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Upgrading laptops with CNVio WiFi adapters (eg Intel AC 9560) to newer Intel WiFi 6 (AX200) WiFi 6e (AX210) WiFi 7 (BE200) cards

Yesterday I trying to change WiFi card from intel AC9560 to AX201 and It's not work for me. My Laptop is Acer AN715-51 running on Intel I7-9750H.

 

but on Acer AN715-51 series they have some sub-model that came with intel AX, I'm so frustrating about that.

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Ill be trying an AX201 in my new MSI P75 Creator sometime in the next few weeks.

This has a 9th gen CPU and CNVio slot although it has a CNVio1 card in it now.

I have looked quite a bit today but there seems to be no online doc comparing CNVio1 and CNVio2.

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On 12/6/2019 at 2:04 AM, ShiroACK said:

Yesterday I trying to change WiFi card from intel AC9560 to AX201 and It's not work for me. My Laptop is Acer AN715-51 running on Intel I7-9750H.

 

but on Acer AN715-51 series they have some sub-model that came with intel AX, I'm so frustrating about that.

You sure that sub-model doesn't use the AX200?

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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On 12/10/2019 at 4:49 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

You sure that sub-model doesn't use the AX200?

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/99446/intel-wireless-ac-9560.html

 

It is CNVio BUT generation 1 and the AX201 is CNVio generation 2. I have not found any documentation on the difference or compatibility. Intel seems to have released a product with the intention of consumers figure out the compatibility themselves.

 

EDIT:

Even Intel themselves put the 9560 and AX201 on the same while never even mentioning that CNVio2 even exists. They very deliberately avoid telling you which CPU generation works with witch CNVio generation:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-io/wireless-networking.html

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3 hours ago, nosirrahx said:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/99446/intel-wireless-ac-9560.html

 

It is CNVio BUT generation 1 and the AX201 is CNVio generation 2. I have not found any documentation on the difference or compatibility. Intel seems to have released a product with the intention of consumers figure out the compatibility themselves.

 

EDIT:

Even Intel themselves put the 9560 and AX201 on the same while never even mentioning that CNVio2 even exists. They very deliberately avoid telling you which CPU generation works with witch CNVio generation:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-io/wireless-networking.html

I was referring to:

Quote

Acer AN715-51 series they have some sub-model that came with intel AX

The sub-model may use an AX200 rather than an AX201.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am doing my install today but you can check out my communication with Intel about CNVio and CNVio2 here:

https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D70P000006dg55/cnvio-vs-cnvio2-documentation?language=en_US

 

Needless to say there were not even remotely helpful with my request for information. Their final comment seems to be kind of an F-off.

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The upgrade did not work and I can confirm the same behavior. With the AX201 CNVio2 module installed the laptop does not respond to the power button being pressed.

 

This is worse than a failure to post issue, this incompatibility is on such a deep level that the power on sequence is disrupted.

For the record this CPU is the i9-9880H in a MSI P75 creator laptop.


If I am understanding this correctly it seems like 8th and 9th gen mobile CPUs are only compatible with CNVio while CNVio2 requires a 10th gen mobile CPU (not sure about desktop). Looking around the wed I am seeing a few laptops with a preinstalled AX201 and so far all of them also come with 10th gen mobile CPUs.

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Yeah its weird, it seems they launched the AX201 with literally ZERO compatible hardware to plug it into.  Why even bother?

 

Plus now there is talk of WiFi 6e, so I may end up needing to upgrade again before I even get a WiFi 6 AP.

 

Still, the AX200 was cheap and performs well enough on WiFi 5.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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23 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Yeah its weird, it seems they launched the AX201 with literally ZERO compatible hardware to plug it into.  Why even bother?

 

I am not sure if there is a difference with desktop CPUs but certainly AX201 is for system integrators working with 10th gen mobile CPUs only. Their support seems to either be lying about this incompatibility or Intel left them in the dark. I posted a pretty snarky reply accusing Intel of intentionally selling a device that wont be compatible with anything to the public without giving any warning and so far support seems to be ignoring my post.

The messed up part is that if you are on the other interface (PCIe) you can use the AX200 on pretty much any laptop from the 7th gen on up. I have done this upgrade on multiple laptops and even my NUC8i7HVK.

I have a feeling that the punch to the gut that AMD delivered to Intel may be responsible for a lot of changed plans and miscommunication.

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22 hours ago, nosirrahx said:

I am not sure if there is a difference with desktop CPUs but certainly AX201 is for system integrators working with 10th gen mobile CPUs only. Their support seems to either be lying about this incompatibility or Intel left them in the dark. I posted a pretty snarky reply accusing Intel of intentionally selling a device that wont be compatible with anything to the public without giving any warning and so far support seems to be ignoring my post.

The messed up part is that if you are on the other interface (PCIe) you can use the AX200 on pretty much any laptop from the 7th gen on up. I have done this upgrade on multiple laptops and even my NUC8i7HVK.

I have a feeling that the punch to the gut that AMD delivered to Intel may be responsible for a lot of changed plans and miscommunication.

I'm still kinda baffled how my laptop came with a CNVio1 card but the AX200 works in it.  I was under the impression you had CNVio or PCIe, but apparently its possible to support both on the same socket.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'm still kinda baffled how my laptop came with a CNVio1 card but the AX200 works in it.  I was under the impression you had CNVio or PCIe, but apparently its possible to support both on the same socket.

My understanding is that if you put a PICe card in a CNVio slot that you will either lose wifi or bluetooth. The one time I tried this I had that result.

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5 minutes ago, nosirrahx said:

My understanding is that if you put a PICe card in a CNVio slot that you will either lose wifi or bluetooth. The one time I tried this I had that result.

Everything works fine on mine.  Bluetooth certainly should as that I believe is always over USB regardless.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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Hey guys. I have the same laptop as nosirrahx and my card has gone bad. I have the opportunity to send it back. But I found this thread and will try a few cards listed hear.

 

Intel finally said that only certain cards work with certain architecture: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html

 

I hope that the port can support the ax200 or the killer 1650 but in the killer amazon store page it said that it is not a replacement for the 9560...

 

Any suggestions guys?

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All I know is I replaced the 9560 and it worked, much to my surprise.

There's probably no benefit over the 9560 without a WiFi 6 router/Access Point but I wanted to do it anyway.

From this forum, I've seen nothing but problems with Killer WiFi cards, I don't think they are worth the extra cost.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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On 1/15/2020 at 10:54 AM, Alex Atkin UK said:

All I know is I replaced the 9560 and it worked, much to my surprise.

There's probably no benefit over the 9560 without a WiFi 6 router/Access Point but I wanted to do it anyway.

From this forum, I've seen nothing but problems with Killer WiFi cards, I don't think they are worth the extra cost.

So you are using an ax200?

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16 hours ago, Epydemic said:

So you are using an ax200?

Yes.  Although it can depend on your laptop manufacturer, some only whitelist certain models, mine is ASUS who have no restrictions.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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Folks, I have an MSI GS75 that I tried to upgrade with the Killer AX1650 with all the same problems as everyone else.   

 

AX1650 doesn't show up in Device Manager, tried all the regular stuff....Update BIOS, Reload Drivers, etc....

Also bought the AX201 to try it and the machine won't power on as others have found.

I'm hoping a future BIOS update from MSI will eventually come through for me.

 

Note:  I upgraded my wife's Dell Inspirion laptop from the AC9650 to the Killer AX1650 with no issue.  Didn't even have to load new drivers for it to work.  Tried the AX201 just to see and it would also not power on at all.

 

I will keep my eye out for any successful solutions for the GS75 and post back here.

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3 hours ago, xXRicohXx said:

Folks, I have an MSI GS75 that I tried to upgrade with the Killer AX1650 with all the same problems as everyone else.   

 

AX1650 doesn't show up in Device Manager, tried all the regular stuff....Update BIOS, Reload Drivers, etc....

Also bought the AX201 to try it and the machine won't power on as others have found.

I'm hoping a future BIOS update from MSI will eventually come through for me.

 

Note:  I upgraded my wife's Dell Inspirion laptop from the AC9650 to the Killer AX1650 with no issue.  Didn't even have to load new drivers for it to work.  Tried the AX201 just to see and it would also not power on at all.

 

I will keep my eye out for any successful solutions for the GS75 and post back here.

Its insanely frustrating that manufacturers wont tell you if their laptops support both CNVio and PCIe, or not.  I'd always assumed CNVio couldn't support PCIe until I tried it for myself and it worked.

Seems its entirely based on arbitrary decisions made during the design of the laptop PCB.  You'd think supporting both would make sense, more options to change SKUs later on if it can, but I guess not routing those extra traces may have benefits too.

 

Just seems utterly pointless having a socketed WiFi card if its not upwards compatible with new cards, they might as well have soldered the WiFi chip and saved money on the socket.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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The big issue I believe has to do with Intel scrambling to deal with pressure from AMD and literally losing track of CNVio1 VS. CNVio2 compatibility.

Look at what happens when you search for "CNVio2" on Intel's actual site:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.html?ws=text#q="CNVIO2"&t=All
 

At this time there is a grand total of 1 search result and all that is is a link to the AX201 page.

Intel support has still refused to address my reply BTW. I reported that there is a distinct incompatibility with easy to replicate conditions and all I got was crickets.

I bet this is more or less the same thing that happened when Intel told board partners to add PCIe 4.0 support only to pull that from their upcoming CPUs.

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On 1/24/2020 at 7:44 PM, nosirrahx said:

The big issue I believe has to do with Intel scrambling to deal with pressure from AMD and literally losing track of CNVio1 VS. CNVio2 compatibility.

Look at what happens when you search for "CNVio2" on Intel's actual site:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/search.html?ws=text#q="CNVIO2"&t=All
 

At this time there is a grand total of 1 search result and all that is is a link to the AX201 page.

Intel support has still refused to address my reply BTW. I reported that there is a distinct incompatibility with easy to replicate conditions and all I got was crickets.

I bet this is more or less the same thing that happened when Intel told board partners to add PCIe 4.0 support only to pull that from their upcoming CPUs.

Its kinda bizarre though, as I am yet to see a single implementation of the AX201 in a retail product.  These cards basically exist with seemingly ZERO compatibility with anything out there, old or new.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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On 1/25/2020 at 1:45 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

Its kinda bizarre though, as I am yet to see a single implementation of the AX201 in a retail product.  These cards basically exist with seemingly ZERO compatibility with anything out there, old or new.

New user here and probably might not be around much as I don't do a lot of hardware customizing/upgrading anymore, but the Surface Pro 7 uses the AX201. Although to be fair, given the all-on-board design of the Pros' it is most likely not a removable version. I have no idea if the Surface Laptop 3 also uses it. Next time I'm at the local Microsoft store I'll take a look.

 

HP's new Spectre x360 13 also uses AX201.

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2 hours ago, StLouisCPhT said:

New user here and probably might not be around much as I don't do a lot of hardware customizing/upgrading anymore, but the Surface Pro 7 uses the AX201. Although to be fair, given the all-on-board design of the Pros' it is most likely not a removable version. I have no idea if the Surface Laptop 3 also uses it. Next time I'm at the local Microsoft store I'll take a look.

 

HP's new Spectre x360 13 also uses AX201.

I'd expect so now, Intel were claiming the very latest CPUs have the WiFi 6 support in them that makes this work.

 

It was just very dumb of them to not make it absolutely clear that these cards DO NOT work with existing CPUs, at the time it was launched.  They were on the market for months before any CPUs supported them, although I guess the complication is its the grey market, as these are OEM parts so we aren't supposed to be able to get hold of them.

 

And were going to have to replace them all over again when WiFi 6E comes out. ?

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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On 1/25/2020 at 2:45 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

Its kinda bizarre though, as I am yet to see a single implementation of the AX201 in a retail product.  These cards basically exist with seemingly ZERO compatibility with anything out there, old or new.

They are easy to find but you have to know what CPU you are looking for. Gen 10 i7s have AX201 compatibility so if you go to a site like newegg and filter for laptops with gen 10 and AX wireless you can see that these do exist:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100006740 601343206 601333040

 

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11 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

It was just very dumb of them to not make it absolutely clear that these cards DO NOT work with existing CPUs, at the time it was launched.

I wish it didn't look this way but it sure looks like the tried and true marketing method of selling a cheap product that you know people are unlikely to return when it does not work.

The other part that pisses me off is that it is very clear that Intel has done literally nothing to inform their support of this incompatibility, literally nothing to specify incompatibility anywhere you can buy these and literally nothing in their own online documentation to specify compatibility outside of adding a '2' to the line where it mentions CNVio2.

These are the compatibility links for both the AX201 and AX 9560:

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html?productId=130293&localeCode=us_en
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html?productId=99446&localeCode=us_en

 

The info is identical to the point that to me at least Intel is directly implying that these 2 products are drop in compatible.

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On 1/29/2020 at 1:34 PM, nosirrahx said:

I wish it didn't look this way but it sure looks like the tried and true marketing method of selling a cheap product that you know people are unlikely to return when it does not work.

The other part that pisses me off is that it is very clear that Intel has done literally nothing to inform their support of this incompatibility, literally nothing to specify incompatibility anywhere you can buy these and literally nothing in their own online documentation to specify compatibility outside of adding a '2' to the line where it mentions CNVio2.

These are the compatibility links for both the AX201 and AX 9560:

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html?productId=130293&localeCode=us_en
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking.html?productId=99446&localeCode=us_en

 

The info is identical to the point that to me at least Intel is directly implying that these 2 products are drop in compatible.

Exactly, its why I bought one and then didn't believe the seller when they told me the reason it didn't work was incompatibility.  Turned out for once, the seller was right.

 

But then it gets even more confusing when the AX200 DID work, when everything you can find online says CNVIo sockets are only compatible with CNVIo cards, when clearly it depends on if the specific board vendor decided to include PCIe support or not.

You'd think the board vendors would be screaming from the rooftops that their socket supports everything, rather than the stock response I got from ASUS that they cannot comment on anything they haven't officially tested.  It flies in the face of PC history, where a big point is that you can upgrade parts that use standards compliant protocols.

Then again, I bet they'd say the same about a pre-built PC if you wanted to upgrade the GPU.  If it means they can sell you a whole new PC just to replace one part, then its win win for them.  Customer goodwill seems to have gone out the window these days, which is sad as I would have happily paid a premium to buy an AX200 from them directly if the option had been there.

Router:  Intel N100 (pfSense) WiFi6: Zyxel NWA210AX (1.7Gbit peak at 160Mhz)
WiFi5: Ubiquiti NanoHD OpenWRT (~500Mbit at 80Mhz) Switches: Netgear MS510TXUP, MS510TXPP, GS110EMX
ISPs: Zen Full Fibre 900 (~930Mbit down, 115Mbit up) + Three 5G (~800Mbit down, 115Mbit up)
Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

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