AMD A8 9600 & ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming MB Boot Kit?

[kingknightrider]

If I use the AMD A8 9600 as a boot kit CPU...

Then upgrade the motherboard BIOS...

Would this build then work:

 

Asus - ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard

AMD - Ryzen 5 3600X?

 

Also will the Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler be compatible with Ryzen CPU and motherboard listed above?

[Jurrunio]

not sure... but you dont have to buy yourself a CPU for the bios update, just ask AMD's customer service team to send you a bootkit CPU which will include whatever CPU suitable for free (I think you only need to pay for shipping)

 

Unless their customer support only works inside the Milky Way

 

3600X? How much extra on top of the 3600?

[sazrocks]

Yes, I’m going to use that board for my 3900x when it gets here.

 

Get a 3600, unless you like paying $50 for a letter.

https://youtu.be/rDV7aA6arVo

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, sazrocks said:

Yes, I’m going to use that board for my 3900x when it gets here.

 

Get a 3600, unless you like paying $50 for a letter.

https://youtu.be/rDV7aA6arVo

Are you going to basically be using for gaming?

I am going to be doing gaming, audio and video editing and business projects on this processor -basically a workhorse processor.

Some of which will take single core loads which is what I heard the X could help with the 100mhz boost clock to 4.4 Ghz.

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

not sure... but you dont have to buy yourself a CPU for the bios update, just ask AMD's customer service team to send you a bootkit CPU which will include whatever CPU suitable for free (I think you only need to pay for shipping)

 

Unless their customer support only works inside the Milky Way

 

3600X? How much extra on top of the 3600?

Just call them up and ask for a boot kit cpu for the Strix X470 Gaming motherboard?

Yeah customer support and me have a torrid relationship part of the reason I moved here...

 

I think the difference is nominal at least by these sites compares:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-5-3600X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600/4041vs4040

https://www.windowscentral.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600x-vs-amd-ryzen-5-3600

 

That being said the main thing I looked at is the fact the X gives higher clock and boost clock. Though with the load it will handle and the multitasking it will do it is probably better to get the higher end clock speed. TDP being higher may actually help me here too now that I think about it. Allows more power pull for those resource intensive tasks.

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

Just call them up and ask for a boot kit cpu for the Strix X470 Gaming motherboard?

Yeah customer support and me have a torrid relationship part of the reason I moved here...

An email with any proof of purchase will do

 

3 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

That being said the main thing I looked at is the fact the X gives higher clock and boost clock. Though with the load it will handle and the multitasking it will do it is probably better to get the higher end clock speed. TDP being higher may actually help me here too now that I think about it. Allows more power pull for those resource intensive tasks.

No it doesn't. Actual power draw of the CPU at stock is determined by the TDC (socket current limit) and EDC (motherboard current limit), which means these two perform a lot closer than what 200MHz and 30W TDP difference suggest otherwise.

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

An email with any proof of purchase will do

 

No it doesn't. Actual power draw of the CPU at stock is determined by the TDC (socket current limit) and EDC (motherboard current limit), which means these two perform a lot closer than what 200MHz and 30W TDP difference suggest otherwise.

So this combo is not a good idea then?

[Jurrunio]

4 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

So this combo is not a good idea then?

I cant judge the board without knowing the prices of it and competing options, but the 3600X is only justified if price gap to the non-X is super small and you dont have any better cooler.

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

I cant judge the board without knowing the prices of it and competing options, but the 3600X is only justified if price gap to the non-X is super small and you dont have any better cooler.

The price difference here on the X is $10 USD more than the plain.

The Strix is at $170-210 USD

The cooler was going to be a Noctua - NH-D15 -will that still work or do I need something else?

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, kingknightrider said:

The price difference here on the X is $10 USD more than the plain.

Eh, negligible difference then.

 

1 hour ago, kingknightrider said:

The Strix is at $170-210 USD

Others say, the MSI X470 Carbon and Gigabyte Gaming 7?

 

1 hour ago, kingknightrider said:

The cooler was going to be a Noctua - NH-D15 -will that still work or do I need something else?

overkill. It will work as long as you have AM4 mounting frame.

[kingknightrider]

13 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Eh, negligible difference then.

 

Others say, the MSI X470 Carbon and Gigabyte Gaming 7?

 

overkill. It will work as long as you have AM4 mounting frame.

Ok.

Do you mean these two versus the Strix?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare?CompareItemList=13-119-099%2C13-144-178%2C13-145-058

If so I will look at the BIOS's...

Good to know definitely going for that cooler then.

[Jurrunio]

1 hour ago, kingknightrider said:

Ok.

Do you mean these two versus the Strix?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare?CompareItemList=13-119-099%2C13-144-178%2C13-145-058

If so I will look at the BIOS's...

Good to know definitely going for that cooler then.

yup

[kingknightrider]

23 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

yup

I do have a question: Does X470 BIOS's support mouse control?

All BIOS video I have watched do not show it -though It is not that big a deal.

 

Though I digress...

After looking at the BIOS of each of the three brands I am almost to the point of switching to the MSI board -since the new BIOS update for the ASUS boards is causing problems with memory or cpu or both and the GIGA has that WI-FI -something that I do not need.

 

 

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

I do have a question: Does X470 BIOS's support mouse control?

All BIOS video I have watched do not show it -though It is not that big a deal.

 

Though I digress...

After looking at the BIOS of each of the three brands I am almost to the point of switching to the MSI board -since the new BIOS update for the ASUS boards is causing problems with memory or cpu or both and the GIGA has that WI-FI -something that I do not need.

 

 

Not the Strix earlier on, but they seemed to have rolled out an emergency fix specficially targeting this problem (and not others already discovered). Tbh back in the old days there's no mouse control in BIOS, so people learned from the old days still prefer to smash the keyboard instead

 

MSI does overclock memory frequency rather well, but since Ryzen 3rd gen performs best at about 3600-3866, this advantage doesn't really show. Gigabyte Gaming 7 is the only board out of the 3 with a BCLK clock generator, which means it can push the BCLK higher for more single core performance (and the only way to achieve this) even with PCIe storage hooked up. Boards without the clock gen will raise their PCIe bus frequency when BCLK goes up which can crash PCIe cards and brick PCIe storages.

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

Not the Strix earlier on, but they seemed to have rolled out an emergency fix specficially targeting this problem (and not others already discovered). Tbh back in the old days there's no mouse control in BIOS, so people learned from the old days still prefer to smash the keyboard instead

 

MSI does overclock memory frequency rather well, but since Ryzen 3rd gen performs best at about 3600-3866, this advantage doesn't really show. Gigabyte Gaming 7 is the only board out of the 3 with a BCLK clock generator, which means it can push the BCLK higher for more single core performance (and the only way to achieve this) even with PCIe storage hooked up. Boards without the clock gen will raise their PCIe bus frequency when BCLK goes up which can crash PCIe cards and brick PCIe storages.

Everything seems to always have pros and cons.

I remember the days of the non-mouse BIOS.
I am an Enter and arrow key quick hitter that is why prefer mouse...

 

That 3600-3866 is that for default or overclock?

Was planning on:

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232752

Would there be better?

Usually use Kingston but heard bad things about them with Ryzen has that been remedied?

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

 

That 3600-3866 is that for default or overclock?

max overclock with Infinity fabric frequency set to the same as memory I/O bus clock (i.e. half the data rate on DDR)

 

5 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

Was planning on:

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232752

Would there be better?

32GB? There certainly are for less money

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rRHRsY/gskill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3000-memory-f4-3000c16d-32gtzr

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Dn97YJ/gskill-sniper-x-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c19d-32gsxkb

 

Even on the same price range it's still not good

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rcvbt6/corsair-vengeance-rgb-pro-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3466-memory-cmw32gx4m2c3466c16

 

7 minutes ago, kingknightrider said:

Usually use Kingston but heard bad things about them with Ryzen has that been remedied?

Haven't really heard of them. I just tack them into builds when I see the right prices (which usualy isn't the case, as the best value sticks are usually Crucial Ballistix, G.skill Ageis and Corsair Vengeance LPX)

[kingknightrider]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

max overclock with Infinity fabric frequency set to the same as memory I/O bus clock (i.e. half the data rate on DDR)

 

32GB? There certainly are for less money

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rRHRsY/gskill-trident-z-rgb-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3000-memory-f4-3000c16d-32gtzr

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Dn97YJ/gskill-sniper-x-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c19d-32gsxkb

 

Even on the same price range it's still not good

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rcvbt6/corsair-vengeance-rgb-pro-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3466-memory-cmw32gx4m2c3466c16

 

Haven't really heard of them. I just tack them into builds when I see the right prices (which usualy isn't the case, as the best value sticks are usually Crucial Ballistix, G.skill Ageis and Corsair Vengeance LPX)

So the Vengeance is not good at same price point?

Do those heat spreaders really dissipate the heat that is produced efficiently?

 

As to what I said about the Kingston:

https://www.newegg.com/p/0RN-001J-00D09?Description=HX436C17PB3K2%2f32&cm_re=HX436C17PB3K2%2f32-_-0RN-001J-00D09-_-Product

 

Yeah no way can afford that.

My bad too about the Kingston -their issues were related to RGB Ram...

 

Is the 3600 absolutely necessary?

3200 is easier to find.

[Jurrunio]

8 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

So the Vengeance is not good at same price point?

The particular kit you linked in that retailer is just not priced right. Memory prices fluctuate greatly so I can't say "it's no good, period".

 

Quote

Do those heat spreaders really dissipate the heat that is produced efficiently?

5W a stick in worst case, you dont need any heatsink for that.

 

8 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Is the 3600 absolutely necessary?

3200 is easier to find.

No, you could even run 2133 if you so insist. From value perspective 3000-3200 is the best for performance considering there's a much greater supply of memory dies that can hit these speeds compared to say, 3600 or higher. .

 

Same for timings, that's why 3200MHz CL16 costs noticeably less than say, 3200 CL14. That's because memory dies capable enough to be binned for 3200 CL14 (or 14-14-14-34 specifically) , which is Samsung B-die only (too bad Samsung pulled it out from production) and that's known to have best potential for high performance on Intel.

 

Samsung b-die is not as dominant on AMD systems though since its strength is to push low timings even at insane frequency, while Ryzen's memory frequency bottleneck is the fact that AMD have it tied to the infinity fabric frequency (also called uncore or north bridge). You can use different ratio for infinity fabric frequency to memory frequency, but then since IF also has a big impact in performance it's always recommended to stay at 1:1, and IF tops at 3866 even in the hands of the best tuners on ambient cooling.

 

On the other hand, Micron E-die is better in frequency overclocking on Ryzen thanks to its reduced stress on memory controller compared to Samsung B-die and E-die (Samsung E-die and Micron E-die coincidentally overclock with similar timing settings on Intel platforms) and for a much better price, hence along with SK Hynix CFR/CJR (I think these two are the same thing with different names) make up the cheaper end of high frequency sticks (beyond 3200). On or below 3200, Hynix AFR and MFR come into the mix of sticks and they are noticeably weaker than other types you can even find on sticks past 2666.

 

Maybe I've gone too far in all this, basically for value, the cheapest 3000-3200 kit you can find of enough capacity wins. For an actual pirchase, higher rated sticks at similar price is also worth considering.

 

 

[kingknightrider]

On 7/16/2019 at 3:36 AM, Jurrunio said:

I cant judge the board without knowing the prices of it and competing options, but the 3600X is only justified if price gap to the non-X is super small and you dont have any better cooler.

Or is it actually better to get the MSI X570-A PRO (160 USD) instead of the ROG STRIX X470-F (220) USD Gaming and avoid this scenario in the first place?

[Jurrunio]

5 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Or is it actually better to get the MSI X570-A PRO (160 USD) instead of the ROG STRIX X470-F (220) USD Gaming and avoid this scenario in the first place?

X570-A pro (and all MSI ATX board below the Carbon) has almost the same VRM as the B450 ATX and X470 Gaming Pro, Plus boards, only with doublers added. It doesnt help the old design that much... You might as well just go with the older boards if you can accept worse boards, even the 8 core is.easy to handle for those.

[kingknightrider]

2 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

X570-A pro (and all MSI ATX board below the Carbon) has almost the same VRM as the B450 ATX and X470 Gaming Pro, Plus boards, only with doublers added. It doesnt help the old design that much... You might as well just go with the older boards if you can accept worse boards, even the 8 core is.easy to handle for those.

Except the X570 boards would not need the AMD A8 9600 to use as boot kit and could go straight to the 3600X...or is that wrong?

 

Not to mention if the majority of the MSI boards are identical or close to similar as far as the actual motherboard hardware then that X570 board being cheaper than the X470 boards is a positive -even the Carbon?

 

To be clear none of these have Wifi?

Definitely trying to avoid Wifi.

 

Also with them being the same... that means they all follow the daisy chain with the RAM? I intend to run 2x16 and 2x8 ram sticks in dual channel mode. So maybe I need to avoid this D.C... -Or should I actually be looking for boards that have the D.C.?

https://www.amazon.com/Ballistix-16GBx2-PC4-25600-288-Pin-Memory/dp/B07M5RKH5Z/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=DDR4+32GB+(2+x+16GB)&qid=1564255832&s=gateway&sr=8-20

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ballistix-PC4-24000-288-Pin-Gaming-Memory/dp/B07MNJTHF1/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?keywords=Crucial%2BBallistix%2BSport%2BLT%2B3200%2BMHz%2BDDR4%2BDRAM%2BDesktop%2BGaming%2BMemory%2BKit%2B32GB%2B(16GBx2)&qid=1564255940&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr2&th=1

[Jurrunio]

8 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Except the X570 boards would not need the AMD A8 9600 to use as boot kit and could go straight to the 3600X...or is that wrong? 

MSI has B450 boards (all ATX and some mATX) with BIOS flashing capability without relying on the CPU. Connect the 24pin and it's enough.

 

8 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Not to mention if the majority of the MSI boards are identical or close to similar as far as the actual motherboard hardware then that X570 board being cheaper than the X470 boards is a positive -even the Carbon

Of course exclude boards that cost more than X570

 

8 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

To be clear none of these have Wifi?

Definitely trying to avoid Wifi.

Why? You could simply not use any Wifi the board carries.

 

DC's the best fit for Ryzen. On Intel DC limits frequency with 4 sticks, but Ryzen just cant or shouldnt go past 3866 even with all memory sticks occupied which both topology can do.

[kingknightrider]

On 7/27/2019 at 11:54 PM, Jurrunio said:

MSI has B450 boards (all ATX and some mATX) with BIOS flashing capability without relying on the CPU. Connect the 24pin and it's enough.

 

Of course exclude boards that cost more than X570

 

Why? You could simply not use any Wifi the board carries.

 

DC's the best fit for Ryzen. On Intel DC limits frequency with 4 sticks, but Ryzen just cant or shouldnt go past 3866 even with all memory sticks occupied which both topology can do.

Been doing a bunch of research even finally finding buildzoid's (-I think that is right) X570 motherboard reviews.

Who said that of cheaper motherboards of the X570 motherboard line that the ASUS Prime X570-P was probably the best in far as VRM construction.

Doubt that means it will cool the best but looks like metal over the usual plastic I have seen elsewhere so that is plus I guess.

So settling on that board and the Ryzen 7 3700X for the build -if price subsides otherwise sticking with the Ryzen 5 3600X.

This way can avoid the the AMD A8 in the first place and having no trouble BIOS issues.

 

WIFI conflicts with this:

SilverStone Tek 2.4G Wireless Power Remote with Power/Reset Function and Audio Feedback ES02-PCIE

Computer turns on/off/on/off when WIFI is enabled or disabled.

The reason I went back to my ASUS M5A97 R2.0 board.

 

Going back to my earlier statement on ram... I should explain: In my current machine -the FX8370 I use 4 ram sticks: two 16GB and two 8GB sticks.

It seems quite stable and performs well on this system.

So was planning that for the Ryzen build as well... yet being with the whole new hardware design that Ryzen is with memory (or at least their interaction) would that actually decrease performance and should go either 4 16 GB Sticks or 4 8GB sticks or is two by two alright?

 

One other question the Ram sticks that I linked before match in everything except size and one says its Dual Rank and the other says Single Rank -is that the chips on the ram stick are on one side and the other has them on both or is it their data rate -don't see the info on the site page pretaining to it or is it something else?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MR1HWXT/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MNJP6RW

 

[Jurrunio]

18 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Who said that of cheaper motherboards of the X570 motherboard line that the ASUS Prime X570-P was probably the best in far as VRM construction.

Imo too bad the TUF board and gigabyte elite board offer much more for a little price increase.

 

18 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Ryzen 5 3600X.

just get the non-X

 

18 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

WIFI conflicts with this:

SilverStone Tek 2.4G Wireless Power Remote with Power/Reset Function and Audio Feedback ES02-PCIE

Computer turns on/off/on/off when WIFI is enabled or disabled.

dat sucks

 

18 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

Going back to my earlier statement on ram... I should explain: In my current machine -the FX8370 I use 4 ram sticks: two 16GB and two 8GB sticks.

It seems quite stable and performs well on this system.

So was planning that for the Ryzen build as well... yet being with the whole new hardware design that Ryzen is with memory (or at least their interaction) would that actually decrease performance and should go either 4 16 GB Sticks or 4 8GB sticks or is two by two alright?

To keep things simple, let's say you should prioritize high capacity per stick rather than more sticks.

 

18 hours ago, kingknightrider said:

One other question the Ram sticks that I linked before match in everything except size and one says its Dual Rank and the other says Single Rank -is that the chips on the ram stick are on one side and the other has them on both or is it their data rate -don't see the info on the site page pretaining to it or is it something else?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MR1HWXT/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MNJP6RW

for DDR4, 8 chips count as a rank. Your stick has 16 chips? That's dual rank. Those silly tall 32GB non-REG sticks with 32 chips? That's quad rank.

[kingknightrider]

On 8/9/2019 at 12:39 PM, Jurrunio said:

Imo too bad the TUF board and gigabyte elite board offer much more for a little price increase.

 

just get the non-X

 

dat sucks

 

To keep things simple, let's say you should prioritize high capacity per stick rather than more sticks.

 

for DDR4, 8 chips count as a rank. Your stick has 16 chips? That's dual rank. Those silly tall 32GB non-REG sticks with 32 chips? That's quad rank.

Yes.

Except the TUF has the WIFI and the Elite is missing a PCI 1.0 slot in the place where it is needed -above the first PCI-Express slot.

Only the ASUS Prime X570-P has it there -the slot for the PC Remote Control:

 

Except mine plugs into the motherboard in the PCI 1.0 slot.

 

The 3700X has been priced hacked so holding off on getting it for now.

Going to get these other parts first.

Eliminating the 3600(X) since I am a multi-tasker it is better to get the greater core and threads.

I mean for someone who is going to run Star Control Origins, Metro Exodus, Far Cry New Dawn, Adobe Premier, Adobe Audition, and Audacity simultaneously and multiple encodings in all the adobe programs it seems almost a no brainer for a more powerful cpu.

 

Ok so one of the Ram sticks been looking at is single rank which would consist of 8 chips on the stick and the other is dual which means 16 chips on the stick... So is there any harm in running dual rank and single rank sticks if two of each?

 

As to prioritizing Ram by capacity does that mean the higher capacity in slots 1 and 3 and lower in 2 and 4 slot on the motherboard or did I miss something?

 

Since I currently have 24 GB and max it out everyday would it be better for just a 16 GB times two then and leave at 32GB?

I am slightly afraid of maxing it out like I do now -or maybe should keep original Idea of doubling current memory to 48 GB... which I only can see as accomplishing with two 16GBs and two 8GB's or with three 16 GB sticks -though I doubt any motherboard would take kindly to three sticks of memory.

Maybe should just go all out to 64GB?