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Skanky Sylveon

Pale Blue lithium polymer batteries promise to provide more power and charge faster than nickel metal hydride AA and AAA batteries

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Posted · Original PosterOP

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/pale-blue-rechargeable-smart-batteries/?amp

 

While the article talks about them lasting more than lithium ion batteries, the kickstarter makes no mention of that on their kickstarter. 

Quote

Pale Blue lithium polymer (LiPo) smart batteries, currently in a Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign, can be recharged more than 1,000 times with a unique USB charging method. Presently with close to $100,000 in pledges, more than ten times the campaign’s all-or-nothing goal, the Pale Blue AA and AAA rechargeable batteries have advantages over both single-use alkaline batteries and nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) rechargeables.

The success doesn't surprise me, rechargeable lithium AA and AAA batteries are something that people have wanted for a while.  While there are non rechargeable lithium Energizer batteries, non rechargeable batteries are both wasteful both money wise and environmentally wise.

Quote

You don’t need to carry an old school multiple-cell battery charging case with an AC adapter cable to recharge Pale Blue’s smart USB LiPo batteries, either. Each battery has a micro USB port and an LED charge indicator light. You can plug a regular USB cable into the micro USB port with the other end of the cable plugged into a USB-AC adapter or a USB port on a computer, a lamp, wall outlet, or multiport charger.

pale-blue-03-1-500x300-c.jpg

That's actually pretty neat, but I can see recharging multiple batteries at once being a bit of a mess.

This also brings up the question on whether or not these batteries are compatible with devices that can charge regular nickel metal hydride by just plugging them in.

 

Let's also keep in mind that this is a kickstarter project, and a lot has gone wrong with kickstarter projects in the past.  But I will remain cautiously optimistic. 

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Can someone explain why we don't have rechargeable lithium ion AAs?  We have lithium AAs, and we have rechargeable lithium in almost every modern device, so where's the problem?  Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

 

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

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Another kickfarted product, you can get LiPo AA USB rechargable batteries on Amazon for less than they're pledging for.

 

$30 for 4 batteries, jesus christ. $30 can buy you *150* nonrechargable batteries, or 20 traditional rechargable batteries with 2000mah capacity... 30% better than this kickfarter

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Posted · Original PosterOP
23 minutes ago, dnyank1 said:

Another kickfarted product, you can get LiPo AA USB rechargable batteries on Amazon for less than they're pledging for.

I found some li-ion batteries, but no lipo batteries. 

Also, the only 2000 mah that I found was NiMH.

 

Although it does seem like there are lithium ion batteries on Amazon that offer similar functionality for slightly cheaper. 

23 minutes ago, dnyank1 said:

$30 for 4 batteries, jesus christ. $30 can buy you *150* nonrechargable batteries, or 20 traditional rechargable batteries with 2000mah capacity... 30% better than this kickfarter

NiMH batteries don't need overcharge, and over discharge protection circuits, the USB ports also cost money, as well as the LEDs.

26 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

Lithium is generally at 3.7v, so I would imagine that there is some switching circuitry involved in these batteries. 

26 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

I agree, although I can see it being useful for travel folks and whatnot. 

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10 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

18650 + paperclip. 

I cannot imagine the power of a 4x D cell maglight converted to use 18650 batteries.

 

I wonder how many LED's that could power....

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2 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

At least one....

 

No, I'm not using a current limiting resistor. 

#livingontheedge

What brand and model?

 

It matters. At least if you're a vaper who's read Mooch's battery guide. The variance between brand and model of battery is staggering.

 

Love my brown LG 18650's.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

What brand and model?

Model number is LGDBMG1185 and N329K254A7.

 

They are LG OEM batteries that was extracted from a dead MSI gaming laptop. 

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Love my brown LG 18650's

LG and Samsung are both great, however. 

20190809_171516.thumb.jpg.c4e47fd3cb9a590149eaf7daec0c3e76.jpg

 

These are flat top 18650 batteries.  They aren't going to be compatible unless you're willing to cram some aluminum foil on the positive end.

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1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Can someone explain why we don't have rechargeable lithium ion AAs?  We have lithium AAs, and we have rechargeable lithium in almost every modern device, so where's the problem?  Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

 

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

They do exist, like this product: https://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-Battery-Charger-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B07QKXT9SK/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1565396677&refinements=p_n_feature_two_browse-bin%3A389571011&s=hpc&sr=1-3

 

But yeah, I'd say most of the problem is that most lithium battery chemistries float around 3V to 3.7V. Also I would argue since lithium tends to be finnicky, you kind of want to have some smarts in the battery to make sure you're not doing something like driving too much current into the battery. But I suppose you could solve that by limiting the current to a known, safe, fixed amount that trickles down over time.

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1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Can someone explain why we don't have rechargeable lithium ion AAs?  We have lithium AAs, and we have rechargeable lithium in almost every modern device, so where's the problem?  Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

 

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

 

Also *than, in the title

https://www.amazon.com/KENTLI-Rechargeable-Battery-Lithium-ion-Batteries/dp/B019O4WISY?tag=metaefficient-20

 

Edit: Looks like everyone kicked Ryan... Have another, sir!


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31 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

Model number is LGDBMG1185 and N329K254A7.

 

They are LG OEM batteries that was extracted from a dead MSI gaming laptop. 

LG and Samsung are both great, however. 

 

These are flat top 18650 batteries.  They aren't going to be compatible unless you're willing to cram some aluminum foil on the positive end.

Same format as my vape batteries then. I wonder how they would compare in Mooch's testing.

 

For those who don't know, Mooch is a self described "electron wrangler" who does extensive testing of batteries for the vaping community. Disclaimers aside, his battery charts are basically the bible for those wanting to do custom coil configurations in their vaporizers.

 

They very basic takeway from his testing, is DO. NOT. USE. E-FEST. BATTERIES. They're garbage.

 

https://batterybro.com/collections/moochs-recommended

 

He has a website. He tests batteries to the point of failure. As in thermal-runaway failure.

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1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Can someone explain why we don't have rechargeable lithium ion AAs?  We have lithium AAs, and we have rechargeable lithium in almost every modern device, so where's the problem?  Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

 

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

 

Also *than, in the title

Voltage regulation probably eats space. Figuring out how to charge it may also be a challenge in a small cylindrical space without dropping capacity to make room for a port.

 

Can a voltage regulater work in both polarities? Regulate output voltage to 1.5V, but allow 4.2V in to charge the battery.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
8 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

For those who don't know, Mooch is a self described "electron wrangler" who does extensive testing of batteries for the vaping community. Disclaimers aside, his battery charts are basically the bible for those wanting to do custom coil configurations in their vaporizers.

I might check him out, I'm wanting to make 18650 battery banks for solar and wind.

 

Electricity is expensive during the winter here.

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12 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

I might check him out, I'm wanting to make 18650 battery banks for solar and wind.

 

Electricity is expensive during the winter here.

That website is specifically selling batteries in large quantities, but they still quote the testing of someone who does testing for vapers, which I find hilarious. Because they state that that battery is "Note: LG 18650 cells are not authorized or intended to be used as stand-alone, removable, rechargeable power sources for e-cigarette or vaping devices, or to be handled directly by consumers in any manner. Clients who inquire about LG loose cells must intend to manufacture battery packs with proper outer casing, PCM/BMS and protection functions and be able to provide documents to prove this."

 

As a vaper, these batteries have lasted me FAR longer than any other battery I've used. Including the LG yellows and Samsung greens. Not only have they lasted, but the battery life is exactly what it was when I originally got them.

 

His blogs are.... as excessive as most high end linux users blogs about Linux.

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2 hours ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

Lithium is generally at 3.7v, so I would imagine that there is some switching circuitry involved in these batteries. 

I agree, although I can see it being useful for travel folks and whatnot. 

1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

They do exist, like this product: https://www.amazon.com/Rechargeable-Battery-Charger-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B07QKXT9SK/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1565396677&refinements=p_n_feature_two_browse-bin%3A389571011&s=hpc&sr=1-3

 

But yeah, I'd say most of the problem is that most lithium battery chemistries float around 3V to 3.7V. Also I would argue since lithium tends to be finnicky, you kind of want to have some smarts in the battery to make sure you're not doing something like driving too much current into the battery. But I suppose you could solve that by limiting the current to a known, safe, fixed amount that trickles down over time.

48 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:
36 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Voltage regulation probably eats space. Figuring out how to charge it may also be a challenge in a small cylindrical space without dropping capacity to make room for a port.

 

Can a voltage regulater work in both polarities? Regulate output voltage to 1.5V, but allow 4.2V in to charge the battery.

 

Hm so there's safety considerations that need to be built into the battery to avoid the risk of bypassing them accidentally, as well as a need for a built in voltage regulator to actually match the "AA spec".  I can see why they build it all in now, although that makes me feel like you'd end up losing so much capacity to this (not to mention increasing the price) that there's no point anymore over a traditional NiMH.  Not surprising then that the few companies who have decided to make them are random obscure no-name brands and nothing mainstream like Energizer, Panasonic, Duracell, etc., which is what I meant by "we don't have them".  They may technically exist but who is actually using these...

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Hm so there's safety considerations that need to be built into the battery to avoid the risk of bypassing them accidentally, 

 

I think the man actually has an 18650 battery loose in his pocket with some spare change that shorted it.

10 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

as well as a need for a built in voltage regulator to actually match the "AA spec". 

The only lithium technology (that I know of) that comes close to the AA voltage spec is lithium titanate. 

A resistor could also be used, but that's incredibly inefficient. 

 

Any form of switching power supply would need a capacitor though. 

A liner voltage regulator would also work, but still wouldn't be as efficient as switching. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

Hm so there's safety considerations that need to be built into the battery to avoid the risk of bypassing them accidentally, as well as a need for a built in voltage regulator to actually match the "AA spec".  I can see why they build it all in now, although that makes me feel like you'd end up losing so much capacity to this (not to mention increasing the price) that there's no point anymore over a traditional NiMH.  Not surprising then that the few companies who have decided to make them are random obscure no-name brands and nothing mainstream like Energizer, Panasonic, Duracell, etc., which is what I meant by "we don't have them".  They may technically exist but who is actually using these...

I would say we should make a new battery standard but cue the xkcd comic.

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12 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I would say we should make a new battery standard but cue the xkcd comic.

And if we do it'd be great until  a new technology comes along with chemistry that doesn't fit it all over again lol

It seems we've sort of removed the need though somewhat with so many devices just having rechargeable lithium built in

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Isn't asphalt-lithium the next biggest thing?


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Posted · Original PosterOP
16 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Isn't asphalt-lithium the next biggest thing?

The addition of asphalt makes them charge a lot faster. 

There is apparently sodium batteries that are looking quite promising in terms of the energy density department. 

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4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I cannot imagine the power of a 4x D cell maglight converted to use 18650 batteries.

 

I wonder how many LED's that could power....

I think you actually want 26650 cells ;) I've got a light that takes them and runs a XHP50.2, nice honest 2000 lumens out the front with a nice floody beam. And a few 18650 lights that do 1000 lumen OTF including a double 18650 Nitecore EC4GT and my fave a XP-L HI V5 neutral white in a C8 host, it has a semi floody beam with a nice almost halogen light color that's really easy on the eyes.

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5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Can someone explain why we don't have rechargeable lithium ion AAs?  We have lithium AAs, and we have rechargeable lithium in almost every modern device, so where's the problem?  Is it an issue where you can't get something near 1.5 v with the cell configurations that are possible?

 

Also Having a charging port built in seems like a waste of space, you can just use an external dock for it like all other rechargeable batteries.

This is an easy explanation. Voltage. Lithium Ion battery cells typically are 3.6V.

 

Also, they exist already

https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-arb-l14-1600u-usb-rechargeable-li-ion-14500-battery/ (actual store I guess)

 

https://www.flashlightworld.ca/fenix-arb-l14-1600u-14500-1600mah-1-5v-lithium-button-top-battery-with-micro-usb-charging-port/

 

In fact this product sounds exactly the same as the item at the top of this thread.

 

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