Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
LukeSavenije

NANDpocalypse - 6 Exabytes lost

Recommended Posts

Just now, CarlBar said:

I wasn't saying it did apply to this situation, just saying there are times when you do need multi-megawatt emergency power feed measures, they're rare and most situations don't justify them, but there are edge cases, (which is all i was saying btw).

I just wasn't sure how the British national grid applied, sounded more like a grid centric situation rather than a particular facility needing to maintain power etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Emergency and Backup Power

 

A supply of fluctuation-free electricity is critical. Chip fabrication plants and server farms must balance the expense of building independent electricity resources with the cost of equipment failures and network crashes caused by unreliable power. Hewlett-Packard has estimated that a 15-minute outage at a chip fabrication plant cost the company $30 million, about half the plant’s power budget for a year.   Backup systems are so expensive, that a survey of 48 companies revealed only 3 had backup power sources: 3 used generators and the other one solar (Hordeski).

 

It’s too expensive to operate a separate power plant to generate power. Fab plants use up to 60 megawatts of power, so putting a natural gas or coal power plant onsite would cost somewhere between $100-400 million dollars.

http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/

 

Perspective on how many actually have backup power.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was looking too good for SSD prices so they had to inflate them by some sort of incident. If it ain't flood it's power outage coz hamsters in power department were on stike or some shit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, TetraSky said:

How do you somehow lose 6EB of NAND in 13 minutes without power?

 

When the lights came back on the only thing they saw was a man in striped cloths and a black mask holding a black bag over his right should sneaking out of the door on his tippy toes.

 

 

 

 

 

robber.png


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might be the time to stock up on some SSDs.  I always like to have extras, and I need some for some projects anyways.  

Damn, just as they were falling in price and I was thinking of phasing out my HDDs for some 1TB or 2TB SSDs.


Desktop: Outlive:CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700 | CPU Cooler: AMD Wraith Spire | RAM: XPG GAMMIX D10 16GB DDR4 3000MHz | MOBO: ASRock B450M Pro4 | GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX 590 | Storage: Inland Professional 256GB PCIe 2x NVMe SSD, Crucial 512GB SSD, WD Blue 2TB HDD, Seagate 2TB HDD | PSU: Thermaltake Smart Pro RGB 750W | Case: Thermaltake Versa H18 | Keyboard: Logitech G810 | Mouse: Logitech G602 | Monitor: HP Omen 25 | 2nd Monitor: HP 25vx | 3rd Monitor: Asus VW199T-P | Speakers: Logitech Z313 | Headset: Logitech G230

Laptop: Dell Inspiron 15 7559:CPU: Intel Core i5 6300HQ | RAM: 16GB DRR3L | GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 960M 4GB | Storage: ADATA 1TB SSD | Mouse: Logitech G602 | Headset: Turtle Beach ZLa

HTPC: CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G |  | RAM: 8GB Team T-Force Vulcan DDR4 2800MHz | MOBO: ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac | Storage: SanDisk 240GB SSD w/Seagate 1TB SSHD | PSU: Powerman 350W | Case: AZZA CSAZ-103 Black

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mr moose said:

When the lights came back on the only thing they saw was a man in striped cloths and a black mask holding a black bag over his right should sneaking out of the door on his tippy toes.

 

 

 

 

 

robber.png

God damn raccoons and their shenanigans.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets remember they also run a clean room likely for sedative parts. This means they have to restart and ensure the airs dust free and continent free during this time. I;ve gotten to go inside once to a small fabs clean room long ago for production. They are VERY particular about what gets touched by what to ensure no damage to sensitive parts. Likely now they have to check any salvageable pieces or parts for continents that may now have ruined material.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Tellos said:

Lets remember they also run a clean room likely for sedative parts. This means they have to restart and ensure the airs dust free and continent free during this time. I;ve gotten to go inside once to a small fabs clean room long ago for production. They are VERY particular about what gets touched by what to ensure no damage to sensitive parts. Likely now they have to check any salvageable pieces or parts for continents that may now have ruined material.

I'd also be worried if they find large areas of earth the size of Australia inside the fab facility, why do Aussies have to destroy everything.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'd also be worried if they find large areas of earth the size of Australia inside the fab facility, why do Aussies have to destroy everything.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

I dont get the reference or joke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Continent vs Contaminant

Sorry spell check apparently got it wrong.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, leadeater said:

http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/

 

Perspective on how many actually have backup power.

I would argue that more probably do have some form of UPS/battery backup power in a few production locations, but only enough to let a production machine halt without damaging itself, rather than trying to continue production or save product.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, justpoet said:

I would argue that more probably do have some form of UPS/battery backup power in a few production locations, but only enough to let a production machine halt without damaging itself, rather than trying to continue production or save product.

Yea that stat was just looking at generators I believe, most have UPSs even just for the power quality protection they offer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's weird that company like Toshiba doesn't have worked out power redundancy. If power outagge results in such massive production defect, I'd be damn sure to have this ready at all times.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

It's a supposition, so backing it up would simply be me confirming that I assert it. I confirm it.

 

Much smaller companies have backup power to protect their operations. I think it would be pretty crazy if a large tech production process was running at the mercy of the unknown. Kind of a big oversight for an advanced tech company.

You haven't been paying attention. Backup power generation doesn't scale up well, both in cost effectiveness and biltiy to get online. The amount of generation required would cost more than the losses incurred from an outage. Also, the larger the generation plant required, the longer it takes to bring it online. Reread what I already wrote on that.

 

Btw, supposition is not fact and your own confirmation of supposition is worthless.

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/

 

Perspective on how many actually have backup power.

Excellent article that did a more detailed account of what I wrote earlier. One thing not mentioned was the amount of time it takes to get generation units of the size needed online from a cold start. The only way for plants large enough to power a massive semiconductor manufacturing plant would be to keep the plant idling. Even then, it takes a while to ramp up production from even idle, even though it is faster than a cold start up. Eating the cost of an outage is going to be far less than the cost of building a large enough power plant, maintaining it, and keeping it idling at all times.

2 hours ago, kaiju_wars said:

Might be the time to stock up on some SSDs.  I always like to have extras, and I need some for some projects anyways...

I do the same thing. I keep at least one spare of every size and type of SSD is have (which is quite a few since I abandoned HDDs a few years ago) since, despite living in a megalopolis (Phoenix, AZ area), replacements are not available locally and the online vendors I trust to buy SSDs from occasionally run out of stock.

19 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's weird that company like Toshiba doesn't have worked out power redundancy. If power outagge results in such massive production defect, I'd be damn sure to have this ready at all times.

Go back over this thread again.


Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, Optane SSDs will be a little less ridiculous compared to NVMe drives.

Intel executives are likely partying right now, considering their Optane SSDs will make their first sale in years.


Ryzen 5 1500X (2.8GHz@0.8875V) === ASRock B450 Gaming ITX/AC === 24GB DDR4 === Sapphire RX 570 4GB === Optane 800P 58GB === Patriot Burst 240GB === Toshiba Q300 240GB === beQuiet SFX Power 2 400W === Silverstone ML08B

Spoiler

OK, i'm not even gonna build this, but is this a good workstation?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($72.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($168.99 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($62.99 @ NCIX US) 
Memory: Samsung 32GB (1 x 32GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($256.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar He8 8TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($479.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card  ($179.99 @ NCIX US) 
Case: Lian-Li PC-V2130WX ATX Full Tower Case  ($499.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($23.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1745.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-09 12:48 EST-0500

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Excellent article that did a more detailed account of what I wrote earlier. One thing not mentioned was the amount of time it takes to get generation units of the size needed online from a cold start. The only way for plants large enough to power a massive semiconductor manufacturing plant would be to keep the plant idling. Even then, it takes a while to ramp up production from even idle, even though it is faster than a cold start up. Eating the cost of an outage is going to be far less than the cost of building a large enough power plant, maintaining it, and keeping it idling at all times.

Yep, if you are building a 60MW capable power source then you're better off using it as primary and the grid as backup.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it's especially lower costif you can just dump the costs of failure on the consumers who just have to accept it. Like they always do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 exabytes...

 

assuming it's a whole day from June 15 and the downtime covers up to the point of resuming operations somewhere mid-july, why not, July 15:

6 EB over 30 days: in a nonstop year it'll produce about 73 EB of NAND.

 

slightly over 76 million 960GB SSDs per year in theory

6 EB is roughly 6.25 million 960GB SSDs

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Can you back that up?

I work for a small IT company, with less than 60 employees and on top of the battery backup, we also have a generator that is inspected every day ... now, if a manufacturing plant of that size doesn't have generators, then someone somewhere hasn't done their job properly.

 

With that said, it's 100% possible that the generators didn't kick in for some reason, that happened to us once, despite the daily inspections, incidents do happen.

 

 

EDIT :

 

just saw the article @leadeater posted, yeah, with that amount of power, I can understand why the whole plant isn't backed up. But I feel like there should be a middle ground, no? (at least, it looks like they had a some battery backup power, I'm just surprised there's no other form of backup, even only on specific critical applications). 

Edited by wkdpaul

If you need help with your forum account, please use the Forum Support form !

 

 

NiceHash Mining Guide

Ethereum Mining Guide

Spoiler

My Gaming Rig - Motherboard: MSI Z370-A PRO CPU: i7-8700 RAM: 32GB DDR4 2400(4x8GB) GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1060 3GB OS SSD: 240GB Avexir E100 Storage: 1x 1TB Seagate PSU: Seasonic G650 OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bits Monitor: Acer 21in G205H + Lenovo 21in

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

I work for a small IT company, with less than 60 employees and on top of the battery backup, we also have a generator that is inspected every day ... now, if a manufacturing plant of that size doesn't have generators, then someone somewhere hasn't done their job properly.

 

With that said, it's 100% possible that the generators didn't kick in for some reason, that happened to us once, despite the daily inspections, incidents do happen.

I work in a large office building that has 2 massive diesel generators that will kick in to keep system critical things online. since they take about 30ish seconds to hit full output, we have battery backups to run things until the generator takes over, technically we can run for 48 hours without power, but that's literally only powering computers and basic servers. our data centre is offsite. that would be an insane amount of power and generators to keep a foundry running for even a few minutes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, leadeater said:

http://energyskeptic.com/2014/interdependent-chip-fab-electricgrid-financial-sys/

 

Perspective on how many actually have backup power.

That's fascinating. I guess it is an unstoppable process. They sell generators with megawatt-level output, but I also vastly underestimated the power demands of these plants.

 

That's fascinating to me that they just accept power outages and major loss as a cost of doing business. That's amazing to me.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dacien said:

I also vastly underestimated the power demands of these plants.

So did I until I looked in to it, was thinking like 5MW max, way off lol.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×