Why are so many people against consoles?

[TravisSolomon]

I think you need to have subscription in order to play games on the console unlike PC. but I can't be against the console as I love to play my games on the Xbox and PS 4.

[Duski]

5 hours ago, TravisSolomon said:

I think you need to have subscription in order to play games on the console unlike PC. but I can't be against the console as I love to play my games on the Xbox and PS 4.

You need a subscription only if you want to play multiplayer games. And it costs 60$ a year and you 2 games per month for free. Some of those games are really good. This year we got Detroit Become Human, Borderlands The Handsome Collection, For Honor, Hitman Complete Edition etc. 

[Sylvie]

On 7/21/2019 at 5:58 PM, Duski said:

 

people just want something to complain about. I don't enjoy most console games personally, but I don't really care if someone else does either. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 hours ago, TravisSolomon said:

I think you need to have subscription in order to play games on the console unlike PC. but I can't be against the console as I love to play my games on the Xbox and PS 4.

If the game is F2P or already has a subscription, the requirement is waived on the PS4.

[TrainFan475]

One of the many reasons I don't use a console Is because I can't get used to the controls!

[skywake]

On 7/23/2019 at 4:49 AM, Mira Yurizaki said:

People need to justify spending a lot of money.

True, but on all sides not just on PC. And even within a platform people will mindlessly defend one option over another because of time/money/emotion invested. Quite litterally what being a mindless fanboy is. When people have locked themselves into something they will naturally defend and justify that decision after the fact.

 

On 7/30/2019 at 3:39 AM, Zando Bob said:

I think the Wii does, and because the Wii U has the Wii chip it can too. I just don't remember if Nintendo enabled that or if it was homebrew, haven't booted my Wii U up in a bit because I've been consumed by Destiny 2 instead of my Zelda games. 

The Wii U litterally has a Wii built in for full backwards compatibility. But it's somewhat limited in what it can do and, officially, can't play Gamecube games. I assume because it lacks the memory card slots and Gamecube controller ports. They also stripped GC compatibility from all of the later versions of the Wii for the same reason. But it's definitely something that people have enabled via homebrew. Not sure if it's reading the discs themselves or off a HDD but.....

[Zando_]

3 hours ago, skywake said:

The Wii U litterally has a Wii built in for full backwards compatibility. But it's somewhat limited in what it can do and, officially, can't play Gamecube games. I assume because it lacks the memory card slots and Gamecube controller ports. They also stripped GC compatibility from all of the later versions of the Wii for the same reason. But it's definitely something that people have enabled via homebrew. Not sure if it's reading the discs themselves or off a HDD but.....

Yeah, I think they run ROMs off a USB drive or similar using homebrew apps built for that, I don't know if it can read off the discs or not. 

[Majinhoju]

To be fair the ps4 is playing AAA games 6 years after it's release.

[Duski]

31 minutes ago, Majinhoju said:

To be fair the ps4 is playing AAA games 6 years after it's release.

Exactly. The PS4 is still playing games like Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Far Cry 5, Resident Evil 2, Metro Exodus and will still play games being released next year.

[celerystruct]

I recently switched to pc gaming at the beginning of the year. Here is why I hate my PS4. I have a switch and I used to fanboy for Sony hard back during PS2 and up. 

 

So this is probably more of a rant about Sony and PS4 pro than about consoles in general.

 

I bought a PS4 pro which was marketed as a 4k console.

So naturally it should work on my 4K tv. When I hooked it up to my tv and set the output to 2160p rgb it worked fine for about 3 months before it stopped displaying anything.

I read that a fix was to lower the resolution to 1080p and once I did it displayed picture again. But then what's the point? I spent money for a 4k console and it can't go over 1080p.

One fix was to disable HDCP but that disables all streaming services like Netflix and the ability to play movies via Blu-ray discs.

 

Speaking of Blu-ray discs, how does the PS4 pro not come with a 4K Blu-ray player? You know Sony's own proprietary format?

 

So already I have a black piece of shit I paid $400 for that promised me 4K content and it can't display picture at that resolution and has no way of playing 4K Blu-rays.

As I look further in someone who owns an Xbox tells me PS4 can't run native 4k. Which was true. So again, what's the point of the PS4 pro?

 

tl;dr

I like consoles and pc but the PS4 pro is hot garbage

[Majinhoju]

I'm baffled as well why Sony didn't include 4k bluray on the Ps4 Pro given that bluray is a Sony format.

I'm still using a first gen ps4 for time being.  I'll likely skip the pro and wait for the ps5.  I have a Xbox One X for any console 4k gaming needs (as well as 4k bluray).

[SteveGrabowski0]

50 minutes ago, celerystruct said:

I recently switched to pc gaming at the beginning of the year. Here is why I hate my PS4. I have a switch and I used to fanboy for Sony hard back during PS2 and up. 

 

So this is probably more of a rant about Sony and PS4 pro than about consoles in general.

 

I bought a PS4 pro which was marketed as a 4k console.

So naturally it should work on my 4K tv. When I hooked it up to my tv and set the output to 2160p rgb it worked fine for about 3 months before it stopped displaying anything.

I read that a fix was to lower the resolution to 1080p and once I did it displayed picture again. But then what's the point? I spent money for a 4k console and it can't go over 1080p.

One fix was to disable HDCP but that disables all streaming services like Netflix and the ability to play movies via Blu-ray discs.

 

Speaking of Blu-ray discs, how does the PS4 pro not come with a 4K Blu-ray player? You know Sony's own proprietary format?

 

So already I have a black piece of shit I paid $400 for that promised me 4K content and it can't display picture at that resolution and has no way of playing 4K Blu-rays.

As I look further in someone who owns an Xbox tells me PS4 can't run native 4k. Which was true. So again, what's the point of the PS4 pro?

 

tl;dr

I like consoles and pc but the PS4 pro is hot garbage

Send it in and get it replaced? The warranty should be for a year.

[Mira Yurizaki]

3 hours ago, celerystruct said:

Speaking of Blu-ray discs, how does the PS4 pro not come with a 4K Blu-ray player? You know Sony's own proprietary format?

 

3 hours ago, Majinhoju said:

I'm baffled as well why Sony didn't include 4k bluray on the Ps4 Pro given that bluray is a Sony format.

Contrary to popular belief, the Blu-Ray standard is maintained by the Blu-Ray Disc Association. Sony was just the one who marketed it the hardest.

[celerystruct]

3 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Send it in and get it replaced? The warranty should be for a year.

Ah sorry that may have been misleading. So I bought a pro much earlier as a bundle deal for black Friday. A year later I bough the 4k tv on Black Friday. My warranty was long expired.

 

Also Sony's customer support or tech support is abysmal. I kept telling them all the things I tried to fix it and they'd tell me to either turn it off and on or do the fixes which I already explained to them I tried.

 

edit: there are known fixes for it like lowering the resolution or using an hdmi swapper supposedly but Sony doesn't offer a solution on their end.

The problem as I understand it is that something goes wrong when trying to display picture with HDCP enabled.

[Majinhoju]

38 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

 

Contrary to popular belief, the Blu-Ray standard is maintained by the Blu-Ray Disc Association. Sony was just the one who marketed it the hardest.

Ah, good to know.

[Mira Yurizaki]

A major argument with PC gaming is that "you can upgrade whenever you want" and "backwards compatibility is a thing."

 

I'm here to argue that... they're soft pros at best.

 

True, you can upgrade almost anything you want on a PC assuming it's a desktop tower using standard form factor parts. This is less true if you have a laptop which a lot of people have. This is less true with system builders who might use non-standard or at the least, non-popular standards like Dell or HP. And most damningly, your window to upgrade to something "meaningful" really depends. If you bought a Core i7-3770K years ago, it struggles at times, especially in high frame-rate scenarios, to keep up with something more modern like an i7-8700K. It gets worse if you want to stream your gaming sessions. Oh but you can up--... oh wait you can't. The i7-3770K was the best processor for its platform. Getting anything newer means upgrading the CPU, motherboard, and RAM.

 

So really, the whole "you can upgrade your PC" thing only really works if you started off with a potato to begin with. And you are making the money to afford upgrades in the future. But even then, by the time you do want to upgrade, your platform has likely been succeeded by several generations. It's also easy to compare modern hardware to older systems and claiming your PC is better. But I would've really liked to see a PC built in 2013 for $400 handily beat a PS4 while retaining all of the features it can do. Including that thing PC gamers conveniently forget: optical media playback.

 

And backwards compatibility? Maybe towards the last 10 years or so of gaming. I mean, that's still pretty good, but anything older and you increasingly get into the "maybe" to "nope" zone. DRM platforms that were relied on went away or are blacklisted by Windows' Smart Screen. APIs were used that have been unsupported for years. And some games just worked in ways that weren't recommended on Windows that causes things to break on something more modern. It's more surprising to me to find a game that works more or less fine on Windows 10 when it was designed for Windows XP or earlier.

 

I actually don't rely on Microsoft attempts at backwards compatibility because if Raymond Chen's blog and book has taught me anything, many Windows app programmers would rather have taken shortcuts and used undocumented behavior than stick to what Microsoft said how you should program an app for Windows. It's gotten to a point where I built a computer with more or less "period correct" hardware for those times if I really wanted to run a game from the Windows 98/early XP era (DOSBox only really works for, surprise surprise, games built for DOS and VM support for older OSes tends to be "it runs but that's about it"). I'd rather have a game run on something for the platform in which it was designed than hope the compatibility kludges Microsoft did work. It has only really been a decade or so since software development practices for Windows and APIs have settled down to the point where compatibility is much less of an issue.

[skywake]

9 hours ago, Duski said:

Good luck with that Ryzen 3 2200G in 6 years playing AAA games

9 hours ago, Majinhoju said:

To be fair the ps4 is playing AAA games 6 years after it's release.

Not really a like for like comparison though, relatively speaking the PS4 wasn't as low spec or priced as a 2200G at launch. The fairer comparison would be to say something like good luck playing AAA games on a 2600 with a GTX1660 in 2025. Something at a similar price now to what the PS4 was at launch. Consoles may have a good 6 years in them but typically it's ~6 years from launch, not 6 years from time of purchase.

 

Really this is kinda the main difference in price/performance between the two models. And I say model rather than platform because the PS4 and XBOne are basically PCs at this point anyway. Both of them have about a 5 year shelf life for "playing AAA games" because both models demand a 5 year upgrade cycle if you want to keep in touch with the newest titles. The difference is the console model locks you into the manufacturer's cycle while the PC gaming model is constantly moving. Consoles start out being far better value for money but over time that balance shifts back to PC.

 

Almost like clockwork I've upgraded my PC every 5 years since I was in High School (Duron -> A64 -> Core2Duo -> i5 -> Ryzen 5). I've never really brought into the "PCs are upgradable" bit because for me it's pretty much always an entire platform change anyway. So "upgradability" isn't something I use as an advantage. What is an advantage is that I can choose when to upgrade, whenever that is, and still have a relatively decent platform for 5 years. If I was to buy a PS4 right now? Even if it was the Pro SKU it's already quite a bit behind and odds are in two years there will be new games that it can't play.

So yeah, if you don't care about any of the productivity side of PCs and just care about gaming? Buying a console near launch isn't much different from buying a comparably priced PC. The problem is that with console gaming launch day not the day of your purchase is when the clock starts ticking

[TravisSolomon]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:37 AM, TrainFan2019 said:

I can't get used to the controls!

Ok

But there are many gamers that like to play simultaneously both on TV as well as on the console.

 

[Zberg]

Lots of pros to each side of the argument.  For pure gaming performance it is hard to beat a console.  Sure you can beat it, but price/performance is consoles all day.  Now with ryzen 3rd gen, we are in different territory, but we are also a getting closer to the new generation of consoles as well.  But a while ago luke did a cool video making the 500$pc vs the two major consoles, and it got crushed hard.  They really pack a lot of power in for a low cost.

 

I personally cannot go back to consoles after experiencing high refresh rate gaming.  144 hz is just too smooth, especially when you play a shooter.  Play at 144hz then try to go back to 60 or even *gasp* 30 fps.  You feel like you are walking around in quick sand with your eyes covered on molasses.  Or that the game is malfunctioning.  My 900$ LAN PC played games at high refresh at 1080p and I would be happy to pay that any day for 144 hz.  Also of course it could video edit, photoshop, and do the other things a PC can do too

 

I think the concept of a gaming PC is a perfect things for college kids as well, especially those getting into some kind of tech field that could benefit from a PC with some power.  CAD, premiere, photoshop, etc.  That person would be very well served with a 700-1000 dollar PC that could get them through their college years, and would be a champ in 1080p gaming.  Hell my wifes macbook pro was like 1500 bucks not long ago and my budget PC smokes it all day.  

 

 

[vanished]

I've tried to figure out where the hatred comes from many times before and I can't nail it down.  I think it's a complex social and psychological thing, and I'm not even going to try explaining that.  I can go over some objective and subjective reasons why people generally prefer PC though.  This isn't a complete list in all likelihood, and might include some things others would disagree with, but it's what comes to mind for me:

• Software - This is the "it's also a fully functional PC" factor, and everything that comes with it.  Basically, anything is possible on a PC, in theory, and though in practice sometimes it takes years to reach that potential for a given context, the options are still far more broad along the way, and you can be reasonably sure you'll get there eventually.

  • Control/Freedom/Flexibility - This breaks down into a lot of other categories as well:

    • Being able to modify or backup a savefile, or elements of the game (mods, etc.)
    • Being able to use any control scheme you can possibly imagine
    • Being able to choose the graphics settings that balance resolution, fidelity, and frame rate in a way that suits your taste rather than being locked into what ever the dev chose
    • Being able to choose different aspect ratio displays, or combine many displays, or do other crazy things how you please
    • You can do other things to modify your experience because you can run other apps at the same time.  Need a clicker program?  Want to record your gameplay without needing an external device?  Want to run additional processing on the audio to compress dynamic range?  It's all possible.

  • Specifically what I mean is the game you play today will still be playable in 5, 10, or 20 years.  Native compatibility is generally excellent, and by the time it slips into the incompatible era, hardware will have progressed enough that you can afford to emulate or virtualize the product.  This even goes for console games that were never released on PC to begin with.  Eventually that model of console will die off but the games live on in emulation.  That kind of ability, and that piece of mind is quite attractive.

• Hardware
  • Performance - this is a simple one, PCs are generally speaking more powerful, at least if you want them to be (and have the budget to get there).  This means more framerate, or fidelity, or resolution, or any combination of those.
  • Modernity - optical discs have basically been obsolete on PC for 5+ years now, while on console they are still a common way games are distributed.  To someone used to downloading things through Steam, it would feel like going from Netflix back to blockbuster.
  • Formless - there is no one PC, it can be anything, and the diversity is staggering.  This works synergistically with the other benefits above by bringing them to different situations and scenarios.
• Continuity - PC is one continuous platform.  The hardware changes but the OS, for which things are made, for all intents and purposes carries on (obviously updates are made and compatibility wanes as time passes, as per the above, but again, intents and purposes).  As per the above, things released years ago are still usable.  That means when you get a PC, you gain access to all the software that's ever existed for it.  On the flip side of this, we often we see games rereleased on consoles years after they were already available on other platforms.  This means if you're buying that console, you have to wait to get this game on it, and you have to pay again.  It also means that you will only ever have access to what they release on it, which in the early days can sometimes be a cripplingly short list.
• Convenience - Everything you need to do is in one device, whether it's this game or that, or something completely unrelated to gaming altogether.  No switching between multiple different consoles, switching discs in and out, etc.  It's all there.  Given the resources, you could even run it all at the same time if you want.
• Need? - This is definitely one of the subjective ones, but personally I can't imagine how anyone would operate in the modern world without a PC.  So then your options are get a high-end PC that can also game, or get a cheap PC and a console.  If you already need one anyway, it makes the pricing argument a little more interesting.

This isn't to say they're better in every way.  Certainly consoles are simple, generally less expensive, both outright and even for the hardware you get, and various other things people might like.  I don't think I need to go into that since that's not the topic, anyone who has ideas has them already, I'm just saying this to acknowledge that they exist.

 

Again though, none of this is a reason to hate consoles.  One may dislike that they lack these properties, perhaps to the point of not wanting to ever use one, but it's not enough for any reasonable person to actually be hateful.  The hate comes from a combination of these reasons plus the social and psychological things I mentioned earlier, whatever those are.

[Paul Rudd]

On 7/21/2019 at 12:58 PM, Duski said:

Why are so many people against consoles? I'll never understand the hate.

• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Lack of M&K support for console games.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to tweak individual graphic settings.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• The fact that you can run 80-90% of console games at a night and day difference on PC.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• The fact that you can emulate thousands of older console games from many generations on PC.
• Lack of being able to map buttons to how you wish.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to change the resolution to whatever you wish in almost every game.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to mod games, especially ENB mods.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Everything @Ryan_Vickers mentioned above this comment.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Did I mention the 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games?
• Oh and I almost forgot to mention the 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.

[goto10]

58 minutes ago, Intransigent said:

• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Lack of M&K support for console games.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to tweak individual graphic settings.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• The fact that you can run 80-90% of console games at a night and day difference on PC.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• The fact that you can emulate thousands of older console games from many generations on PC.
• Lack of being able to map buttons to how you wish.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to change the resolution to whatever you wish in almost every game.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Not being able to mod games, especially ENB mods.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Everything @Ryan_Vickers mentioned above this comment.
• 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.
• Did I mention the 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games?
• Oh and I almost forgot to mention the 20-30 fps in 80-90% of console games.

so, you dont know why you hate consoles i see

 

the thing that i hear the moat about modify a game, yeah! lets modify skyrim, lets add a ton of stuff

 

the you see that stupid video where instead alduin attacking helgen you see thomas the tank engine

 

that is my dream, sure

 

no, mods often offer nothing, is rare to see mods that add something, and when they do, often the game ends broken, on a bethesda game that already comes broken, more points of failure is not the ideal for everybody

 

the 20 30 joke you seem to think is funny, not all the games do that, the few that do are not fast paced games so it doesnt matter much really, the fee games where it is a problem, is usually developer fault, if they had a clear limit on resources present on the console and game starts to give low fps, is developer fault, always, develop a game for a console is a very specific situation where you already know everything that there is to be know about the specs of the device it will run the game, console developer gave everything on the first place to the game developer, blame them for that

 

people often forget that consoles are not a product for everyone, a console has to be small, very power efficient, simple to use and be kids friendly

 

i havent seen a pc be like that yet, or hardware gives you problems, or game gives you problems or windows or gpu driver

 

and i havent even mentioned licenses!

 

each product has a market and you dont have to be on every market to find every product useful for you

[Paul Rudd]

1 hour ago, goto10 said:

the 20 30 joke you seem to think is funny, not all the games do that

80-90% of them do. Going from 20-30 fps in GTA 5 alone has been well worth the purchase on PC. 85-115 fps in 1440p beats 20-30 fps at 1080p on console in GTA 5 all day long. The difference is night and day. And if when you mod GTA 5 makes the game unplayable, you obviously don't know how to use minimal mods.

1 hour ago, goto10 said:

i havent seen a pc be like that yet, or hardware gives you problems, or game gives you problems or windows or gpu driver

Games on PC present problems that can be fixed if you're tech savvy or have been dealing with similar issues for years. It becomes second nature to fix issues with games on PC.

1 hour ago, goto10 said:

each product has a market and you dont have to be on every market to find every product useful for you

I am on both PC and console. Thank goodness I only paid $145.00 for my brand new Xbox One S. Sure games look excellent on it. But how they play on console is why I rarely play on my console. I've had to rebuy them on PC to get the much better performance. Luckily, I only buy games at their historic low prices.

 

Take Battlefield 1 for example. It came with my Battlefield 1 Xbox One S. I love the game. It looks amazing on Xbox One. The day I got it on PC is the day I started dominating the battlefield. I went back to play on Xbox One and could barely break even because of the laggish, sluggish 40-60 frame rate. Which is a shame because it looks so good on my HDR 4KTV.

[goto10]

18 minutes ago, Intransigent said:

80-90% of them do. Going from 20-30 fps in GTA 5 alone has been well worth the purchase on PC. 85-115 fps in 1440p beats 20-30 fps at 1080p on console in GTA 5 all day long. The difference is night and day. And if when you mod GTA 5 makes the game unplayable, you obviously don't know how to use minimal mods.

Games on PC present problems that can be fixed if you're tech savvy or have been dealing with similar issues for years. It becomes second nature to fix issues with games on PC.

I am on both PC and console. Thank goodness I only paid $145.00 for my brand new Xbox One S. Sure games look excellent on it. But how they play on console is why I rarely play on my console. I've had to rebuy them on PC to get the much better performance. Luckily, I only buy games at their historic low prices.

 

Take Battlefield 1 for example. It came with my Battlefield 1 Xbox One S. I love the game. It looks amazing on Xbox One. The day I got it on PC is the day I started dominating the battlefield. I went back to play on Xbox One and could barely break even because of the laggish, sluggish 50-60 frame rate. Which is a shame because it looks so good on my HDR 4KTV.

who said something about gta? i said skyrim, you got lost there

 

btw i wouldnt mod gta, i dont want to get banned, so no, no mods, modding in gta is pretty much cancer, no, no mods

 

fix problems all the time for a pc technician is almost fun, but not everybody likes to have that fun

 

if i get home and want to play gta i dont want to know about 1903 or a antivirus update and a partition that needs chkdsk

 

pc has benefits but demands expenses, time and effort all the time, a console is plug and play, with a couple software updates a couple times per year, thats it

 

it is pointless to complain, about a product not meant to be the fastest running a game, people wants to run games, not complain because their fps ere not over 100 fps, when i want to play, i dont want to know anything about that, i want to play the game and have fun, forget about problems

 

4k is a specific resolution few have or use, so is a specific problem for a specific section of the market, when i want to play i dont want to know about resolutions, quality of image or any of that, those are details that dont matter as much as if the game is good or not, focus only on fps, details of image or capability of run emulators or not is pointless because i just want to play a game, not be concerned about details

 

btw tell me your name in gta online so i can report you as modder

[Duski]

@goto10 You can't get banned for modding if you're playing singleplayer. And mods in GTA V are pretty easy to install, take a look at LSPD:FR and see how many great things it adds 

And than we have Euro Truck Simulator 2, that game would be dead by now without mod support and without ProMods which basically adds the whole Europe.