Ford Demos F-150 Electric Prototype, Has it Pull a 1 Million Pound Train

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

My Ram 2500 has spark plugs. It’s a Cummins 6.7 turbo i6. I’ve only put diesel fuel in it.

 

And that’s actually one of two common systems to start an engine. The other is glow plugs.

That's odd - I've never heard of a Diesel engine having a spark plug.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Characteristics

Quote

The characteristics of a diesel engine are^[132]

• Compression ignition: Due to almost adiabatic compression, the fuel ignites without any ignition-initiating apparatus such as spark plugs.

Quote

• Fuel with high ignition performance: As diesel engines solely rely on compression ignition, fuel with high ignition performance (cetane rating) is ideal for proper engine operation, fuel with a good knocking resistance (octane rating), e.g. petrol, is suboptimal for diesel engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glowplug

Quote

Diesel engines, unlike gasoline engines, do not use spark plugs to induce combustion.

Emphasis mine in all cases. Do you have a spec sheet or parts link that shows spark plugs for your 2500?

 

I believe that it is a Diesel. But perhaps people are just calling the glow plugs "spark plugs" informally?

[Inversion]

While I'm sure there will be people complaining about how the range will suck and that it's hard to get charge in the middle of nowhere, it does show that Ford has managed to address one of the biggest problems with a lot of electric vehicles which is that they can't tow. There have been range extending hybrids for a while now that have been about the size of a typical people carrier that can tow a caravan (max tow weight of about 1500kg) but these hybrids that have electric motors and diesel generators have only been able to tow 500kg. This shows it'll be possible to continue towing when everything has to go electric.

[Drak3]

11 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Do you have a spec sheet or parts link that shows spark plugs for your 2500?

After some digging, you were correct that diesels do not use spark plugs in their factory condition.

 

However, some Cummins engines, 6.7L included, are easily converted to natural gas, which does require spark plugs.

 

And I already know my truck was not left stock by the previous owner ( thankfully no stupid deletes).

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

After some digging, you were correct that diesels do not use spark plugs in their factory condition.

 

However, some Cummins engines, 6.7L included, are easily converted to natural gas, which does require spark plugs.

 

And I already know my truck was not left stock by the previous owner ( thankfully no stupid deletes).

Natural gas powered - interesting. Makes sense that it would require spark plugs though.

[Drak3]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Natural gas powered - interesting. Makes sense that it would require spark plugs though.

Not really unique here in Idaho. Though typically older commercial vehicles, dual fuel vehicles are something our competent diesel heads know about.

 

Sometimes technically triple fuel, as propane to NG and vice versa is not a hard conversion.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The negativity and skepticism in this thread is unbelievable.   Technology doesn't develop perfectly overnight. Yes, earlier versions of all electric trucks will be far from perfect but, over time, will get better. When horseless carriages first came out, they weren't as practical as horses when it came to range, fuel availability, etc. People were skeptical about them, too. But they had their advantages, too, and eventually developed to where they have pretty much replaced horses. But it all has to start somewhere. The proposed hybrid and all electric F150s are but two of those starts.

 

In my lifetime, railroad locomotives have gone from almost all steam to all diesel electric (or all electric) with steam now being a historic novelty.

 

The new hybrid and all electric F150s will be best suited for people who mostly drive to and from work, the store, etc. in urban areas. The same will be true for most commercial usage in urban areas.

 

Large long haul heavy trucks will most like use a battery swap system like the one Tesla has been fooling around with. That probably will be practical only for fleets. Given enough time (I'm talking decades here), the technology will develop to the point where battery swaps will no longer be needed.

 

EVs currently have a limited user base due mostly to limited range. But the current ones have far more range than the earlier ones did. It's just a matter of time before the range will be sufficent for most people. Hybrids are a good compromise for limited range. Most people will drive less than 100 miles a day most of the time and will need longer range less than a handful of times a year; a hybrid will fulfill that need. Most of the time, they can benefit from using electricity only but still get the benefits fossil fuels can give them when they need  it.

 

I know a couple (sadly, divorced now) who owned Priuses. He had an all electric one and she had a hybrid. Both had long commutes everyday. He never drove anywhere near the full range of his all electric Prius in a day (the only reason he still doesn't have it is it was totalled when some idiot plowed into it; he now drives a Chevy Volt and is happy with it). She replaced her high mileage hybrid Prius with a new one a few years after the divorce and moved from CA to TN in it. She was happy with her Prius.

 

The range of EVs is currently limited but there are already many people who can live within that range. Range will improve over tmes. In the meantime, hybrids can dramatically increase that range when needed.

 

Electric vehicles polute less than vehicles powered by ICEs ("Infernal" Combustion Engines). Even though the power plants that generate the electricity EVs run on emit polution, the amount per vehicle is still somewhat less. Someday, as solar and wind generation improves (it already has come a long ways), that will be reversed and we will no longer be dependent on fossil fuels.

 

The three things keeping me from buying an electric or hybrid F150 strat with I have put only 60k miles on it in ten years and it's been in the shop only once (and that was a little over a week ago to replace the window motor). I should be easily able to put another ten yearss on that truck for far, far less than it would cost to replace it with a new one. Another reason is I simply do not have enough power available where I live to recharge the batteries overnight. The third reason is I do take long trips from time to time. While a hybrid would make it possible for me to make those trips, I would be depending too much on the ICE to make the electric side worth having.

 

Even though the technology is still in its infancy, trucks, ranging from light pickups to class 8 rigs, will eventually benefit from electric power and even completely replace ICE trucks. It's just a matter of time. Will I live long enough to see it? Considering I've been around for a little over seven decades, I hope not! I'm just too darned old already. But most of you just might.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, floofer said:

Are there cars with one of these built-in?

Yes, they are around 100+ ton and only run on rails, I think they call them trains 

[leadeater]

56 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

The range of EVs is currently limited but there are already many people who can live within that range. Range will improve over tmes. In the meantime, hybrids can dramatically increase that range when needed.

Person in my team at work drives the full range of his Leaf every day for the trip to and from work (45% each way), then plugs it in and charges it over night for near free as the power company he uses has next to free rates between 11pm and 7am. Power companies actually have problems with the night time load being too low compared to day time and have to load shed and ramp down power production, easier to encourage more actual usage at night.

[Sauron]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes, they are around 100+ ton and only run on rails, I think they call them trains 

That's what I was thinking too lol

[justpoet]

Honestly, trucks are the best spot to see electric motors evolve.  They have full torque at all rpm, so from a dead stop included.  The typical reason most hybrid or electric vehicles don't allow towing is because of the combination of battery weight, cooling of the motor and pack, and because hybrids tend to use CVTs which all blow up under heavy load 'cause they suck as a transmission.  That's a problem in a low to the ground low power to weight ratio commuter vehicle.  It isn't a problem in a full size truck with plenty of air flow under it and suspension weight handling to spare.  I wouldn't be surprised to see trucks do the hybrid thing where they're full electric drive, but have a small motor to charge the system for additional range or limp mode (torque limited) driving.  We'll probably see it done with smaller motors as "torque assist" or "city mode" electric only driving before that though, which is basically what the KERS is in F1.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Person in my team at work drives the full range of his Leaf every day for the trip to and from work (45% each way), then plugs it in and charges it over night for near free as the power company he uses has next to free rates between 11pm and 7am. Power companies actually have problems with the night time load being too low compared to day time and have to load shed and ramp down power production, easier to encourage more actual usage at night.

Phil Bishop or rather has one. I know where some taxpayer funding goes. The Bishopmobile.

[leadeater]

39 minutes ago, floofer said:

Phil Bishop or rather has one

Who?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Who?

It might seem stupid getting the name wrong when it's on the car and I feel stupid. Chris Bishop. Phil Bishop was one of my lectures at Otago. 

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, floofer said:

It might seem stupid getting the name wrong when it's on the car and I feel stupid. Chris Bishop. Phil Bishop was one of my lectures at Otago. 

Haha I was actually joking that he wasn't worth knowing, it's pure gold that you actually got it wrong and I didn't notice either.

[CarlBar]

5 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

The problem I foresee is dickheads drag racing and burning through battery packs health faster than others, meaning the total pool of packs has to be replenished more often.

 

From what I understand, the harder you run these things the more quickly the battery packs wear out.

 

Currently you pay for fuel by the litre or gallon. You'd obviously pay for new battery packs by the electrical equivalent, (KW/h of capacity in it). When a fuel station charges you for your fuel they're also charging you for the cost of maintaining the pumps, pipework, and fuel tanks., amongst other things. SO cost of replacing defective or burned out cells would be included in that charge. Likely such a system would need the pack to actually be several small packs so you can replace only the capacity you need. Another good innovation would be to start building houses with their own high capacity power bank. That way the grid can use it for load balancing when your not drawing heavily on it and you can use it to fast charge an EV at home.

 

An alternative to physically swapping the packs would be using some kind of medium that uses a liquid input and produces a liquid output. Then all the fuel station has to do is empty the used material and top you off with fresh. And every few changes you swap the anode/cathode for new ones.

 

I'm not aware of any battery tech that fits that last one with any notable energy density, (standard car batteries completely chew up the terminals in a single cycle), but it would make life much easier for everyone.

[Chett_Manly]

12 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Pure electric work trucks are just a marketing stunt until somewhere in the 5-10X increase in battery density, and there's nothing on the horizon that's looking viable for those batteries yet. Electric-Drive Hybrids are where this really, really should have gone almost a decade ago. GM so badly botched it up after they got the Volt's drive train working. That's the actual future of electric drive vehicles, but it needs to be put in the right spots for it to work. 

Why 5-10x? I think you, and the battery swap people, are dramatically overestimating the daily mileage a work truck needs. If you are doing 5-6 jobs a day in the local area, you still aren't racking up much more than a 100 miles. Overnight charging and a range of 300 miles will likely suit the needs of most light duty truck jobs. You are going from your home/office to your work site to supply pick up back to a work site, back to home/office. That's most light duty truck jobs, its not interstate travel. 

 

And while no technology is going to grant us a 5x-10x increase in capacity anytime soon, graphene ball technology may well give us a 40-50% increase in capacity in the next few years, enabling Ford to sell an electric F-150 with a range above 500 miles, which also enabling even faster charging, possibly even giving you the ability to charge over 100 miles per 10 minutes with an almost empty battery.

 

 

[BuckGup]

Not really that impressive IMO. Trains have slack in the couplings for a reason. Otherwise even locomotives wouldn't be able to have enough friction to even move a small amount of weight. Friction is another part. Trains are made to have super low rolling resistance, steel on steel has a super low mew value. There have been people that have pulled 500,000+lb planes with their teeth because of the low friction. I would be more impressed seeing a demo of the truck correcting a fish tail or resonant wag by controlling the motors independently. It would be like anti lock braking and differentials had a super baby 

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Chett_Manly said:

Why 5-10x? I think you, and the battery swap people, are dramatically overestimating the daily mileage a work truck needs. If you are doing 5-6 jobs a day in the local area, you still aren't racking up much more than a 100 miles. Overnight charging and a range of 300 miles will likely suit the needs of most light duty truck jobs. You are going from your home/office to your work site to supply pick up back to a work site, back to home/office. That's most light duty truck jobs, its not interstate travel. 

 

And while no technology is going to grant us a 5x-10x increase in capacity anytime soon, graphene ball technology may well give us a 40-50% increase in capacity in the next few years, enabling Ford to sell an electric F-150 with a range above 500 miles, which also enabling even faster charging, possibly even giving you the ability to charge over 100 miles per 10 minutes with an almost empty battery.

 

 

Back when my Dad was doing commercial carpet jobs, long trips from Sacramento to the bay area (San Francisco being pretty notable), and even over to Nevada weren't terribly uncommon. Most often, this involves hauling material to the job site, and hauling back all the pull-up for later disposal. The weight also tends to vary greatly depending on the size of the job, and the material in question. (Specialty rubber backed carpet used in care homes can weigh nearly 1000 lbs a roll.)

 

On top of it, Dad is not a slow and easygoing driver by any extent of the imagination. 90 MPH tends to be the norm if he can do it.

 

I don't doubt Fords ability to make a truck that can take a beating (my Dad's Ford F250 with the V10 is 18 years old and over 280K miles). Though one shouldn't underestimate the abuse that work trucks can be put through as well.

[SenKa]

Ford tried this before back in the day, it failed horridly. I hope history doesn't repeat itself, as the idea of an electric small-ish pickup truck really does interest me.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV

[SenKa]

As to the topic of small electric pickups, I think they are brilliant for the kind of work small trucks are put through (atleast in my area).

 

Here, small work trucks are driven very short distances, often hauling quite a bit of stuff, with a lot of slow roads and congested traffic, and if electric truck were readily available and competitively priced they could make a ton of sense! I may electric swap my early-'97 Tacoma some day in the future, but the stock motor has held up without fault for 240k miles and may be good for 500k if it was treated well by the previous owner.