You don't want the phone being unlocked without being touched for long periods of time. If you forget about the phone or don't pay attention to it then you want it to lock as soon as possible to reduce the risk of someone using it without your permission or knowledge.

The other benefit is that it saves the display. Listening to music is something people can do for hours. Keeping an OLED screen on with mostly a static display of controls and such will unevenly wear out the display. This is not an issue on LCDs but it is on OLED, which a large portion of users has.

Also, it saves power. I know you have pointed out that you only want it while it is plugged in and charging, but why have a power hungry display on when most people listen to music with their ears, not their eyes?

 

So it's better for security, longevity of the device, and saves some power. The drawback is that in some very niche situations where someone (according to your own words) for example is driving a car and want to look at the album art, that person will have to unlock their phone. Oh and this is mostly an issue if they can't or won't change their screen timeout settings in the OS.

 

 

I get that you want this feature back and it's hard to justify the removal of the feature. But at the same time, I can't help to feel like you're blowing this issue up way out of proportions. I feel like you're trying (and failing) to be manipulative, for example by claiming it's a safety issue when in reality the safest thing to do is not touch your phone. Then you call it a bug, because nobody likes buggy programs right? Except this seems to be by design and therefore not a bug. It feels like you're not entirely honest when you say it's because you want to look at album art either because let's be real, looking at album art should not be a priority while driving.

I can't really shake the feeling that you @IAmSandor is the same person as u/jack_scream who made the Reddit thread as well. You use a lot of the same language and terms. I also found this comment from you on Spotify's board.

Quote

Completely ludicrous this was not patched the second it was reported.

This is a corporate FAIL on part of Spotify.
At least the News is getting out there ....

https://www.reddit.com/r/spotify/comments/csawse/spotify_refuses_to_fix_driving_hazard_calls_it_a/

 

Just be honest and maybe people won't be so critical of you. If you come off as trying to manipulate someone, which I am sure you're doing in this thread, then people will often react with hostility.

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8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Let's be honest here. You don't want the display unlocked to "see the progress bar and album art". You want the display on so that you can fiddle with it, such as changing songs.

If that's not the truth, then I don't agree with your statement that it's "human nature" to want to see the album art so badly, that you feel like you must take your eyes off the road, touch your phone, unlock it, and then look at the album art, and then return to looking at the road. It's not "human nature" to want to look at album art while driving, especially not so badly you're willing to take your eyes off the road and jump through hoops on your phone to view it.

I can change songs from my steering wheel and do so.  I don't want to touch the phone, just see what is playing.  A glance at it is much safer than having to touch it - and it's legal.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, you keep calling this a bug. To me it seems like intentional design, and that the "keep screen on" used to be a feature which is now removed.

Ok, it may not be a 'bug', but the feature was there before, but after the update it went away.  If it was 'by design' then I question the motives and question the reasoning. I can excuse an unintentional bug, but not a change that has this safety implications.  Would be good to know the thinking behind it, but Spotify is not saying anything.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

And there are reasons for it to go to sleep.

Security becomes better. You don't want the phone being unlocked without being touched for long periods of time. If you forget about the phone or don't pay attention to it then you want it to lock as soon as possible to reduce the risk of someone using it without your permission or knowledge.

Again, other apps don't seem to have an issue with this.  And it should be my choice.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The other benefit is that it saves the display. Listening to music is something people can do for hours. Keeping an OLED screen on with mostly a static display of controls and such will unevenly wear out the display. This is not an issue on LCDs but it is on OLED, which a large portion of users has.

Again, choice.  Displays don't wear out as fast as you are suggesting.  

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, it saves power. I know you have pointed out that you only want it while it is plugged in and charging, but why have a power hungry display on when most people listen to music with their ears, not their eyes?

Power?  It's plugged in ... and when fully charged sucks almost no power at all.  Again, I don't think you understand how modern mobile screens work.  And yes, people don't listed with their eyes, but I'm rolling mine right now.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

So it's better for security, longevity of the device, and saves some power. The drawback is that in some very niche situations where someone (according to your own words) for example is driving a car and want to look at the album art, that person will have to unlock their phone. Oh and this is mostly an issue if they can't or won't change their screen timeout settings in the OS.

Read other comments regarding the OS setting.  Regarding your other points ... again, choice.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I get that you want this feature back and it's hard to justify the removal of the feature. But at the same time, I can't help to feel like you're blowing this issue up way out of proportions. I feel like you're trying (and failing) to be manipulative, for example by claiming it's a safety issue when in reality the safest thing to do is not touch your phone. Then you call it a bug, because nobody likes buggy programs right? Except this seems to be by design and therefore not a bug. It feels like you're not entirely honest when you say it's because you want to look at album art either because let's be real, looking at album art should not be a priority while driving.

 

And then you run out of tenuous points and get personal.  I'm not manipulating anything and I am not the only one who thinks it's a safety issue (read the Spotify forum) and since Spotify refuse to address this issue there's no evidence of it being by design either.  You are right however, 'looking at album art is not a priority while driving' ... which just means you have missed the bigger picture.

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

Just be honest and maybe people won't be so critical of you. If you come off as trying to manipulate someone, which I am sure you're doing in this thread, then people will often react with hostility.

No one is being critical of me and no one apart from you has accused me of manipulating anything.  There has been some interesting and insightful debate and only reason I posted it here cause I thought it would make a good Tech Quickie story.

 

But thanks for your feedback.

 

 

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2 hours ago, IAmSandor said:

 but not a change that has this safety implications.

It does not have safety implications.  If you can't use it safely and legally while driving then don't use it. 

 

2 hours ago, IAmSandor said:

Again, other apps don't seem to have an issue with this.  And it should be my choice.

then use those apps.

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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7 hours ago, IAmSandor said:

The real issue here is that people are people and they WILL want to see the cover art and song information and progress bar while driving

Yeah, because most people when they play a CD stick the case in a cradle on the windscreen just so they can see the cover art

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i might be wrong but i dont see this affecting too many people.

a lot of people use their car bluetooth so they have controls on the car and dont need the phone screen.

i personally use spotify via android auto. atm i run android auto directly on the phone so i do interact with it like i would with a radio but android auto is the one who keeps the screen awake.

at the very least you can always get a cheap aux bluetooth knob with a couple of buttons, mount it somewhere easily reachable and just use that. that way you can skip tracks or navigate through them without even having to look at the phone or the phone display having to be on.

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Spotify also added in the annoying autosync on every single device you own, so when I play something on my PC, it runs on my phone and kills my battery. Despite people having asked for a way to disable this for years, Spotify does nothing.

Spotify sucks.

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10 hours ago, IAmSandor said:

A glance at it is much safer than having to touch it - and it's legal.

Shooting myself in the leg with a .22 short is safer than in the head with a 12 gauge slug.

 

Still extremely unsafe compared to the option of just not shooting myself.

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I may need to go comb through this thread more carefully...but the iPhone at the locked screen state should not....

Ohhh, this is using Spotify via Bluetooth, and NOT through Apple CarPlay / Android Auto?

 

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25 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

TL;DR: Drivers shouldn't interact with their phones while driving (either by touch, voice or whatever). Just put a playlist of songs you like and forget about it.

That's not the point, he want to look at the cover art and progress bar instead of the road ahead. /s

 

45 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Spotify also added in the annoying autosync on every single device you own, so when I play something on my PC, it runs on my phone and kills my battery. Despite people having asked for a way to disable this for years, Spotify does nothing.

Never happen to me if Spotify is not running on the background.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the problem is.

 

So, you're playing Spotify. Over Bluetooth. And the phone is plugged in. And Spotify keeps locking the iPhone, and shutting the display off - Correct?

 

1. Does music still play even when the iPhone is locked? (I assume yes)

2. Does the Lock Screen still display Forward/Back/Pause, etc? - It does this with every other music player, and I recall it did this with Spotify the few times I've used it.

3. Does Siri voice command still allow you to skip songs, pause, etc? (Eg: "Hey Siri, skip song")

4. Does iOS still allow you to change your lock settings so the screen never turns off? (Yes, it does)

 

#2 is the only mildly annoying thing, in that if you want to press the touch buttons on the screen, you need to turn the screen back on. You DO NOT need to unlock or authorize the phone, since the lock screen will show the audio navigation buttons.

 

Realistically, this is kind of annoying - at best. But the end result is the same: You shouldn't be touching the screen anyway when driving - period. Use hands free controls (Voice, or steering wheel if supported), or don't control the phone at all.

 

I do get the appeal of having the music data available for you to look at (Eg: Song info, artist/name, long length, how much time is left before the song is over, etc) - but those are luxuries in a car. Modern cars will generally display all of that info on the Infotainment system Screen - typically through CarPlay, but that's not even strictly required.

 

For example, my 2014 Jetta does not support CarPlay. It has Bluetooth - but the Forward/Back buttons on the steering wheel don't work over Bluetooth (At least, not with an iOS device). However, it also has an oldschool MDI connector (And the cable they provided was an MDI to Apple 30-pin iPod cable - the damn thing is also only like 4 inches long).

 

So I used a 30-pin to Lightning adapter, plus a Lightning Extension Cable, and I can hook up any iPhone model to the car. Hooked up via the MDI connector, it charges the phone and allows all steering wheel controls to function. It also shows the Song title and current playback time (Eg: 2m35s into the current song), and through the Infotainment controls, I can look at Artist, Album, etc - though I do have to cycle through each one.

 

Anyway, my point is - yeah it's nice to see the info on the screen. Nice. Not required.

 

And anyone arguing it's a safety hazard while driving is a bad driver. There - I said it. Why? Because if it's a hazard, that means you're messing with your phone while driving - fucking stop that.

 

If you really need to know what song is playing or something - use Siri and ask.

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this isnt a bug.  stop fucking around with your phone instead of paying attention to the road.

 

with spotify, you can change songs, pause, and see the album art all from the lockscreen, without even unlocking your phone.

 

the only reason to unlock, would be to browse or lookup songs in different playlists, which means you arent looking at the road.  be a responsible driver and care about other peoples lives instead of what song you're listening to.

 

if you rear end me cuz you were busy fucking with your phone, you're gonna care a lot more about my fist through your face than whether you're listening to backstreet boys or beyonce.

 

 

also this isnt tech news

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On 8/19/2019 at 2:43 PM, WereCatf said:

Personally, I consider ANY touchscreen-interaction in the first place a hazard in a moving vehicle, if it's the person operating the vehicle doing it. Actual physical knobs and buttons can be operated simply with finger-feel, touchscreen can't. If anything, I'd make it illegal to operate any touchscreen at all by the person operating the vehicle.

Touchscreens built into cars is a whole another rant. For added frustration if you're right handed, drive a right hand drive car so you have to operate it with your non-dominate hand ?. Infotainment I kinda get due the number of functions available, but touch screens for the HVAC can fuck right off. Voice assistants however are brilliant.

 

As for Spotify in the car, playlist are your friend. Or go old school with a USB stick. 

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That moment when Android (or at least a 2 year old LG V20) is objectively better then a brand new iPhone... ?

 

When my phone connects to my bluetooth in my car (regular bluetooth not AA or anything newer like that) and I open spotify, It knows I'm in my car and gave me a "driving mode" view with less and bigger buttons and I believe it kept my screen on. But I disabled it and if I wanted my screen to stay on indefinitely, there are settings for that in the phone itself.

 

Plus all LG phones have this nifty little feature where you can wake up your phone by just double tapping anywhere on the screen when the display is turned off. So a quick double tap, and bam, theres my lock screen with the spotify widget front and center, one more swipe and I am in the full spotify app. Also... steering controls... If your car is that old that it doesn't at least have bluetooth or some sort of steering controls, then that's on you. There is no obligation for spotify to make features for a type of vehicle that is becoming more and more obsolete. (mine is 10 years old and has bluetooth and steering controls)

 

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2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

 

If you really need to know what song is playing or something - use Siri and ask.

Wonder if Spotify keeps a history of songs that have been played?

 

I play songs locally from PowerAmp, so I tend to know what song is playing and what will play next, so it's just a matter of making sure I have enough music in que for the commute. Phone stays in pocket thereafter, and the bluetooth dongle (I'm too cheap to buy a car with bluetooth proper) has the controls.

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On 8/19/2019 at 12:31 AM, Kisai said:

 

This doesn't appear to be a bug, but a feature to designed to not allow playing with the phone while the vehicle is in motion.

I absolutely hate "features" like this.

Because they always assume you are the driver. Because your phone is the one connected to the car. No I am the passenger and as the passenger, I am the one who controls what songs we listen to, I am the one responsible to inputting the new destination into the GPS exc.

 

That sometimes means though, I am using the drivers phone to do so. Cause setting up a new blutooth connection on a car is annoying... or flat out disabled while moving because again its assuming the driver is doing it and NOT the passenger.

Sure the car can't tell who is trying to operate the touch screen, but it can tell that someone is in the passenger seat because it will have an alarm if they unbuckle their seatbelt.

 

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8 hours ago, Sypran said:

Because they always assume you are the driver. Because your phone is the one connected to the car. No I am the passenger and as the passenger, I am the one who controls what songs we listen to, I am the one responsible to inputting the new destination into the GPS exc.

Yes it's not smart enough to assume you're the driver so why not you the smarter one disable screen sleep yourself. Is it that hard? Or you simply too lazy to do that?

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9 hours ago, Sypran said:

but it can tell that someone is in the passenger seat because it will have an alarm if they unbuckle their seatbelt.

Many can’t.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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On 8/19/2019 at 12:06 AM, Zodiark1593 said:

Not sure this classifies as "news" per se...

 

Seems Spotify are trying to discourage interacting with the device at all during driving. This could be bypassed itself in iOS however. Given that the phone is on the charger when this "feature" occurs, there should be no problem with extending the time to have the screen power off.


The problem is anybody being honest with themselves knows 99% people who are inclined to use it will still do so even if its (arguably? depends i guess on location) illegal to do so, so eitherway they are making it worse not better.  Doesn't matter what the intent is.   

Never thought i'd see the day where a music-player would potentially cause risk of life and limb.

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9 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

Never thought i'd see the day where a music-player would potentially cause risk of life and limb.

And you still haven't.

 

Because what's causing the risk are self centered assholes with death wishes.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

And you still haven't.

 

Because what's causing the risk are self centered assholes with death wishes.

no, clearly the app promotes such behavior when plugged in.

If you want people crossing the street safely you don't promote it by taking away cross-walks in high traffic areas, they're just going to j-walk more frequently in such a case, thats essentially what a 'feature' like this is. 

You have to work with human nature because people are bound to it eitherway. 

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