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floofer

Smurfing by AI in Starcraft 2?

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Posted Original PosterOP

Google's DeepMind goes undercover to battle gamers

Source:聽https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48950103

Quote

Gamers in Europe are being invited to take on a bot developed by some of the world's leading artificial intelligence researchers.

But there's a twist: playerswill not be told when they have been pitted against it.

The tests are being carried out by DeepMind, the London-based AI company that previously created a program thatdefeated theworld'stop Go players.

In this case, the challenge involves the sci-fi video game Starcraft II.

Sometimes top players will know each other very well, and know almost exactly what their opponent will do. This is more specific when each top player has a specific race, whereas an AI can be programmed to be skillful at all.聽

Quote

DeepMind - which is owned by Google's parent Alphabet - has said its bot AlphaStar is playing anonymously so as to get as close to a normal match situation as possible. The concern is that if people knew for sure that they were playing against a computer, they might play differently.

Honestly is probably welcome. The built-in AI in SC2 sucks. Many players, as this is an electronic sport (e-sport), play constantly to upskill.聽

Quote

"It's a game of hidden information and making decisions with very limited knowledge," explained Raza Sekha, from Kent.

"People are very curious to see whether DeepMind will innovate and come up with new strategic thoughts.

"That would be a really great achievement, but I don't think many people are expecting it to happen."

Other notable AI's (I think OpenAI) have simply just make stalkers, as with perfect micro you can beat almost any combination. Hopefully it won't just be cheesing the game and we'll see some cool strategies that human players can use.聽

Quote

Handicapped AI

AlphaStar's progress has not been without controversy.

Some players felt that it had an unfair advantage in earlier matches because it could look at a game's entire map at once, taking in more detail than a human could.

"As a human, one of the hardest parts of the game is multitasking," explained Mr Sekha.

"It's really hard to split your attention between two places.

If you have infinite APM, like the AI anything is possible. I think they cap it for a bit more fairness, and for the AI to develop its strategies.聽

Quote

So, an AI has a crucial advantage when it can see everywhere at once, as that lets it attack and defend almost at the same time, whereas a human would have to choose whether it's best to do one or the other."

To tackle this, the agent has been tweaked to use the game's map more like humans do. It now has to zoom in to a section to determine the action within, and can only move units to locations in view.

DeepMind has also reduced the number of actions AlphaStar can take per minute to address other criticism.

Well there you go.聽

Quote

But Mr Sekha said there were still unanswered questions.

"If it can switch very quickly from one camera to another camera, much faster than a human could, that would still be a bit unfair," he said.

"So it will be really interesting to see what steps they have taken to level the playing field, because last time the community felt it was a bit too much in favour of the artificial intelligence."

Some human players could beat the AI, but it was like a match in 100 etc. More or less it was just making stalkers with infinite micro. Hopefully we see a little bit more. This is a huge progression in terms of a playable AI for SC2, and hopefully many other RTS games where this AI could be implemented.聽

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6 hours ago, SC2Mitch said:

The bot is such a cheater, hope he gets banned by Blizzard.聽

Just call it toxic and tell other players to report it.They'll ban it no questions asked coz its Blizzard lol...

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Open AI want to move to API less AI, where the AI is given the same screen input as a person and it has to output keyboard commands and mouse commands. Once this happens I would consider it a even playing field.


if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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13 hours ago, floofer said:

it was just making stalkers with infinite micro

About what you'd expect :P reminds me of the AI longbowmen in AoE2


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What is scaling and how does it work?Asus PB287Q unboxing!Console alternatives :DWatch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

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1 hour ago, Sauron said:

About what you'd expect :P reminds me of the AI longbowmen in AoE2

AGE OF EMPIRES 2 IS A PERFECTLY BALANCED GAME WITH NO EXPLOITS


NotCPUCores Dev | DesktopBuild: Ryzen 7 1800X @ 4.0GHz,聽AsRock Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming,聽32GB Corsair DDR4 @ 3000MHz,聽RX480 8GB OC,聽Benq XL2730 1440p 144Hz FS


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This is awesome. It's definitely limited as far as APM and only sees what the camera sees, so like in line whqt humans would know ans be able to do.聽

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6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Just call it toxic and tell other players to report it.They'll ban it no questions asked coz its Blizzard lol...

Yeah I once got reported for abusive chat just because people didn't like that I was playing attack torb in overwatch. Hadn't typed a single word.聽 Then later I got my account suspended for abusive chat while I was chat restricted form the earlier false reports. I mean c'mon blizzard. How can someone be toxic in that when they can't even type in it.聽

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1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah I once got reported for abusive chat just because people didn't like that I was playing attack torb in overwatch. Hadn't typed a single word.聽 Then later I got my account suspended for abusive chat while I was chat restricted form the earlier false reports. I mean c'mon blizzard. How can someone be toxic in that when they can't even type in it.聽

I got suspended last time by a god damn griefer. First he blocked me on spawn with Mei's ice wall, when i called him on his bullshit, he denied it and said I'm imagining things. The proceeded to bark at everyone to report me because I said mean words at the jackass when he blocked me with ice wall. Blizzard is a fucking joke with their retarded "zero toxicity" policy that turne the game into most toxic shit I've ever seen. You can just make shit up, get someone suspended and they just roll with it. I've never ever seen anything this retarded in my life and I've been playing online games since UT99... heh. So yeah,

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Just now, RejZoR said:

I got suspended last time by a god damn griefer. First he blocked me on spawn with Mei's ice wall, when i called him on his bullshit, he denied it and said I'm imagining things. The proceeded to bark at everyone to report me because I said mean words at the jackass when he blocked me with ice wall. Blizzard is a fucking joke with their retarded "zero toxicity" policy that turne the game into most toxic shit I've ever seen. You can just make shit up, get someone suspended and they just roll with it. I've never ever seen anything this retarded in my life and I've been playing online games since UT99... heh. So yeah,

Yeah it is pretty bullshit tbh. The game is kinda a joke at this point because 90% people don't really try. I cant say I blame them though because tryharding is just super unfun at this point because you just end up getting frustrated.聽

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10 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah it is pretty bullshit tbh. The game is kinda a joke at this point because 90% people don't really try. I cant say I blame them though because tryharding is just super unfun at this point because you just end up getting frustrated.聽

If I take Team Deathmatches, I'm gonna lose 17 games out of 20. It's not only super unfun, it's downright frustrating. Last thing we need is some godlike Ai pretending it has to press buttons and be dumber to not be totally unfair.

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Posted Original PosterOP
8 hours ago, Tedny said:

isn't this 2 months old news?聽

The AI then only played Protoss and was not on the ladder. So now its playing on BattleNet and not just a LAN with some pros, and with all races.聽

[EDIT]

and all player ranks depending on its MMR.聽

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11 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

Open AI want to move to API less AI, where the AI is given the same screen input as a person and it has to output keyboard commands and mouse commands. Once this happens I would consider it a even playing field.

And even then the AI would still have a significant advantage with no muscle/nerve control delay, it's reactions would be virtually instant as a keyboard input.聽

Unless they can account for the physical motor control lag and mouse input lag etc then the advantage AI has would cloud the difference between biological brains and electronic ones.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.聽 Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

And even then the AI would still have a significant advantage with no muscle/nerve control delay, it's reactions would be virtually instant as a keyboard input.聽

Unless they can account for the physical motor control lag and mouse input lag etc then the advantage AI has would cloud the difference between biological brains and electronic ones.

It would be interesting if the AI could only see what was going on through a camera pointed at the screen using some vision algorithms to process the image. It could also be made to interact with mouse and keyboard through robotic arms with similar response times to a human limb.


sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work?Asus PB287Q unboxing!Console alternatives :DWatch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

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Well Battle.net takes being over 18 witch sucks.


I am a christian I will not apoligize.

I play minecraft

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16 hours ago, floofer said:

The AI then only played Protoss and was not on the ladder. So now its playing on BattleNet and not just a LAN with some pros, and with all races.聽

[EDIT]

and all player ranks depending on its MMR.聽

so, bot finally finished聽

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21 hours ago, mr moose said:

And even then the AI would still have a significant advantage with no muscle/nerve control delay, it's reactions would be virtually instant as a keyboard input.聽

Unless they can account for the physical motor control lag and mouse input lag etc then the advantage AI has would cloud the difference between biological brains and electronic ones.

They limited APM and reaction times.聽

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9 hours ago, comander said:

They limited APM and reaction times.聽

They limited APM,聽 but I didn't read anything about reaction or the a bilty to switch between interpretations of the map.聽 Have they accounted for physical hardware interfacing?聽 having they accounted for the fact every action has a delay to completion by humans.聽聽聽 It seems the article is light on on information.

It just seems they are pitting two very different system against one another,聽 once you account for the flaws that hold humans back it's a no brainier the AI iwould become faster and more capable.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.聽 Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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