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Skanky Sylveon

Pale Blue lithium polymer batteries promise to provide more power and charge faster than nickel metal hydride AA and AAA batteries

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Posted · Original PosterOP
17 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

can it be used while being charged? o_o

18650 batteries can, so I don't see why not.

Would be pretty goofy looking though. 

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6 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

18650 batteries can, so I don't see why not.

Would be pretty goofy looking though. 

hmm interesting. I just need a tethered line to a larger USB battery, LOL ,_,

 

or if anyone knows where i can get a AA usb adapter (that has the right voltage step-down)...

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30 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

hmm interesting. I just need a tethered line to a larger USB battery, LOL ,_,

 

or if anyone knows where i can get a AA usb adapter (that has the right voltage step-down)...

I'm sure some kind of dummy-cell thing already exists for such a purpose:

https://www.amazon.com/convert-battery-pack-electric-power/dp/b007aokmne

Though I'd be a bit wary of this kind of strategy since USB is 5v but low amperage normally, so if you plug it into something that doesn't do the right amperage needed for the device, you'll probably melt the cable or the charger will catch fire.

 

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1 hour ago, Kisai said:

I'm sure some kind of dummy-cell thing already exists for such a purpose:

https://www.amazon.com/convert-battery-pack-electric-power/dp/b007aokmne

Though I'd be a bit wary of this kind of strategy since USB is 5v but low amperage normally, so if you plug it into something that doesn't do the right amperage needed for the device, you'll probably melt the cable or the charger will catch fire.

 

not available ,_, (EDIT: found another one, but no electrical specs...)

 

it's just for one low power device. it takes in either a 5V 1A USB power or 2 LR6 batteries (I'm assuming series, which makes 3V), so...

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Sounds too expensive. 


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23 hours ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

I found some li-ion batteries, but no lipo batteries. 

Also, the only 2000 mah that I found was NiMH.

 

Although it does seem like there are lithium ion batteries on Amazon that offer similar functionality for slightly cheaper. 

NiMH batteries don't need overcharge, and over discharge protection circuits, the USB ports also cost money, as well as the LEDs.

Lithium is generally at 3.7v, so I would imagine that there is some switching circuitry involved in these batteries. 

I agree, although I can see it being useful for travel folks and whatnot. 

searching LiPo USB AA batteries brings up plenty of results with the exact same physical specs and dimensions as this fake kickstarter. By defending them as if they're legitimately designing something and not just rebadging chinese garbage does the forum a disservice. 

 

"NiMH batteries don't need overcharge, and over discharge protection circuits, the USB ports also cost money, as well as the LEDs." - so what if the end result is no better than the NIMH battery? 

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23 hours ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/pale-blue-rechargeable-smart-batteries/?amp

 

While the article talks about them lasting more than lithium ion batteries, the kickstarter makes no mention of that on their kickstarter. 

The success doesn't surprise me, rechargeable lithium AA and AAA batteries are something that people have wanted for a while.  While there are non rechargeable lithium Energizer batteries, non rechargeable batteries are both wasteful both money wise and environmentally wise.

That's actually pretty neat, but I can see recharging multiple batteries at once being a bit of a mess.

This also brings up the question on whether or not these batteries are compatible with devices that can charge regular nickel metal hydride by just plugging them in.

 

Let's also keep in mind that this is a kickstarter project, and a lot has gone wrong with kickstarter projects in the past.  But I will remain cautiously optimistic. 

For a while there were usb AA batteries for sale. You took off the cap and a usb was underneath. Sadly I think they got taken off the market. :(

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Posted · Original PosterOP
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10 hours ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

They do other types. I just could not be bothered that second to check all of them. Did eventually find what look to be exact "replicas" of the Kickstarter. I wonder how a Chinese company managed to invent timetravel and take that Kickstarter tech back to our time. ;) As Justpoet posted.

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I can't help but think that if the large players haven't made these, there's likely a good reason. That charging method is a pretty glaring one. Not to mention how many things really use AA and AAA batteries anymore? 


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25 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Not to mention how many things really use AA and AAA batteries anymore? 

"Massaging" devices.


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28 minutes ago, dizmo said:

...Not to mention how many things really use AA and AAA batteries anymore? 

Quite a few things. For me, it's mostly flashlights. A small 2 AA cell Energizer LED flashlight puts out far more light than the old multi D cell Maglights did and last longer. I have four of the Energizers (made from machined billet aluminum): one in my desk, one by my bed, one in my truck, and one in my purse. I also have a few of the El Cheapo Chinese flashlights that use three AAA in a cartridge as backups but, as they eventually die, I dump them rather than replace them. I have analog wall clocks that use a single AA. My travel alarm uses a single AA. I have a Sanyo keyboard that uses six AAAs. My good point and shoot camera and its flash unit use four AAs each. My small point and shoot purse camera uses a couple of AAs. My home's two thermostats use two AAs each. I have a small inspection camera that use four AAs.

 

I haven't bought a AA or AAA in years. I have a stable of Eneloop NiMH rechargables in each size. When a batttery goes dead, I pop in a fresh one and recharge the dead one later at my convenience. I always have spare batteries on hand. I keep them in little plastic cases that hold four each. They easily fit in a pocket, my purse, and the bag I keep my LaCrosse four cell battery chargers in.

 

These batteries hold their charge for at least a year in storage. They are durable. I have many that are around a decade or more old and I have yet to have one completely die on me. These batteries and my two chargers still meet my needs and, as long as they continue to do so, I see no point in buying into newer technology. At my age, I will probably die before my AAs and AAAs do.


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29 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Quite a few things. For me, it's mostly flashlights. A small 2 AA cell Energizer LED flashlight puts out far more light than the old multi D cell Maglights did and last longer. I have four of the Energizers (made from machined billet aluminum): one in my desk, one by my bed, one in my truck, and one in my purse. I also have a few of the El Cheapo Chinese flashlights that use three AAA in a cartridge as backups but, as they eventually die, I dump them rather than replace them. I have analog wall clocks that use a single AA. My travel alarm uses a single AA. I have a Sanyo keyboard that uses six AAAs. My good point and shoot camera and its flash unit use four AAs each. My small point and shoot purse camera uses a couple of AAs. My home's two thermostats use two AAs each. I have a small inspection camera that use four AAs.

 

I haven't bought a AA or AAA in years. I have a stable of Eneloop NiMH rechargables in each size. When a batttery goes dead, I pop in a fresh one and recharge the dead one later at my convenience. I always have spare batteries on hand. I keep them in little plastic cases that hold four each. They easily fit in a pocket, my purse, and the bag I keep my LaCrosse four cell battery chargers in.

 

These batteries hold their charge for at least a year in storage. They are durable. I have many that are around a decade or more old and I have yet to have one completely die on me. These batteries and my two chargers still meet my needs and, as long as they continue to do so, I see no point in buying into newer technology. At my age, I will probably die before my AAs and AAAs do.

This is going to come across as rather rude...but you're on the more mature side, yes?

I say this because I haven't seen travel alarms sell well in almost a decade, most cameras use proprietary battery packs (at least the higher end ones, though my Samsung flash also used AA's, which was a PITA...I won't touch on the fact that you use point and shoot cameras ;)), the flashlights are valid...though a lot of people would just use the flashlight on their phone. I think for most people, batteries aren't as necessary as they have been in quite a while.


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1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Not to mention how many things really use AA and AAA batteries anymore? 

XB360 and XBOne controllers.

Wireless mice.

Wireless keyboards.

TV Remotes.


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1 hour ago, dizmo said:

This is going to come across as rather rude...but you're on the more mature side, yes?

I say this because I haven't seen travel alarms sell well in almost a decade, most cameras use proprietary battery packs (at least the higher end ones, though my Samsung flash also used AA's, which was a PITA...I won't touch on the fact that you use point and shoot cameras ;)), the flashlights are valid...though a lot of people would just use the flashlight on their phone. I think for most people, batteries aren't as necessary as they have been in quite a while.

No worries; I didn't take it as rude. The fact is I am a flatulent geriatric and "more mature side" was a gentle way to put it. 😉

 

I have no fear of new technology and will happily embrace it when it benefits me. However, not all new technology will benefit me. In fact, at times, it is a detriment. In this case, being able to use the same batteries is a huge convenience which eliminates a lot of extra devices. Having to have proprietary batteries means having spare batteries for each type, which means I have to have and keep track of more batteries. It also means I have to have keep up with more different kinds of chargers. There is no advantage in that. I also do not like new technology being rammed down my throat. Whether to adopt it or not should be MY decision.

 

As far as the point and shoots go, I'm not a photographer by any stretch of the imagination. The camera in my dumb as rocks cell phone (which rarely gets turned on and only costs me $5 a month to use) is fine for emergency use (such as recording damage in an accident; I don't have a smart phone because the advantages don't come close to outweighing the accidents). Point and shoots work well for me most of the time when I actually use them. The big one, a Canon SX10 IS is a high end point and shoot. I've had it for a long time, it works well, and just can't justify replacing it with something that not only will not benefit me (let alone take better pictures), it will require that I have proprietary batteries and chargers (especially since I already have plenty of AAs), external lenses, etc. The small one is a Canon SX150 IS. While not as nice as the SX10, it's far more convenient and still takes better pictures than most phones. I also don't need to worry about someone stealing them. 😉

 

I have one travel alarm. It's dependable and works just fine to wake me up when I'm on the road.

 

Keep in mind this is a technology forum and the needs of people here will not be representative of most people.

 

Btw, I forgot about wireless mice (I have a small herd of those), door locks, the four cordless phones in my house (way more convenient than keeping track of my cell phone and having to charge it everyday), "egg" timer, home alarm clock, and TV remotes.


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As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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3 hours ago, dizmo said:

I can't help but think that if the large players haven't made these, there's likely a good reason. That charging method is a pretty glaring one. Not to mention how many things really use AA and AAA batteries anymore? 

Idk about the last part but for sure, you would expect this from the big companies if they could do it well, and if they can't, then who else is going to

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The reality is that big name battery companies wouldn't want to make something like this.  The energy density and longevity of LiPo puts existing batteries, even non-rechargables, to shame.  They want to keep selling those for the few devices that haven't just built in the LiPo on their own.  Even smoke detectors often have "lifetime" LiPo batteries in them now (designed to last until the detection unit is supposed to be replaced).

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8 hours ago, Drak3 said:

XB360 and XBOne controllers.

Wireless mice.

Wireless keyboards.

TV Remotes.

Kinda surprised that these don't just have USB-C connectors on them now. Plug in the cable, it charges the internal battery, switches to USB low-latency input. Remove the cable, switches to battery, lasts 6 months or so. I have a smart scale that I've only charged three times since I purchased it. Meanwhile the stupid EVE kit I have ( earlier version of https://www.evehome.com/en/eve-room ) has to replace the batteries every two months with 3 AA batteries. I've had the batteries leak one of those times. 

 

What I would prefer, is that all these "smarthome" devices come up with just a 2.5cmx2.5cmx1cm LiPo battery that can be replaced, even if it has to take the screws out. Put a USB-C connector on them to charge them. If a battery can be recharged 100 times, you should never have to replace the battery at all if they only need to be charged twice a year.

 

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4 hours ago, justpoet said:

The reality is that big name battery companies wouldn't want to make something like this.  The energy density and longevity of LiPo puts existing batteries, even non-rechargables, to shame.  They want to keep selling those for the few devices that haven't just built in the LiPo on their own.  Even smoke detectors often have "lifetime" LiPo batteries in them now (designed to last until the detection unit is supposed to be replaced).

Do you have a rough figure for the actual number?  I'm curious if it's 50% more, 5x more, etc.

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7 hours ago, Drak3 said:

XB360 and XBOne controllers.

Wireless mice.

Wireless keyboards.

TV Remotes.

And a lot more than that too.  They're most certainly still a thing.  But, it would also be wrong not to notice that, for better or worse, they are getting less common.  Even one of your examples - there is a new Xbox one pro controller coming with an integrated battery.

 

On the subject of pros and cons, I guess the pros are lighter and potentially longer runtime, but there are a lot of cons that concern me.  For one, it's no longer swap and go, you have to plug it in to charge, or use the cabled version in the mean time, which isn't likely an option because if it was you probably would have just done that from the start (not to mention that it defeats the point regardless during that period).  Also, it might be lighter than AAs, but it's probably heavier than no battery at all, which is an option with the current models for anyone who doesn't want or use wireless.  Then there's the lifespan issues - is it replaceable in 2 or 5 years?  Not just theoretically (which itself is not a given), but practically too - can I actually go buy a replacement?

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24 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Do you have a rough figure for the actual number?  I'm curious if it's 50% more, 5x more, etc.

Comparing similar cell sizes (basically C battery size)...

 

Alkaline cells get 1 cycle, but about 8000mAh and start with a charge of 1.5v and drop mostly linearly.

Old style NiCd cells generally had 2000+ cycles of usable life, but could only hold aprox 1800mAh and charge to 1.2v.

High capacity NiCd cells generally get 500ish cycles of usable life, but can hold aprox 3500mAh and charge to 1.2v.

NiMH cells generally get about 700 cycles of usable life with capacity starting aprox 6000mah, but dropping throughout its life after about 300 cycles and charge to 1.2v.  Handles higher current loads way better than NiCd, but self discharges faster (eneloop were some of the first to mostly resolve the self discharge so it could sit for a while, but that comes at the cost of capacity…often close to 1/3 the capacity goes away to get longer charged shelf life).  Modern expensive NiMH will generally have about 4000mAh, be able to sit on the shelf, and get 500ish cycles before noticeable degradation.

LiPo cells generally get about 1000 cycles of usable life with a nominal charge voltage of 3.7v with aprox capacity of 4000mAh.  This gives it aprox 14.8Wh vs the 4.8Wh of a good NiMH (roughly 3x capacity).  To make them work in normal items (such as in our example), they have a voltage regulator on them, so basically that full charge time will act as a 100% charge fully new Alkaline.

 

There are 3 more characteristics of LiPo based cells though, which make them vastly superior to the older tech.  The first is that they tend to hold their voltage fairly steady for most of the capacity of the battery, vs mostly linearly going from full charge to 0 volts.  The second is that they can output MUCH more current, so when you need a burst of power from a LiPo, you can just take it, while as when you needed that from a NiCd, you needed to put many of them in parallel.  The last is that when they're being used their resistance typically goes down instead of up, so they can work more effectively where they're wired in series vs the other types as well.  Unfortunately, like standard NiMH, it doesn't generally hold up to a full charge on the shelf very well…but slightly under full charge, it'll sit at virtually forever with almost no self discharge.

 

The AA shaped LiPo I linked above is not really much different than a good Eneloop for capacity…but that's because it houses a USB port and charger electronics and voltage cutoff and regulation electronics in addition to the LiPo inside.  The larger the cell (see my comparison above for a C cell size), the less those extra electronics cut into the space (and thus capacity) of the battery.

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