foxconn forced schoolchildren to work overtime/overnight illegally

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

No, the truth (and it cuts deep to hear sometimes for those in denial) is that you don't actually give a shit if you are unwilling to actually do the things that can affect what you espouse you give a shit about.  Keep saying you do - it doesn't change that you don't.

No company cares if your or our purchases slow down. WE aren't Foxconn's customers. We buy Dell, HP, Apple, and Samsung products. Most electronics makers are getting boards and components from Foxconn. We can't collectively boycott 30% of all companies. You're asking to boycott hundreds of large companies. The ONLY way to do anything about them is to seek legislation, and China is not going to bother. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Tristerin said:

No, the truth (and it cuts deep to hear sometimes for those in denial) is that you don't actually give a shit if you are unwilling to actually do the things that can affect what you espouse you give a shit about.  Keep saying you do - it doesn't change that you don't.

 

Except that there is next to nothing that can be done.  People can care and believe there is little they can do.    Accusing people of pretending to care because they aren't holding to your definition of what someone should do when they care is erroneous.   

 

Someone could care deeply about it and go intentionally buying more product from these companies hoping that the extra profits will lessen the need for such practices.   And that kind of belief is no more wacko than pretending a boycott of any description is linked to how much an individual cares.

[Tristerin]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

No company cares if your or our purchases slow down. WE aren't Foxconn's customers. We buy Dell, HP, Apple, and Samsung products. Most electronics makers are getting boards and components from Foxconn. We can't collectively boycott 30% of all companies. You're asking to boycott hundreds of large companies. The ONLY way to do anything about them is to seek legislation, and China is not going to bother. 

And that is one of many angles that can be taken to affect change.  The quickest, and first is to stop giving them money (and as you note, its all around us - but that doesn't change truth of how we can impact it).  I also go back to buying used (can be done days after the release of a product sometimes) - at least the money stays local if you pay attention to where you purchase from.  There is a lot people can do.  And for the things I give a shit about - I do.  But saying that is only virtue signaling its my actions that make it true which I cant prove here.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

Except that there is next to nothing that can be done.  People can care and believe there is little they can do.    Accusing people of pretending to care because they aren't holding to your definition of what someone should do when they care is erroneous.   

 

Someone could care deeply about it and go intentionally buying more product from these companies hoping that the extra profits will lessen the need for such practices.   And that kind of belief is no more wacko than pretending a boycott of any description is linked to how much an individual cares.

Well I said Give a Shit.  I should have continued only using those words but didn't want to keep typing shit on LTT forums.  Anyhow I don't really care it offended you that I believe in a higher level of giving a shit other than just saying you have an emotion over something.

 

Your second paragraph is logical and I could see where someone would correlate that into impacting.  You mean the opposite of my opinion.  Weird. 

[ARikozuM]

6 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

And that is one of many angles that can be taken to affect change.  The quickest, and first is to stop giving them money (and as you note, its all around us - but that doesn't change truth of how we can impact it).  I also go back to buying used (can be done days after the release of a product sometimes) - at least the money stays local if you pay attention to where you purchase from.  There is a lot people can do.  And for the things I give a shit about - I do.  But saying that is only virtue signaling its my actions that make it true which I cant prove here.

You cannot boycott a company that isn't spoken of. Do you think Samsung tells you that they get two components from Foxconn? No, consumers think the whole phone or TV is made by Samsung. You can say "buy TCL TVs instead of Samsung!". Guess what? The board is made by Foxconn! 

 

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-foxconn-what-does-it-make-closer-look-giant-electronics-manufacturer-1632199

 

Your approach is too outlandish and slow to work. These companies, and governments, will do whatever they can to extort the lesser populations. 

 

Edit: It looks like Foxconn makes 40% of all electronics. Good luck combating 40% of products. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Tristerin said:

Well I said Give a Shit.  I should have continued only using those words but didn't want to keep typing shit on LTT forums.  Anyhow I don't really care it offended you that I believe in a higher level of giving a shit other than just saying you have an emotion over something.

 

Your second paragraph is logical and I could see where someone would correlate that into impacting.  You mean the opposite of my opinion.  Weird. 

when you say you are "sick of people pretending to give a shit" and then go on to list all the things people should do if they "truly" cared, this is read by many as you saying do it my way or you don't care.   There are many complex issues in the world and hardly anyone has the same solution.  I don't think boycotting works in these situations, I have yet to see one anyway.  So I don't take kindly to being told I don't "truly" care because I will likely still buy a new phone next week that contains foxconn parts.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

You cannot boycott a company that isn't spoken of. Do you think Samsung tells you that they get two components from Foxconn? No, consumers think the whole phone or TV is made by Samsung. You can say "buy TCL TVs instead of Samsung!". Guess what? The board is made by Foxconn! 

 

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-foxconn-what-does-it-make-closer-look-giant-electronics-manufacturer-1632199

 

Your approach is too outlandish and slow to work. These companies, and governments, will do whatever they can to extort the lesser populations. 

 

Edit: It looks like Foxconn makes 40% of all electronics. Good luck combating 40% of products. 

Its the first step.  And just because you believe it outlandish to buy used, refurbished, etc is a bit more absurd than thinking not spending money with companies using those products wont impact it.  

 

You have to start somewhere right?  If you believe a protest works, or spending money on their products to combat it by giving them more profits, or you thinking holding a sign works while standing on the public property right out front of their headquarters - are you wrong or right?  Curious what you think about that.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

 These companies, and governments, will do whatever they can to extort the lesser populations. 

And they will do whatever to maintain the value of their economy and stop the whole thing falling a in a dung heap, but that is just adding more opinions and complexity to the problem.

 

To be honest, I don't know why people don't just say, "hey, this is a problem and it's not nice, but I don't have a solution so just be mindful if you can".  Mind you then most forum threads would be 2 pages of mostly people saying the same thing.

 

 

[Tristerin]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

when you say you are "sick of people pretending to give a shit" and then go on to list all the things people should do if they "truly" cared, this is read by many as you saying do it my way or you don't care.   There are many complex issues in the world and hardly anyone has the same solution.  I don't think boycotting works in these situations, I have yet to see one anyway.  So I don't take kindly to being told I don't "truly" care because I will likely still buy a new phone next week that contains foxconn parts.

That's fine you took it that way.  The modicum of communication here is text.  Just because you don't think it works doesn't mean...anything actually.  Just like me not agreeing with you doesn't mean...anything actually.

 

And if you don't take kind to it because I believe you don't truly care - I don't care that you think that either.  It is truth.  Its a very hard truth but it is what it is. (EDIT to clarify the hard truth is that you can choose all of the ways to boycott..or admit you don't give as much of a shit as you think)  

[Tristerin]

Heres the list of non-essiantial things I give a shit about on a daily basis:

 

The 4 F's in life:

 

Family

F**king

Fighting

Food (I mean I LOVE food, its essential but I also eat around 4000-5000 calories a day, would be obese if it wasn't for the Fighting to stay in shape)

 

The rest of the stuff if I am honest with myself...I don't actually give a shit about.  I may think on a subject, or talk about a subject...but I don't actuuuuaaalllly give a shit. 

 

When I bought my motherboard, I know where it comes from so I know what was done (or at least think I know) to get it here to USA...when I received it in the mail I didn't give a shit about any of that because....you guessed it (because Im honest with myself lol)

 

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Idk if this law is a state law but in my state you are not allowed to work past like 7:30 or something on a school night until you turn a certain age. 

10:00 PM is the limit for my age at the time (California), and a 4 hour/day limit on a school day. Taxes were paid though, Dad isn't fool enough to mess with the IRS.

 

I got paid rather well for the trouble (funding a couple years of community college + books + part of laptop in the span of two weeks), though I still despise flooring. 

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

 (EDIT to clarify the hard truth is that you can choose all of the ways to boycott..or admit you don't give as much of a shit as you think)  

But that still negates the fact that some do actually give a shit, they just don't think boycotting is the solution, they would rather send their government letters, or keep proactive on forums highlighting the issue.   Some may even prefer to work with volunteer groups who keep an eye on said companies whilst still using their products.

[Tristerin]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

But that still negates the fact that some do actually give a shit, they just don't think boycotting is the solution, they would rather send their government letters, or keep proactive on forums highlighting the issue.   Some may even prefer to work with volunteer groups who keep an eye on said companies whilst still using their products.

I don't disagree that those are all worthwhile tactics, I disagree on the value of their impact.  If talking about it on the forum leads to action, than it wasn't just virtue signaling.  If talking about it on a forum dies off in 3 days, and there is no change by those who say they give a shit then they are repeating the same thing expecting different results (insanity) and you yourself mentioned twice about Nestle and its ongoing...ongoing...boycott.  People stop buying Nestle, the free market will find a way.  Thing is though, as you noted...they have only grown bigger.  Must be that no one is speaking with their wallets.  

[ARikozuM]

10 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

I don't disagree that those are all worthwhile tactics, I disagree on the value of their impact.  If talking about it on the forum leads to action, than it wasn't just virtue signaling.  If talking about it on a forum dies off in 3 days, and there is no change by those who say they give a shit then they are repeating the same thing expecting different results (insanity) and you yourself mentioned twice about Nestle and its ongoing...ongoing...boycott.  People stop buying Nestle, the free market will find a way.  Thing is though, as you noted...they have only grown bigger.  Must be that no one is speaking with their wallets.  

Very few consumers realize that 90% of their supermarkets are owned by only two or three companies. That's how you get around boycotts and negative press. Nestle, General Mills, Kellogg's, PepsiCo, and X (I'm forgetting the fifth) own nearly 80% of the entire chain supermarket segment. You're not going to get an effective boycott against these companies because they produce their own "competition" and false choice. 

 

Edit: The fifth is Unilever. 

[Tristerin]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Very few consumers realize that 90% of their supermarkets are owned by only two or three companies. That's how you get around boycotts and negative press. Nestle, General Mills, Kellogg's, PepsiCo, and X (I'm forgetting the fifth) own nearly 80% of the entire chain supermarket segment. You're not going to get an effective boycott against these companies because they produce their own "competition" and false choice. 

Says...you.  I hunt, fish and grow a lot of my own food because I don't want to rely on Corporations.  But its not in an attempt to Boycott their existence its about self reliance for me.

 

You end that in false choice.  Perhaps you just don't know there are other choices out there in this example you used.  I mean, my grocery bill is very small I could imagine I could make it smaller if I chose to inconvenience myself a little bit (wont) if I cared more about their existence whatever that care may be.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Tristerin said:

Says...you.  I hunt, fish and grow a lot of my own food because I don't want to rely on Corporations.  But its not in an attempt to Boycott their existence its about self reliance for me.

The classic "I can, others should too". 

 

Not everyone has the ability to hunt. In NJ, I would have said yes, have at it. In FL, there's nowhere to hunt without driving hours. Not everyone has the ability to do what you can, nor should they be forced to. 

 

[Tristerin]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

The classic "I can, others should too". 

 

Not everyone has the ability to hunt. In NJ, I would have said yes, have at it. In FL, there's nowhere to hunt without driving hours. Not everyone has the ability to do what you can, nor should they be forced to. 

 

Move, hard choices.  There are choices you just don't like them.  Or really you don't care enough to make the hard choices.  Which is it.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Move, hard choices.  There are choices you just don't like them.  Or really you don't care enough to make the hard choices.  Which is it.

And now we're moving to a whole other topic. How are the Chinese students supposed to move when they have no money? The families lose favor in the SCS as well. This is a systemic false choice. 

[Tristerin]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

And now we're moving to a whole other topic. How are the Chinese students supposed to move when they have no money? The families lose favor in the SCS as well. This is a systemic false choice. 

I agree lets not deflate this post.  

 

I don't know how they are supposed to get by - did you get a manual when you were born?  All I am allowed to give is my experiences in life and that is parents dying and going through foster care from 8 till emancipation at 15 where I had nothing.  Notta.  Now I am in a very comfortable existence through a metric fuck ton of hard work.  

 

That's the only advice I can give - go bust your ass.  So I guess the answer is - don't move, make that money - its only a little OT you will be doing it the rest of your life if you want to be successful.  At least, that's the advice that I know worked in my unique situation - lifes experiences are what we know.

[Tellos]

I think if we want to end these we will have to accept higher costs, it is a paradox. Consumers want cheaper prices at all costs. Until they talk of condition and pay but dont wanna pay for it. They expect companies to just eat into profits to do it. You will have to decide eventually if you want cheap dont get upset where or how it is cheap,. You want responsible PAY for it!

[suicidalfranco]

i should care but i won't.

It's China, it has a dictatorial government that could fix this with a snap of it's figers but it doesn't because it clearly benefits them more to keep this kind of behaviour.

 

So all i will do out of this is:

1. Buy the eventual Switch Pro

2. Buy an iPad Pro

3. Buy random cheap electronics from China

 

Cause i don't care

Cause it's not my fight

Cause f**k 'em if they can't obtain change themselves 

[williamcll]

Gonna be even worse if they move to India.