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Boinbo

Myth debunk thread

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Posted (edited) · Original PosterOP

I don't know if we have something like this, but I'd like to start one. What are some common PC myths that many people believe to be true, but aren't? Please post below.

Edited by Boinbo

Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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8 minutes ago, Boinbo said:

I don't know if we have something like this, but I'd like to start one. What are some common PC myths that many people believe to be true, but aren't? Please post below. I'll give one:

Air cooling is usually better than liquid cooling in almost every way. 

Is that a myth you're posting or the debunk?


Emma : i7 8700K @5.0Ghz - Gigabyte AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate - G. Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200Mhz - Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti - 750 EVO 512GB + 2x 860 EVO 1TB M.2 (RAID 0) - EVGA Supernova 650 P2 - Fractal Design Define R6 - AOC AGON 35" 3440x1440 100Hz - Mackie CR5BT - Logitech G910, G502, G933 - Cooler Master Universal Graphics Card Holder

 

Plex : Ryzen 5 1600 (stock) - Gigabyte B450M-DS3H - G. Skill Ripjaws V 8GB 2400Mhz - GeForce 8800GTS 640MB - 840 EVO 256GB + Toshiba P300 3TB - TP-Link AC1900 PCIe Wifi - Cooler Master MasterWatt Lite 500 - Antec Nine Hundred - Dell 19" 4:3

 

Lenovo 720S Touch 15.6" - i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM, 512GB NVMe SSD, 1050Ti, 4K touchscreen

 

MSI GF62 - i7 7700HQ, 16GB 2400 MHz RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD + 1TB 7200rpm HDD, 1050Ti

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10 minutes ago, Boinbo said:

Air cooling is usually better than liquid cooling in almost every way. 

In terms of cooling capacity CLC's only now are reaching the capabilities of large air coolers, so that's not a myth. Custom loops do often perform better when using a 360MM radiator or more, but the cost is prohibitive to most people (myself included).

 

A good waterblock costs more than my Dark Rock Pro 4, and I simply don't have $500 to spend on my cooling.


Brands I wholeheartedly reccomend (though do have flawed products): Apple, Razer, Corsair, Asus, Gigabyte, bequiet!, Noctua, CoolerMaster, GSkill (RAM only)

 

Wall Of Fame (Informative people/People I like): @Glenwing @DrMacintosh @Schnoz @TempestCatto @LogicalDrm @Dan Castellaneta

Useful threads: 

Guide to Display Cables/Adapters

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PSU Tier List (Latest)-

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Motherboard Tier List

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Main PC: See spoiler tag

Laptop: Early 2014 Macbook Air. Intel i5-4260U, 4GB RAM, 128GB Apple PCI-E SSD, Intel HD Graphics 5000

Phones: iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPhone 6s, iPhone 5s, iPhone 3GS x2. Lots more in parts.

 

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i5-8600K 3.6 GHz 6-Core OEM/Tray Processor  (Purchased For $200.00) 
CPU Cooler: Corsair H50 57 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  (Purchased For $0.00) 
Motherboard: MSI Z370M GAMING PRO AC Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card  (Purchased For $370.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Optical Drive: Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $75.00) 
Monitor: Dell U2417H 24.0" 1920x1080 60 Hz Monitor  (Purchased For $0.00) 
Monitor: LG 34UM69G-B 34.0" 2560x1080 75 Hz Monitor  (Purchased For $0.00) 
Custom: Cooler Master Stacker 830 Evolution Nvidia Edition  (Purchased For $60.00)
Total: $1395.00

身のなわたしはる果てぞ  悲しわたしはかりけるわたしは

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, jstudrawa said:

Is that a myth you're posting or the debunk?

Debunking the myth water-cooling is better, should have posted that first 😅


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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5 minutes ago, Boinbo said:

Debunking the myth water-cooling is better, should have posted that first 😅

It's not a myth, nor is it a debunk.  Some AIO's perform better than Air Coolers, while most do not, true.  It depends on the AIO and the Air Cooler.

 

Just because you asked this earlier and got some answers doesn't mean it's a definitive debunk.


Emma : i7 8700K @5.0Ghz - Gigabyte AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate - G. Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200Mhz - Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti - 750 EVO 512GB + 2x 860 EVO 1TB M.2 (RAID 0) - EVGA Supernova 650 P2 - Fractal Design Define R6 - AOC AGON 35" 3440x1440 100Hz - Mackie CR5BT - Logitech G910, G502, G933 - Cooler Master Universal Graphics Card Holder

 

Plex : Ryzen 5 1600 (stock) - Gigabyte B450M-DS3H - G. Skill Ripjaws V 8GB 2400Mhz - GeForce 8800GTS 640MB - 840 EVO 256GB + Toshiba P300 3TB - TP-Link AC1900 PCIe Wifi - Cooler Master MasterWatt Lite 500 - Antec Nine Hundred - Dell 19" 4:3

 

Lenovo 720S Touch 15.6" - i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM, 512GB NVMe SSD, 1050Ti, 4K touchscreen

 

MSI GF62 - i7 7700HQ, 16GB 2400 MHz RAM, 256GB NVMe SSD + 1TB 7200rpm HDD, 1050Ti

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, jstudrawa said:

It's not a myth, nor is it a debunk.  Some AIO's perform better than Air Coolers, while most do not, true.  It depends on the AIO and the Air Cooler.

 

Just because you asked this earlier and got some answers doesn't mean it's a definitive debunk.

Kay.


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, Arika S said:

this thread is a mess already...

Agree


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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There is no way this doesnt just dive into becoming a big fight. Debunking myths are only interesting when the myth is widely considered to be fact, and when you tell people what they know is wrong shit goes sideways


CPU Ryzen 3600, MB MSI MEG Ace x570, RAM Corsair Vengence Pro 32gb @ 3200 mhz, Custom Loop, Thermal Take Core P5 TG, GPU EVGA RTX2080 Ti XC  PC Part Picker list for complete build https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/j86vTB

 

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3 hours ago, jstudrawa said:

It depends on the AIO and the Air Cooler.

It also depends on the system in question and how the cooler is installed. 

An AIO drawing fresh unfiltered air will perform much better than one drawing in warm air or when installed next to restrictive panels / meshes. 


If you ever need help with a build, read the following before posting: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/3061-build-plan-thread-recommendations-please-read-before-posting/
Also, make sure to quote a post or tag a member when replying or else they won't get a notification that you replied to them.

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3 hours ago, Arika S said:

this thread is a mess already...

that's a myth.  This thread like many internet forums is well arranged with thoughtful posts. 🙃

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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That static can kill your PC...
Many times when i was static charged i would get zapped when trying to plug in usb, the spark would go from my finger to usb port metal shield/ground, nothing would happen to pc, id get a unpleasant shock on the other hand, happened many times in the office.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@JovanD @Evanair @mr moose @WoodenMarker @imreloadin @jstudrawa @SenpaiKaplan and especially @campy, thank you I much for your thoughtful/information/funny responses!


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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Posted (edited)

A few things that stick out in my mind

 

Incremental CPU improvements area a recent thing

A common complaint I've heard about Intel's recent generations of CPU is that they're only doing incremental IPC improvements because they were enjoying a comfortable lead over AMD. In this case, incremental IPC improvements equate to somewhere around 10% better than the last generation.

 

So taking this I decided to go look at benchmarks of previous CPUs throughout time. What I found is that incremental IPC improvements have almost always been a thing. What kept us going for most of the 90s and 2000s was a healthy improvement in clock speeds. To put things in perspective, the Pentium, Pentium II, and Pentium III all had models that at the tail end ran at twice the speed as one of the earlier models. Basically, this is a 200% improvement within the same generation. And one time this happened within a year. The only exceptions to this pattern were Intel's Core 2 and AMD's Ryzen. However, it's only this way because they were both coming from lackluster architectures to begin with.

 

I looked into this at https://linustechtips.com/main/blogs/entry/1323-on-the-complaint-of-incremental-cpu-improvements/

 

 

Intel's "toothpaste" TIM

I encourage people to read this article because it offers plausible explanations, outside of unverifiable claims, for why Intel used thermal paste for TIM: https://medium.com/@OpenSeason/soldered-cpu-vs-cheap-paste-59fb96a4fca7

 

ARM in general can't match x86

While I'm hoping there's more data available about testing between the two architectures, the ISA doesn't make a processor faster or slower, it's the implementation of it.

 

Background applications in their entirety can eat up a significant amount of CPU resources, so you should reduce the amount you have

While background applications still eat up CPU resources, it's tiny and it's most likely because it set a timer to wake up periodically to check for something. Unless the background application actually has something to do, it's not using the CPU to any meaningful amount at all. I looked into making Windows 10 lean to see if it significantly improved performance, which has a similar effect on eliminating background processes: https://linustechtips.com/main/blogs/entry/1231-does-making-windows-10-lean-do-anything-for-gaming-performance/

 

 

Cloning is dangerous/error prone/etc, you shouldn't do it

I've cloned my OS from one storage to another various times, and sometimes in roundabout ways. Now I'm not saying it's 100% effective, however treating it as 100% not effective is just bad. This also leads to another semi-related myth: that going from an HDD to SSD if you're using Windows is bad because Windows won't know it went onto an SSD. Windows, at least since 8, can identify it's on an SSD even if its cloned from an HDD.

 

Task Manager doesn't know how to report things

One I recently looked at was the GPU page, because people have reported the GPU page sometimes is inaccurate as far as utilization is concerned. But the problem is that the GPU page can have a dozen plus things to report and there's a limited space it can do it in. In any case, I explained it at https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1049404-fun-and-games-with-task-managers-gpu-page/

 

There's also a pervasive one like the CPU page doesn't know how to report clock speed. While I don't know much of the specifics about what Task Manager polls, it's a good guess that it's taking data from the CPUID instruction. The clock speed thing maybe due to the fact there's only one field and cores can be independently clocked.

 

But in the end, Task Manager's primary job, judging by the name of the app, can be implied that it's not a resource monitor. It just happens to be one since it's gathering resource utilization on all processes anyway. Also note that Task Manager is one of the few system tools you can run without elevating account privileges, which limits how much information the app can gather. Notice that every other monitoring tool needs to run with elevated privileges in order to work properly . So I guess on one hand, this "myth" isn't entirely a myth, but it really helps to understand why certain things the way they are, rather than chalk it up to "lol it doesn't work"

 

EDIT: If there's one thing I've noticed about a lot of things I looked at, it's that people make a claim at something but they never provide an answer that holds up to a decent amount of scrutiny or they've never actually went to prove their claims

 

7 hours ago, JovanD said:

That static can kill your PC...
Many times when i was static charged i would get zapped when trying to plug in usb, the spark would go from my finger to usb port metal shield/ground, nothing would happen to pc, id get a unpleasant shock on the other hand, happened many times in the office.

Nothing happened because that's exactly what ground's job is supposed to do: safely dump all excessive current to earth. In fact it's recommended if you don't use a static wristband (which is plugged into ground anyway) to touch the metal chassis of your case or PSU while it's plugged in.

 

Having a static discharge on anything that accepts an input, like V_in or data lines on a chip, can result in damaging something permanently.

 

Edited by Mira Yurizaki
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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Mira YurizakiYurizaki, thanks for the long and thought out response, I really appreciate it!


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, floofer said:

Macs being bad for the money is a huge myth. 

Thank you!


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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14 minutes ago, floofer said:

Macs being bad for the money is a huge myth. 

Eh, not really.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

A few things that stick out in my mind

 

Incremental CPU improvements area a recent thing

A common complaint I've heard about Intel's recent generations of CPU is that they're only doing incremental IPC improvements because they were enjoying a comfortable lead over AMD. In this case, incremental IPC improvements equate to somewhere around 10% better than the last generation.

 

So taking this I decided to go look at benchmarks of previous CPUs throughout time. What I found is that incremental IPC improvements have almost always been a thing. What kept us going for most of the 90s and 2000s was a healthy improvement in clock speeds. To put things in perspective, the Pentium, Pentium II, and Pentium III all had models that at the tail end ran at twice the speed as one of the earlier models. Basically, this is a 200% improvement within the same generation. And one time this happened within a year. The only exceptions to this pattern were Intel's Core 2 and AMD's Ryzen. However, it's only this way because they were both coming from lackluster architectures to begin with.

The problem isn't inherently that they've only improved the IPC for about 6 years, it's that the improvements were small. It's simply no longer physically possible to improve IPC or clock speed by 200% in the span of a year so they should have looked for other avenues instead of sitting on their arse. The main reason we have multicore CPUs is that we got to a point where the increase in single core performance was slowing down to a crawl. If we had continued at the rate of the '90s we would have 10GHz single core processors with an IPC multiple times higher than what we have now.

 

Since I'm here I'll debunk a myth too:

"Chrome on my system with 16gb of ram uses >8gb of ram so you can't run Chrome with <x> tabs on an 8gb system"

Chrome, as many programs and most operating systems for that matter, uses as much memory as it can to make the user experience as snappy as possible. This does not mean it requires all that ram to function. In fact, all it really needs is enough ram to show a single page and maintain basic functionality; switching to another tab would simply cause the previous tab to be suspended if there isn't enough ram for both (of course this means it would be slower, but it shouldn't crash).


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, floofer said:

Macs being bad for the money is a huge myth. 

*intensely disagrees*


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, floofer said:

Macs being bad for the money is a huge myth. 

Its not a myth, but also not entirely true.

 

Every person has different needs and tastes, so it is 100% subjective.

I would say that for A LOT of mac buyers, the mac is not worth it - because of marketing and other stupid reasons, ppl just think its better or are just used to it.

 

some people would say "paying $100 for a book is stupid" and then they go and buy a $300 painting. If you have the money and you spend it wisely, you can get a ton of value from something that others would never understand.

 


Ultra is stupid. ALWAYS.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Drak3 @Sauron and @Taja thanks for your responses!


Just say @Boinbo if you need me! I'll be limited to GPU, CPU, general discussion, peripherals, and new builds and planning though. I'm a potato.

(New)System specs:

Hp Pavilion with Core i3 5010u

HD 5500 Graphics

15 inch 1080p Screen

SKU Number: M1Y2UA#ABA

BIOS (UEFI): Insyde F.81, 7/25/2016

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Sudo make me a sandwich 

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