Macbook's T2 Claims Another Victim, Apple Refuses To Honour Warranty

[iamdarkyoshi]

So this may be a bit of a stray from the normal news formats, but Louis Rossmann just got in a Macbook Pro with a failed T2 chip.

 

Now, I know T2 has been covered here on the forums, but I think this instance is a really quite scary example of the issues it can cause, and is therefore potentially newsworthy.

 

For those who need a refresher, what is the T2 chip, and what does it do?

 

Straight from Apple's own website:

Quote

The Apple T2 Security Chip is Apple's second-generation, custom silicon for Mac. By redesigning and integrating several controllers found in other Mac computers—such as the System Management Controller, image signal processor, audio controller, and SSD controller—the T2 chip delivers new capabilities to your Mac.

 

For example, the T2 chip enables a new level of security by including a secure enclave coprocessor that secures Touch ID data and provides the foundation for new encrypted storage and secure boot capabilities. And the T2 chip's image signal processor works with the FaceTime HD camera to enable enhanced tone mapping, improved exposure control, and face-detection–based autoexposure and auto white balance.

 

Added security and features sound great, right? Hold on.

This chip can ONLY be programmed by Apple, and it is TIED to the important hardware components inside the Macbook. The most important of which, is the SSD, which is ENCRYPTED by T2.

 

If something goes wrong in the Macbook, such as a bad wifi chip, you can't just desolder the old wifi chip and install a new one, the T2 chip must be reprogrammed to the new one. (I'd link another Rossmann video on this, but it seems to have been taken down, so I'm not going to quote this as a factually documented example for now)

 

The same applies to a T2 failure itself. If T2 fails, you can't replace it and get a working board again. Apple, and only Apple can repair such things, which they could very well simply refuse to fix, like they did with Linus's imac pro.

 

And since T2 handles encryption of your SSD, you can say bye-bye to anything on your SSD. Its gone, all of it. Time machine works great, but its not an excuse for such a volatile internal storage. If the point of encrypting the internal storage via a hardware solution was the idea, then time machine would be a bit pointless since it doesn't (to my knowledge) use T2's encryption, and by default isn't even encrypted, which seems like quite a security problem if someone were to nab your time machine backup, since it contains a full copy of the machine's disk.

 

Older macs used a System Management Controller or SMC, and it handled a fair amount of tasks, like power management, and although you couldn't program one off the shelf, you could desolder one from a donor board, and put it on the one you're fixing. They weren't specifically tied to the rest of the hardware, and they did not handle disk encryption.

 

Apple HAS documented that data recovery on a T2 mac is possible, however is requires that the machine be at least somewhat working. And in the event of a T2 failure, you're not going to get anywhere. T2 handles really basic but important stuff, like powering up the board's voltage rails.

 

In Rossmann's video, the customer was told by Apple that the mac had suffered severe liquid damage, which voided their warranty, and Rossmann shows is clearly not the case.

 

 

So because the T2 chip failed, and apple refuses to fix the faulty board, the customer has now lost all their data and needs a logic board replacement. Rossmann cannot fix this board, or any others with a similar failure.

 

What does this mean for the consumer of such products?

 

This means they have even less repair options for failures like this, and increased points of fatal failure.

 

On older macs, you could pull the SSD and put it into a new machine, or replace the logic board, and all would be as you left it.

 

On the newer but pre-T2 macs, the SSDs were almost always soldered, but a breakout point existed to connect to the soldered SSD and recover data.

 

But on these ones, not only has T2 locked out data recovery, it has also locked out a lot of repairs on the system that would have been possible before. Apple has essentially forced the consumer to go to them, and only them for repairs. And they don't really do component level repairs, usually just board replacement, as each unit is treated as a whole, like the fiasco with Linus's imac. This means you could need a new board at Apple instead of maybe just a new SMC, which would cost a fraction of the price to repair as a third party shop such as Rossmann's than a board replacement would.

 

Apple's fighting hard against consumer and third party repair, and personally, I think it needs to stop. I work at an independent repair shop, and I've already gotten fed up with mac repairs. They're always so much more annoying and expensive to repair, but changes like T2 could change "annoying" to "impossible"

 

also its late and I typed this entire article on my cell phone so if something's not quite right, sorry, I might be changing some stuff up if someone points something out, or I feel like it >~<

[mr moose]

Irretrievable data and being at the mercy of apple for all repairs is just another reason never to buy such a computer.    Plenty of more than adequate alternatives out there.

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

10 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Time machine works great, but its not an excuse for such a volatile internal storage. If the point of encrypting the internal storage via a hardware solution was the idea, then time machine would be a bit pointless since it doesn't (to my knowledge) use T2's encryption, and by default isn't even encrypted,

As far as I'm aware, T2 encryption is just FileVault. This same encryption protocol is applied to encrypted Time Machine backups and can be restored from by entering a password to decrypt the disk. Encrypting your backups is not the default setting however, you have to go into settings to enable it. 

 

On a side note: Having the T2 chip is not something I look forward to when I upgrade my MacBook. 

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

As far as I'm aware, T2 encryption is just FileVault. This same encryption protocol is applied to encrypted Time Machine backups and can be restored from by entering a password to decrypt the disk. Encrypting your backups is not the default setting however, you have to go into settings to enable it. 

Why do they encrypt the internal drive by default but not the backup?  I can see pros and cons to either, it's just the inconsistency that strikes me as a bit odd.

[scallop]

The fact that they have to replace the entire logic board is, to me, the most annoying part of Apple's computers.

 

I have a 2016 MacBook Pro and I had a problem which required them to replace the board. They actually replaced it with the wrong board, it didn't have the same GPU on it.

 

God it was so annoying having to explain to the geniuses that they goofed.

[captain_to_fire]

It's hard to be a Mac fan nowadays. I miss the glory days of 2009-2015 which I think is the glory days of the MacBook especially the 2011 MacBook Air with Sandy Bridge chips.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Why do they encrypt the internal drive by default but not the backup?  I can see pros and cons to either, it's just the inconsistency that strikes me as a bit odd.

The internal drive is only encrypted by default because the T2 chip allows for OTF encryption with no performance penalty. On any other MacBook the drives are not encrypted by default because the CPU has to encrypt all the data being writen to a drive. Turning on encryption on backup drives, which are usually USB 3.0 HDDs or network attached 5400rpm drives, can seriously lengthen backup times which are already long enough. 

[vanished]

15 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

On a side note: Having the T2 chip is not something I look forward to when I upgrade my MacBook. 

I can't help but point out this is exactly the core point of the video.  People can whine all they want (and more often than not when it comes to Apple they don't even do that much) but ultimately all that matters at the end of the day is if they buy it or not, and if they do, there's no reason for Apple to change, and you have to accept whatever experience you get at that point because you went in fully informed and knew what you were getting.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

but ultimately all that matters at the end of the day is if they buy it or not, and if they do, there's no reason for Apple to change

It’s too bad for my wallet that nobody else can legally make a laptop that runs macOS. 

[captain_to_fire]

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s too bad for my wallet that nobody else can legally make a laptop that runs macOS. 

Tbh I want macOS to stay with Apple and no other OEM should touch it. For one, PC OEMs have a nasty habit of bundling proprietary bloatware as well as trial software on their Windows laptops (looking at you Dell with your McAfee live safe trial, et.al). That's why when buying a Windows laptop that isn't a Surface, it's always a good practice to reinstall a fresh copy of Windows 10 then wipe all the bloatware preinstalled.

 

With macOS, it is bundled with programs you'll actually use and it's not trial software like iWork (Pages, Numbers, Keynote), iMovie and Garage Band. What's nice is that you can drag those programs to Trash if you don't like them there, or reinstall them from the Mac App Store if a person wants it back.

[AkatsukiKun]

I think Macs are designed well*, if it works it works, but when shit hits the fan, it will hit the fan and shit itself again.

Well a part of me hopes it doesn't happen to people but that's a big oof from me.

[desertcomputer]

Well, was going grab a macbook when my current laptop is dead. After the shitty keyboard and this, windows based laptop is only option for me.

 

Linux would be great, but at this stage some software just don't play well or work at all.

[Guest]

And THAT is exactly why I REFUSE to own any Apple stuff.

 

Their customer policy and many other things which are highly "not OK!" in my book of good practices.

[Ja50n]

I miss the old days when the big complaint against Apple products was that they were arguably overpriced...

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s too bad for my wallet that nobody else can legally make a laptop that runs macOS. 

Being cheaper would be the only benefit,  if they tried to run it on more varied hardware and have different companies start producing products with it, it would very likely end up losing the edge it has over windows. 

 

 

 

 

[Ja50n]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Being cheaper would be the only benefit,  if they tried to run it on more varied hardware and have different companies start producing products with it, it would very likely end up losing the edge it has over windows. 

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of great Hackintosh builds, though!

[Master Disaster]

Please just watch this before reading anything or commenting anything...

 

 

 

Im actually struggling to find the words to describe how this makes me feel. The fact they can wash their hands of a 3 month old machine for nothing, a machine that potentially cost $2,500 no less, and do so knowing that it's trash is mind boggling and absolutely disgusting.

 

Everything Louis says in the last few minutes is entirely true, Apple customers have no one but themselves to blame. This sets a dangerous precedent for the future of Apple machines, and guess what, he told you so.

[Bcat00]

This is why I won’t buy MacBooks or iPads. They’re just not that great. I do own a iPhone though because I only want a phone that works and nothing more in terms of needs.

[iamdarkyoshi]

8 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

no wonder older macbooks that are supported by the latest macOS version hold their value so well ._.

Look at the 17in models...

 

I hear they're finally refreshing this lineup though

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Bcat00 said:

This is why I won’t buy MacBooks or iPads. They’re just not that great. I do own a iPhone though because I only want a phone that works and nothing more in terms of needs.

Spoiler

What about this one? It seems to satisfy your basic need ^o^

[iamdarkyoshi]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

1280p kinda sucks now though, LOL

Better than the 1366x768 TN every other notebook on the market has since 1600x900 is too uncommon and 1920x1080 needs windows scaling to make the UI big enough for the average market

 

I'll use 1080p at 14in with native scaling all day long but like

 

ugh modern laptops haven't gotten anywhere but more annoying to change hard drives on and more plastic-ey

 

I'm sticking with my 1080p IPS T430...

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Ja50n said:

There are plenty of great Hackintosh builds, though!

 

Yes, but all of them have a very narrow choice of hardware.  If Apple had to start verifying macOS for all hardware and had to support older hardware in all updates it would fast run into the same issues as windows. 

[Guest]

It’s a Mac with a T2 chip there’s nothing wrong with that. If you can afford one, you sure as hell can afford to backup your drive, and a case for that matter. 
 

Both are less than a tenth of the price of a MacBook. Guess what, Apple has iCloud storage, some free, you never even have to worry about updating your backup. 
 

If you’ve seriously gotten to the point where you’ve lost data because the drive in your computer crashes, or the logic board fails, this is 2019, it really is your own fault. 
 

Now Apple not replacing the logic board under warranty for a broken T2 chip is their fault completely and unacceptable end of story. The board should be replaced under warranty. 

[DeScruff]

5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Why do they encrypt the internal drive by default but not the backup?  I can see pros and cons to either, it's just the inconsistency that strikes me as a bit odd.

My initial thoughts would be because a hard drive in your house is less likely to be stolen, then a laptop that frequents public places... and Apple doesn't want to deal with people who forgot or never wrote down whatever encryption key when they try to restore their data to a new Mac.

Probably all part of the frustration free environment Apple tries to create.

 

 

[yolosnail]

On a semi related note, I do find it amusing that everyone is wanting everything encrypted so the hackers can't steal their data, and don't want a backdoor for the government, but the same people cry when their data is lost because there is no way to recover their data when the hardware encryption fails