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"Five Eyes" issue statement against end-to-end encryption, demand backdoors

Delicieuxz
20 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Even if they ban encryption from popular messaging apps, so what? Criminals will just make their own and side load it on their phones.

They don't even have to make their own. There are already plenty of open source programs that does end to end encryption. It's like trying to ban Pythagoras theorem. It's public knowledge already. 

 

But you'd be a fool to think that this is about stopping criminals. It isn't. It's about spying on the average Joe. 

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Completely unnecessary, with a Warrant you can gain access to encrypted data by forcing the user to unlock it.

 

Here in the uk not giving up encryption keys can net you  upto  10 years.

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`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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10 hours ago, TrigrH said:

???

The way I read it is that the governments place: 

- criminals being able to communicate using encryption 

as a greater security risk than the:

- privacy and safety of the data of the people. (that encryption was designed to protect in the first place)

 

I can see both sides here I just don't agree with the decision, mainly due to the fact that backdoors only cause more harm than good, as they weaken encryption. 

 

Take DRMs like denuvo for example, sure it might keep the hackers/crackers at bay for a few weeks? but nothing is foolproof even encryption itself.

 

No, they place being able to monitor people and other nations over the privacy and security of people. This has nothing to do with criminals. Enforcing backdoors will catch as many criminals as the TSA does.

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1 hour ago, vorticalbox said:

Completely unnecessary, with a Warrant you can gain access to encrypted data by forcing the user to unlock it.

 

Here in the uk not giving up encryption keys can net you  upto  10 years.

So forgetting the encryption key nets you ten years? Kind of unfair there. I've a difficult enough time remembering the passwords of all my logins and containers without a potential decade sentence over my head. ?

 

In pure physical terms, it can be argued that police possession of encrypted data still constitutes possession. Intelligible or not should not be relevant.

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Time to break out the long wave radio to send my brother memes. He only lives 2 miles away but better be safe than sorry eh.

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Everytime

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of course FiveEyes is against encryption.. its a group people whos sole purpose is to spy on its own people, is anybody really surprised by this?

i think the biggest surprise is they actually made a statement at all

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It's nice how they're effectively pushing for open source software. Sure these draconian ideas could eventually become laws that restrict companies but since we're basically in an era of a distributed internet I sincerely wish them luck with banning opensource encryption. Not to mention there's always offline ways of trading keys and at that point the only thing they can hope for is to somehow ban/break math which (even in Australia) is completely impossible.

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It's legislation from people who genuinely believe that the internet is a series of tubes.

 

But then again I'm not sure I would have trusted Whatsapp, or similar, for communication if I was running a drugs empire anyway. Even if your phone is secure there is no guarantee the message recipients isn't free from malware.

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This will only end up hurting law-abiding citizens and helping the common criminal that would already be facing prison if caught.

 

I'll add more when I get home. 

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I think there is possibly a solution to this.

 

We demand backdoors as well, but only so long as they ALSO apply to every politician within those countries. Meaning that they cannot be exempt in any way shape or form.

 

Oh look, end to end encryption and online privacy just became law.

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5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

We demand backdoors as well, but only so long as they ALSO apply to every politician within those countries. Meaning that they cannot be exempt in any way shape or form.

I wouldn't mind a declassification of all sensitive materials concerning every gov't... 

 

Hey, if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide, right? 

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1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

I wouldn't mind a declassification of all sensitive materials concerning every gov't... 

 

Hey, if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide, right? 

There is plenty of legitimate fear in releasing sensitive government material though.    Not saying private citizens should lose their privacy, just that there is a definite need for security within government (at least until we have a single world government and everyone works together).

 

Also this concept that if you'd trade off privacy for safety it is the same as not having/deserving either is bollocks.  Everything is a compromise when you live in a community.  On every scale.   Sometimes its necessary and sometimes its not.   You aren't allowed to walk into a bank wearing a helmet for good reason. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

I wouldn't mind a declassification of all sensitive materials concerning every gov't... 

 

Hey, if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide, right? 

Exactly.

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is plenty of legitimate fear in releasing sensitive government material though.    Not saying private citizens should lose their privacy, just that there is a definite need for security within government (at least until we have a single world government and everyone works together).

 

Also this concept that if you'd trade off privacy for safety it is the same as not having/deserving either is bollocks.  Everything is a compromise when you live in a community.  On every scale.   Sometimes its necessary and sometimes its not.   You aren't allowed to walk into a bank wearing a helmet for good reason. 

The point of the sentiment is that government wants all the privacy it can get while completely refusing to accept the idea that private citizens should absolutely enjoy the same protection, barring mitigating circumstances (which is what search warrants are for).

 

The point of the statement "okay, but only if it applies to you too" is that it exposes the complete and utter hypocrisy of government.

 

Personally, I agree that all private citizens should have a right to privacy. I also absolutely believe that anyone elected to office should lose ALL right to privacy as a result of the increase in power and authority they receive.

 

Don't like it? Don't run for office. It's a voluntary job. You're asking your fellow citizens to give you more authority over their daily lives. I think it's only fair that, as a result of this request, that they have increased authority to look into your daily life upon your increase in authority.

 

After all, nothing to hide, nothing to fear right?

 

Edit: I also think that corruption charges should come with a life sentence without parole. Asking for an increase in power and authority over your fellow man should also necessitate an increase in punishment for abuse of authority.

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3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Exactly.

The point of the sentiment is that government wants all the privacy it can get while completely refusing to accept the idea that private citizens should absolutely enjoy the same protection, barring mitigating circumstances (which is what search warrants are for).

 

The point of the statement "okay, but only if it applies to you too" is that it exposes the complete and utter hypocrisy of government.

 

Personally, I agree that all private citizens should have a right to privacy. I also absolutely believe that anyone elected to office should lose ALL right to privacy as a result of the increase in power and authority they receive.

 

Don't like it? Don't run for office. It's a voluntary job. You're asking your fellow citizens to give you more authority over their daily lives. I think it's only fair that, as a result of this request, that they have increased authority to look into your daily life upon your increase in authority.

 

After all, nothing to hide, nothing to fear right?

That's fair, I just see the statement so often used in absolutes to justify any ideal one might carry.  There doesn't appear to be much thought given to things like how important it is for security agencies to be able to keep their intelligence work secure (we don't need china working out who our spies are).  I imagine a fair amount of government work has to remain private.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is plenty of legitimate fear in releasing sensitive government material though.    Not saying private citizens should lose their privacy, just that there is a definite need for security within government (at least until we have a single world government and everyone works together).

We have laws and amendments that protect our privacy from the gov't. We have warrants to file. We don't need to lose encryption or have backdoors. Any time there's an "other" ask yourself who wins most. In this day and age, this abolition of encryption only helps corporations monitor users. This protects no one. Not one person, following the law, will be protected by this. It's like asking for locks to be made with master keys. 

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That's fair, I just see the statement so often used in absolutes to justify any ideal one might carry.  There doesn't appear to be much thought given to things like how important it is for security agencies to be able to keep their intelligence work secure (we don't need china working out who our spies are).  I imagine a fair amount of government work has to remain private.

Oh I agree.

 

My problem is that our government appears to be completely fucking incompetent when it comes to just about fucking everything.

 

Edit: I should specify, I mean the administrators. As usual with any human organization, it seems that those tasked with organizing an organization, will always be the most incompetent or corrupt members of a given organization.

 

I've still not found a solution to that particular problem.

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4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

We have laws and amendments that protect our privacy from the gov't. We have warrants to file. We don't need to lose encryption or have backdoors. Any time there's an "other" ask yourself who wins most. In this day and age, this abolition of encryption only helps corporations monitor users. This protects no one. Not one person, following the law, will be protected by this. It's like asking for locks to be made with master keys. 

  Hide contents

TSA locks are fucking awful, and allow ZERO security for belongings. But muh security!

 

I wasn't talking about private/personal encryption, I was questioning the idea that government could be completely open and still function to provide safety and security to the country.

 

EDIT: the concept that politicians shouldn't have extra rights to privacy that citizens don't get is absolutely fair enough.  

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I wasn't talking about private/personal encryption, I was questioning the idea that government could be completely open and still function to provide safety and security to the country.

As @Trik'Stari said, we shouldn't be giving up our rights to privacy. If you want me to give up my right to privacy, you better be damn sure I'm going to force the gov't to give up theirs. There's no reason for us to give up ours for "criminals" only for us to be treated like criminals. 

 

I may have nothing to fear, but that doesn't mean I'm not hiding my info. 

 

I can [already] see these backdoors being used for increased criminal activity. 

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that means that they are following the middle east approach ?
give government access to all data or the service will go down in the country ....
 

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Well when we raid Area 51, we'll have the alien tech they've kept from us for years and they won't be able to even imagine spying on us with that shit.

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Uh they can eat shit for all I care, you might as well give them copies to the key of your house at this point

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On 8/1/2019 at 7:50 PM, AkatsukiKun said:

Uh they can eat shit for all I care, you might as well give them copies to the key of your house at this point

Wait they don't ask for that? Oh crap gotta change the locks!.../s

I live in misery USA. my timezone is central daylight time which is either UTC -5 or -4 because the government hates everyone.

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