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VegetableStu

Why slow down? Displayport 2.0 spec announced

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Posted · Original PosterOP

t3afQnUh.jpg

basically.

 

via: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14590/vesa-announces-displayport-20-standard-bandwidth-for-8k-monitors-beyond

Quote

Anandtech:

Rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel, for DisplayPort 2.0 the VESA decided to take advantage of Intel’s existing Thunderbolt 3 technology, which already hits the data rates that the VESA was looking for. While initially a proprietary Intel technology, Intel released the technology to the wider industry as a royalty-free standard earlier this year. This allowed third parties to not only create pure Thunderbolt 3 devices without paying Intel, but also allowed Thunderbolt 3 technology to be repurposed for other standards. So whereas USB4 is a more straightforward rebranding of Thunderbolt 3, for DisplayPort 2.0 takes it in a different direction by essentially creating a one-way Thunderbolt 3 connection.

whoa, sweet. O_O definitely makes sense for a display where nothing much gets sent back from the display.

although the main thing would be that once the connection is saturated by the DP 2.0 stream, nothing else can be carried (USB hubs, Thunderbolt lanes, ethernet, etc)

 

technically, conversely, any high-bitrate cameras could leverage this the OTHER way (maybe not exactly displayport, but just the ability to meld directionality) and be able to send SUPER HIGH bitrate footage to a recording station

 

Quote

Anandtech:

Standard Raw Bandwidth
(4 Lanes)
Effective Bandwidth
(4 Lanes)
Target Monitor
Resolutions
DP 1.0/1.1 (HBR1) 10.8 Gbps 8.64 Gbps 1440p@60Hz
DP 1.2
(HBR 2)
21.6 Gbps 17.28 Gbps 4K@60Hz
DP 1.3/1.4
(HBR3)
32.4 Gbps 25.92 Gbps 4K@120Hz
8K@60Hz (w/DSC)
DP 2.0
(UHBR 20)
80 Gbps 77.37 Gbps 8K@60hz HDR
>8K@60Hz SDR
4K@144Hz HDR

2x 5K@60Hz

DisplayPort 2.0, in turn, is shooting for 8K and above. Introducing not just one but a few different bitrate modes, the fastest mode in DisplayPort 2.0 will top out at 80 Gbps of raw bandwidth, about 2.5 times that of DisplayPort 1.3/1.4. Layered on that, DisplayPort 2.0 also introduces a more efficient coding scheme, resulting in much less coding overhead. As a result, the effective bandwidth of the new standard will peak at 77.4 Gbps, with at 2.98x the bandwidth of the previous standard is just a hair under a full trebling of available bandwidth.

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

EDIT: extra bit on cables (might be close to quoting too much ,_,)

Quote

Anandtech:

Here’s where things get a bit trickier, both for the VESA and for users. Thunderbolt 3 pushed the limits of copper cabling, and as a result for all but the shortest runs it requires active cabling, with transceivers at each end of a cable. While effective, this drove up the cost of Thunderbolt 3 cables versus relatively cheap all-copper commodity USB 3 and DisplayPort 1.x cables. By using Thunderbolt 3 as the basis of their new standard, the VESA has inherited the cable technology limits of the standard as well.

 

The answer to the cable question then is that the VESA hasn’t really answered it. Instead, they’re focusing on what they can do now with passive cables. All told, the DisplayPort 2.0 actually introduces not one, but three new data rates: 10 Gbps per lane, 13.5 Gbps per lane, and 20 Gbps per lane. Dubbed Ultra High Bit Rate (UHBR), the for free-standing monitors the VESA right now is focusing on 10 Gbps per lane (UHBR 10), which will deliver a total of 40 Gbps of bandwidth.

 

At just half the data rate of full-fat DisplayPort 2.0 (and Thunderbolt 3), UHBR 10 is resilient enough that it can operate over standard passive copper cabling, and cables should have little issue reaching 2-3 meters. The VESA has actually been preparing for this for some time now, and UHBR 10 aligns with their previously-launched DisplayPort 8K cable certification program; 8K-certified cables will be able to meet the signal integrity requirements for UHBR 10.

seems to suggest current thunderbolt-certified USB-C cables should be enough for their current lengths, but for something like Linus's attic homelab... I should think he might have cable reach issues? considering the nonpresence of readily available Thunderbolt 3 Optical cables.

Spoiler

 

other than that, should be OK for desktop workstations.

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OK_thumb.jpg

 


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Spoiler

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#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

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Pretty amazing! Huge improvement indeed. Nice how they made this and with USB C port implementation option too. 

So 4K 240Hz 10 bit HDR will be a dream monitor. 

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Nice because using two cables is annoying


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Is it still physically backwards compatible with 1.4 and below? Or does it have to use usb-c?


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Posted · Original PosterOP
33 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Is it still physically backwards compatible with 1.4 and below? Or does it have to use usb-c?

has to be USB-C, it's utilising thunderbolt 3's tech ._.

so the GPU and the monitor has to have the related controllers/redrivers. kinda doubt if it's usable on current thunderbolt controllers

 

EDIT: for lower data rates and versioning I think it'd still work with adapters. I might need to read up more to see what I left out ,_,

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wait so it uses Thunderbolt... does this mean that GPU's will essentially become Thunderbolt cards now?


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, bcredeur97 said:

wait so it uses Thunderbolt... does this mean that GPU's will essentially become Thunderbolt cards now?

it's being rebranded to USB4, but eeeeehhh most RTX GPUs are technically USB 3.1 5G cards now, so.....

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Fast bois

 

Display standards are progressing faster than monitors can keep up.


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5 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

it's being rebranded to USB4, but eeeeehhh most RTX GPUs are technically USB 3.1 5G cards now, so.....

that's true.. forgot they added that C connector for VR headsets.. guessing you can use it for other things too if you want? Can I plug a USB C flash drive into my RTX GPU? lol


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58 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Is it still physically backwards compatible with 1.4 and below? Or does it have to use usb-c?

As long as the DP connector is suitable for Thunderbolt signaling, they can probably recycle the DP connector. So far I see no reason why they can't.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
14 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

that's true.. forgot they added that C connector for VR headsets.. guessing you can use it for other things too if you want? Can I plug a USB C flash drive into my RTX GPU? lol

you laugh, but yes ._.

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5 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

you laugh, but yes ._.

I mean you can plug it in but does it WORK?


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1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

has to be USB-C, it's utilising thunderbolt 3's tech ._.

so the GPU and the monitor has to have the related controllers/redrivers. kinda doubt if it's usable on current thunderbolt controllers

 

EDIT: for lower data rates and versioning I think it'd still work with adapters. I might need to read up more to see what I left out ,_,

 

18 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

As long as the DP connector is suitable for Thunderbolt signaling, they can probably recycle the DP connector. So far I see no reason why they can't.

Got to my desktop and had a chance to read the article.

Quote

The end result then is an interesting compromise, and importantly, one that delivers more bandwidth while retaining backwards compatibility with existing DisplayPort gear. The DisplayPort itself is staying: it and the USB-C connector (via DP alt mode) are both official ports for the new DisplayPort 2.0 standard. 

Yay! Backwards compatibility!

The cables are another story though.

Quote

But what of cables? Here’s where things get a bit trickier, both for the VESA and for users. Thunderbolt 3 pushed the limits of copper cabling, and as a result for all but the shortest runs it requires active cabling, with transceivers at each end of a cable.... All told, the DisplayPort 2.0 actually introduces not one, but three new data rates: 10 Gbps per lane, 13.5 Gbps per lane, and 20 Gbps per lane.... At just half the data rate of full-fat DisplayPort 2.0 (and Thunderbolt 3), UHBR 10 is resilient enough that it can operate over standard passive copper cabling, and cables should have little issue reaching 2-3 meters.... Instead, the group envisions UHBR 13.5 and UHBR 20 being tethered setups: manufacturers would ship devices with an appropriate port/cable already attached. These can potentially be passive cables for very short runs (think laptop docks), or integrated active cables for longer runs.

So this is interesting. Passive (normal) cables will be able to handle UHBR 10 (40Gbps), but to get the full 80Gbps you will need active cables, which will either be significantly more expensive (think longer thunderbolt cables) or integrated into the device itself (I think this is what tethered means?).

 

edit: you edited it in already darn it


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3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

Never enough USB ports when you need them
 

Related image


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, rcmaehl said:

Related image

i initially called them Displayport-C sockets untill i first discovered that article, LOL

 

would be 100% correct to call them USB-C ports. also has a USB-C controller and VRM on each card that has it

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8 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

I mean you can plug it in but does it WORK?

well thats the whole point of VirualLink, its to have DP signal and USB3.1 at the same time.


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Cool, but won't actually be used in a while.


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17 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

although the main thing would be that once the connection is saturated by the DP 2.0 stream, nothing else can be carried (USB hubs, Thunderbolt lanes, ethernet, etc) 

Don't we already have this problem today with DP?

DP doesn't carry things like Ethernet and you need a separate connector for it.

 

15 hours ago, sazrocks said:

Is it still physically backwards compatible with 1.4 and below? Or does it have to use usb-c? 

It's backwards compatible.

 

14 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Fast bois

 

Display standards are progressing faster than monitors can keep up.

My current monitor is actually limited by the DisplayPort port.

5120x1440 at 120Hz with 10bit color depth is too much for the current DP standard to handle so I have to either lower the refresh rate, lower the bit depth, or do a lossy compression on the signal which reduces the image quality.

 

 

14 hours ago, sazrocks said:

So this is interesting. Passive (normal) cables will be able to handle UHBR 10 (40Gbps), but to get the full 80Gbps you will need active cables, which will either be significantly more expensive (think longer thunderbolt cables) or integrated into the device itself (I think this is what tethered means?). 

Yes that's what tethered means. Although that part is just speculation from Anandtech.

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7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Don't we already have this problem today with DP?

DP doesn't carry things like Ethernet and you need a separate connector for it.

oh, it squats out the entire rated bandwidth? o_o I'm thinking of thunderbolt since it has a separate channel specifically for displayport transport...

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