Cyberpunk's creator slams critics who claim Cyberpunk 2077 is racist / inaccurate to the source, refutes their claims

[SenKa]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

That's what I was thinking. However, I looked it up and it looks like "transvestite" refers to someone who wears the clothes of the opposite sex for pleasure, a cross-dresser, while "transgender" refers to someone who identifies themselves as the opposite sex to their biological sex.

 

I guess they sound similar, but that "transvestite" is specifically someone who wears the clothes of the opposite sex and not necessarily someone who identifies as the opposite sex.

When transvestite was a common word, transgender did not exist as a word. That was simply the word of the commentary of the time, and at the time that word meant what you stated because transgender people were frowned upon. There are a lot of amazing movies that commentate on the issue of Transvestite vs Transgender and exemplified a need for a mental health reform. My favorite is The Silence of The Lambs. Now a days, that definition of transvestite has gone away as it is quite obvious that most (though not all) people who dress as a certain gender identify or believe that they are that gender.

[Doobeedoo]

Good response by him. Seriously, these morons bashing something out of thin air with 0 understanding, making drama out of anything, should just be ignored completely. They can't even understand basic principles of the game, settings, meaning even, just looking at something as black and white or like trying to find something that can bother them for some reason so they can spew shit. 

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

26 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Man those were the days! Certainly gave you some thick skin! 

Defintely, I must have over 1000 step dads according to kids on the internet

[RejZoR]

54 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

No, what I mean is "How about not making the same public outcry for yet another game (or media in general) or underpresentation, especially based on a 40 min gameplay." But thank you for putting words in my mouth on the "I like it more when games/games critics agree with me politically". But I am not surprised since it's you, once again.

But just for you, I don't care if 5% or 95% of characters are LGBT, caucasian or a completely other race, any other racial or cultural subgroup or if they're animals. I don't care if US is the hero or the soviets are ruling the world. I care about the game and how well they make the gameplay, story, and develop characters who can declare themselves as an apache helicopter, a turtle or a gremlin. I don't care. I have a superficial outlook on this art? No, it's the people who make the same outcry on every single game because they can't identify with a character. And then if their beloved character turns out to be the new Jack the Reaper then they cry on social media how the subgroup is wrongly represented. They always cry for one thing or another. They are never happy. And you call that a good view on art? I admire the game as an art from different standpoints and don't undermine the art impact because I don't agree with developers views. It is people like you who decide to make it political and undermine the art part.

 

Even the artist says:

Yet the same people would make the same outcry all over again because they have to be acknowledged. It's political because they made it.

I'd actually like to see more crazy designs. I loved Wolfenstein (not sure which game exactly) where Germany won the WW2 and everything was upside down as we know it. I want more of this in games where things are the way we knoiw them, but all wrong. Similar was Bioshock and it's 1950's setup with a touch of science fiction. We know how 50's looked like, but with all the genetics and splicers around it was messed up experience in a good way.

[Sauron]

26 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

No, what I mean is "How about not making the same public outcry for yet another game (or media in general) or underpresentation, especially based on a 40 min gameplay." But thank you for putting words in my mouth on the "I like it more when games/games critics agree with me politically". But I am not surprised since it's you, once again.

You said:

Quote

Imagine if we could have a game without political stances, correctness and all other things.

if you meant what you're now claiming you meant you did a terrible job of communicating it. I extrapolated the only conclusions possible from your original statement since actually wanting that to the letter would mean excluding every game ever made with very few exceptions, if any.

 

If I call you out often it's because you tend to throw out debunked reactionary talking points rather frequently. Just look at how far you retreated from the original, untenable and extremely general statement as soon as someone pointed out how absurd it was. You went from "Imagine if we could have a game without political stances" to basically "let's not criticise this specific game based on a trailer".

34 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

But just for you, I don't care if 5% or 95% of characters are LGBT, caucasian or a completely other race, any other racial or cultural subgroup or if they're animals. I don't care if US is the hero or the soviets are ruling the world. I care about the game and how well they make the gameplay, story, and develop characters who can declare themselves as an apache helicopter, a turtle or a gremlin. I don't care.

That's all well and good but it's completely irrelevant to what I said. Also, if you don't care, why make a fuss about any of this? Let those who care care and enjoy the game when it comes out. Even if CDPR made changes based on this I don't see how gameplay would be affected and you don't seem to think the story would change depending on how the characters identify themselves.

37 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

I have a superficial outlook on this art? No, it's the people who make the same outcry on every single game because they can't identify with a character.

Basically a "no u" argument.

37 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

And then if their beloved character turns out to be the new Jack the Reaper then they cry on social media how the subgroup is wrongly represented. They always cry for one thing or another. They are never happy.

Seriously? Did you miss the BFV charade? People who talk like this are almost always the first to cry like babies whenever game developers do anything superficially more progressive than what they're used to. And what is this thread if not a bunch of "Gamers" ranting about one article they disagree with?

 

42 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

And you call that a good view on art? I admire the game as an art from different standpoints and don't undermine the art impact because I don't agree with developers views. It is people like you who decide to make it political and undermine the art part.

So you DO think the game isn't inherently political. As I said, you're wrong - art IS inherently political in one way or another. I don't know what art you think you "admire" but if you take everything that could be seen (intentionally or not) as political out of the game you're left with abstract spheres increasing a score pointer via nondescript interactions with other spheres. In fact even that would be a political statement about people who want politics "out of their games".

Quote

Even the artist says:

Quote

Who the (bleep) do YOU think you are to tell ME whether or not MY creation was done right or not.

Yet the same people would make the same outcry all over again because they have to be acknowledged. It's political because they made it.

I take it you're not familiar with "death of the author". Obviously the artist is entitled to their opinion and can explain what they meant but the art itself can have meaning that goes beyond what the author intended.

 

Oh, and maybe you missed the part where I said I don't necessarily agree with RPS on this - I just feel compelled to point out that 90% of what you wrote here is wrong or fallacious. You'll notice that I didn't reply to anyone to tell them the journalist is right, I only replied to people who took that position and from it jumped to absurd conclusions.

45 minutes ago, RuffRuffmcgruff said:

Never has a truer sentance been said, god help them if they where around in the xbox live days of 2010!

They were, the difference is that around 5 years ago a bunch of "commentators" sprung up like mushrooms and started making a living of being outraged about other people being outraged (or more often just criticizing any sort of blatant racism or sexism in games and later in different media). The truth is the stereotypical "triggered feminist" is little more than a stereotype and the few people who fall close to that characterization have been extremely amplified by people who profit from making fun of them.

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I'd actually like to see more crazy designs. I loved Wolfenstein (not sure which game exactly) where Germany won the WW2 and everything was upside down as we know it. I want more of this in games where things are the way we knoiw them, but all wrong. Similar was Bioshock and it's 1950's setup with a touch of science fiction. We know how 50's looked like, but with all the genetics and splicers around it was messed up experience in a good way.

The term for that is "alternate history". But you do realize both Wolfenstein the new order and Bioshock are extremely political games, right?

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

They were, the difference is that around 5 years ago a bunch of "commentators" sprung up like mushrooms and started making a living of being outraged about other people being outraged (or more often just criticizing any sort of blatant racism or sexism in games and later in different media). The truth is the stereotypical "triggered feminist" is little more than a stereotype and the few people who fall close to that characterization have been extremely amplified by people who profit from making fun of them. 

Extremely true, the perfect counter is to comment our outrage at the outraged commentators being outraged at something that doesn't matter at all.

[Misanthrope]

"The critics are wrong" is such a shit take honestly: it puts Liberal against Liberal in a competition of "Who's got the most social capital" (i.e. Followers and media attention) to "win" the argument.

 

I am sure there can be legit criticism and legit points to be made for or against the game, once it is out for more than a few individuals invested in creating a fake controversy for publicity are involved. However as we have learned from a certain feminist youtuber that shall remain nameless, one can be critical of a medium while enjoying said medium anyway. Even if it seems as "destructive" criticism, it just aims at people to possibly self reflect issues of representation not to cause frivolous boycotts and other nonsense.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

I kinda rest my case then? They make these outrage clickbait "articles" about all the wrongs in the game based on a fucking cinematic trailer...

The article says the demo has "weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes", I don't see a single claim that the article includes "all the wrongs in the game".

[suits]

I'm so sick of SJWs can we not cry racism and sexism about every single thing that doesn't stand up to what our image of equality is, espcially when we ignore racism and sexism when it doesn't fit in our box?

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, RuffRuffmcgruff said:

Extremely true, the perfect counter is to comment our outrage at the outraged commentators being outraged at something that doesn't matter at all.

The problem is that the outraged commentators are also a direct gateway to... less flavory circles. This became bigger than games when they moved from "game x isn't racist lol" to "racism and sexism don't exist and sjws are taking over the world to kill white men".

[Sauron]

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

one can be critical of a medium while enjoying said medium anyway.

Funny how that part always gets ignored

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Funny how that part always gets ignored

"Everything is sexist, everything is racist and you have to point it all out"

 

- Most famous quote taken seriously when the context was specifically to self-deprecate about that very attitude.

[S w a t s o n]

Snoooooooooooooooowwwwwflaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss

[Commodus]

Just now, suits said:

I'm so sick of SJWs can we not cry racism and sexism about every single thing that doesn't stand up to what our image of equality is, espcially when we ignore racism and sexism when it doesn't fit in our box?

We shouldn't give carte blanche to any and all criticism, but we need at least some "SJWs" out there to call out crap from media creators.  And I'd rather have someone be an overzealous (but well-meaning) critic than mindlessly cheer for the status quo.

[Misanthrope]

3 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

Snoooooooooooooooowwwwwflaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss

Sure it's not like transphobia has real world repercussions. (Also notice the dates, these are all current news)

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Sure it's not like transphobia has real world repercussions. (Also notice the dates, these are all current news)

So, what information do you have that investigators don't that proves "transphobia" is even a factor?

 

Because reading a few of those, there is nothing remotely conclusive supporting that it was actually a hate crime.

[The King of the Undead]

to the person who said can we have a game without politics.

minecraft if you play in single player.

[NeuesTestament]

I can't wait for all those "gaming magazines" to go down the drain and those "journalist" to loose their job.

[Reytime]

It's really not the games that are at issue. We people are. We influence each other. Often negatively. Which in return creates more negativity.

 

Games being the way they are is a direct reflection of how we people currently are.

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

I can't wait for all those "gaming magazines" to go down the drain and those "journalist" to loose their job.

*Lose

 

Also, I know you want the gaming media to be nothing more than YouTube rants and thinly veiled ads, but those of us who actually care about objectivity and intelligent discussion understand the importance of preserving journalism, as flawed as it can be at times.

[NeuesTestament]

Just now, Commodus said:

*Lose

 

Also, I know you want the gaming media to be nothing more than YouTube rants and paid ads, but those of us who actually care about objectivity and intelligent discussion understand the importance of preserving journalism, as flawed as it can be at times.

There is nothing of journalistic value to preserve in the ranks of the gaming journalist nowadays. And gaming magazines also do rants and paid ads, so I don't get what your point is.

[RejZoR]

@Sauron

So? Games can be political. I also don't care if developers go after portrayal of certain group of people specifically. Lets say gay people. Just integrate that well into the story, not just throw it in as "gay" and make them scream about it 24/7. Mass Effect Andromeda had that problem and probably wasn't the only one. No one says "Greeting stranger, btw, I'm gay". No one. It doesn't even make any sense for alternate reality, alternate history or whatever.

 

And it was similarly stupid with Battlefield V. They kept saying WW2. Why was everyone so afraid to call it "alternate history/reality WW2 conflict"? Add female disabled commandos with bionic limbs, robot dogs and whatnot, I don't give a shit, just don't call it a "WW2" game then. The theme or idea is not even bad as I already said I loved Wolfensteins screwed up WW2 timeline, but no one was politically correct about it and presented it as something else.

[NumLock21]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Citation needed? Even then, this article was about the trailer - the game isn't out yet.

  Hide contents

 

I've seen much worse. I think it was some Asian washing machine commercial or something. lol

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, Commodus said:

but those of us who actually care about objectivity and intelligent discussion understand the importance of preserving journalism, as flawed as it can be at times.

So you agree with Neues then.

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, NeuesTestament said:

There is nothing of journalistic value to preserve in the ranks of the gaming journalist nowadays. And gaming magazines also do rants and paid ads, so I don't get what your point is.

That first claim is objectively, demonstrably false.  Did you forget the investigation into the problematic development of Anthem, for example?  Investigations into working conditions at studios?  Hardball interviews with executives?  And of course, day-to-day news?

 

The difference is that ads and rants are not the only things those publications do.  I don't want game media to devolve to a simplistic "this game sucks/is the best thing ever" dialogue where we never discuss the social impact of games, where we don't aspire to think of games as anything more than dumb entertainment.  Imagine if movie publications never touched on the art or politics of those movies, if there was no one devoted to investigating the behind-the-scenes machinations.  It'd be a pretty lifeless field.  So why do you want that unthinking, unquestioning approach for games?