[Updated] According to the WSJ Nintendo have started production on the 2 rumoured new Switch models - New Image?

[Trixanity]

32 minutes ago, comander said:

Those were real world prices not that long ago. 

 

The margins on the phone are obviously higher. 

 

Another comparison would be tablets with modems in them, which usually adds $100-150 in price. The engineering there is a bit easier though as there isn't as much of a space and thermal constraint. 

I'm not saying the prices you listed are wrong. I'm saying your conclusion is. Concluding that because the iPhone costs $600 and has an LTE modem whereas the iPod Touch costs $200 and does not have an LTE modem then it means that it costs $400 (or any other 3 digit number) to put an LTE modem into a device. 

It doesn't cost $150 or $100 either. 

 

I've seen estimates that it costs Apple upwards of $4 billion a year for modems. That's like $20 a piece. However the latest data from the lawsuits says $7.50 per device that Apple sends Qualcomm's way for modems. Apple wanted to pay $1.50 by the way.

 

The $100-150 you're talking about is a convenience fee if accurate. The same way Apple charges you an extra $1000 for a 2 TB SSD when in reality it's a $350 upgrade (that's even the retail price meaning it actually costs less). It's just a way to drive profits up.

[Nowak]

9 hours ago, kaiju_wars said:

The build quality isn't a major issue.. certain design aspects were, such as the dock.  Sure.

The screen on my Switch is lifting out of the right side after having a glass screen protector on it for two years. I replaced it with a matte plastic protector to try mitigating it, which it did, but it's still a problem.

 

Granted, I have a "year one" Switch (got mine Christmas 2017) so... there definitely are build quality issues with the Switch, or earlier models at least.

[PlayStation 2]

4 minutes ago, Nowak said:

The screen on my Switch is lifting out of the right side after having a glass screen protector on it for two years. I replaced it with a matte plastic protector to try mitigating it, which it did, but it's still a problem.

 

Granted, I have a "year one" Switch (got mine Christmas 2017) so... there definitely are build quality issues with the Switch, or earlier models at least.

I do remember earlier Switches having build quality issues, but that being said, I wonder if the issue was the screen protector. I haven't used them much but I know both of my brother's Switches feel fine after both of them owning theirs after at least a year and a half.

[Nowak]

8 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I do remember earlier Switches having build quality issues, but that being said, I wonder if the issue was the screen protector. I haven't used them much but I know both of my brother's Switches feel fine after both of them owning theirs after at least a year and a half.

Probably the protector not allowing the plastic of the display to flex as much + heat from the Tegra X1 SoC wearing away the adhesive as time went on. It's disappointing when you consider that the Switch is from the same company who made the Game Boy, Nintendo 64 and GameCube, all of which rival the Nokia 3310 in the "Holy shit why can't I destroy this thing?" test.

 

OT: If Nintendo's making new Switch consoles (and not just minor revisions to the existing Switch, as already exists) then I'd imagine they'll launch around 2020 - 2021. 2019, as analysts seem to want to happen, is far too soon in the Switch's lifespan to refresh it.

[PocketNerd]

Do.... people not know how to use the mobile-hotspot function on there smartphones? And that the Switch can connect to it?

 

... why is this argument even going for this long?

[jiyeon]

I literally just bought a Nintendo Switch two days ago for £259.99...

 

I'm hoping future releases will be supported for the 2017 Switch, because I high-key bought a Switch just to play the upcoming Animal Crossing: New Horizons.

[Suika]

13 minutes ago, seoz said:

I literally just bought a Nintendo Switch two days ago for £259.99...

 

I'm hoping future releases will be supported for the 2017 Switch, because I high-key bought a Switch just to play the upcoming Animal Crossing: New Horizons.

Nintendo and developers typically don't segment consumers between hardware revisions, I can only think of two examples on the Nintendo New 3DS and the game wasn't exactly a hugely popular title.

[Trixanity]

2 hours ago, comander said:

I'm sure you went on Google and found a price and went "AHAA this will show him, $7.50!!!" This excludes the fact that Qualcomm also requires a licensing agreement to use their patents. This means that a percentage of each device, even those not using qualcomm modems, goes to Qualcomm. I'm not sure of the percentage. It might be available in the FTC court case or it might be blocked from public knowledge. All in all it might look more like $7.50 + 3% which would work out to around $40-50 when amortized across all relevant devices. Full disclosure the figures here are rough, BOTE and might be a bit off. 
The cost of Intel's modem, which was generally seen as less energy efficient and lower performing is $20 + licensing fees. It's probably closer to $30-50 all BS (including QA, design, parts like antennas, etc.) considered. 


I'll stick to using my phone for tethering using a USB-C cable and/or WiFi. 


edit: 5% cost; it ended up being $12-20 per device and the $7.50 figure you came up with was only licensing costs net of rebates, not the cost of the actual modem or antennas or design - https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/14/heres-how-much-apple-was-paying-qualcomm-in-royalt.aspx
 

Are you for real? Of course I'd look up some rough numbers. Otherwise I might end up saying LTE modems cost $400. So if you wanna go there then sure. I certainly showed you real good.

 

And another look tells me that we're looking at probably in the $30-40 range total with everything accounted for. That's still a long way from $100, $150 or $400. 

 

Keep in mind that in this case we're talking Qualcomm squeezing Apple and providing them with a flagship modem to boot. A Nintendo could be paying a fair bit less for lower end solution and if the US court system gets their shit together we could be looking at a much cheaper solution. 

[Trixanity]

41 minutes ago, comander said:

Empirically speaking, A LOT of products have a $100 mark up for LTE connectivity and the most famous, well known example would be the $400 mark up that I cited earlier. 

If you have a more well known example, let me know. 

A mark-up and the size of it depends on your brand and business model. Nintendo has a lot of additional revenue streams tied to the main product. They don't have to do a massive mark-up.

 

They could fold the cost into the product price if they intend to drive sales for LTE connectivity. They could raise margins by making it a optional top SKU. It also depends on the target price.

 

I can't imagine a $300 product getting a 33-50% price hike for LTE connectivity alone. It's been a while since I've been in the Nintendo ecosystem but I don't recall them doing price gouging to that level. So at best I see them tying LTE to more upgrades for a higher total price. Like more storage for example. Extra controllers perhaps. Something along those lines to manipulate the value of the higher tier SKU with a supposed LTE addition. That would allow them do a high percentage price increase without pissing off their customers and increase the perceived value without spending much. It could very well end up driving sales to the more expensive SKU (like Apple does with their storage and RAM configurations across product lines; in other words making the entry model less desirable).

 

The problem with making comparisons is that there aren't any truly applicable. Phones and tablets are different to consoles. So are laptops. The markets are totally different, the customers are different, the pricing and business models are different.

I could give you the example of a Samsung wearable costing $50 more with LTE but is that the correct comparison? Don't think so.

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, comander said:

So you can't cite a better real world example from which to draw your conclusions...
Am I incorrect? 

There is no example to draw from because this is new territory. The closest is PS Vita which was 3G for $50 but it was a half assed money grab that they quickly discontinued. However given pricing structures and product category (with no shenanigans) $50 is the most likely candidate.

 

I think you should just go with the assumption that you are incorrect. Always.

[Trixanity]

2 minutes ago, comander said:

first bit - I did edit my post to tone down my own language and to better address your valid points. I should have read your post twice and with greater consideration. 

The first bit you said - the PS Vita does seem to be a very good comparison and I'll cite this as being valid and worthy of discussion. 

The little bit of review skimming essentially came down to : "it's stupid to have the 3G version, just use your phone's hotspot"
I see that as a very legitimate concern. 

Is there any reason for me to not use my phone's hot spot? I always have the thing on me. tethering is free. LTE on a console seems like a recurring expense for near-zero benefit. 

 

It's about convenience. Any device with optional LTE could be answered with "why not use a hotspot?". Certainly laptops and I'd say tablets too. Although I'd agree that the convenience has diminishing returns depending on use case and I'd say it becomes a bit steep when it comes to a game console.

 

Just to note: I don't think LTE would be a huge benefit for a Nintendo console but I've heard people complaining (long ago) about Microsoft's Surface products not having LTE options (disqualifying it from their business use) and them considering hot spots inconvenient so I guess I'm not the target for such a feature. 

 

Tl;dr seems mostly pointless to me but there seems to be a market for it.

[Master Disaster]

12 hours ago, seoz said:

I literally just bought a Nintendo Switch two days ago for £259.99...

 

I'm hoping future releases will be supported for the 2017 Switch, because I high-key bought a Switch just to play the upcoming Animal Crossing: New Horizons.

You should have waited, ACNH doesn't come out till March next year.

 

If the rumours are true it's very unlikely Nintendo will do games specific to one device. It will probably be like the Xbone X & PS4 Pro, everything works on all systems but the higher powered ones can run at better FPS/resolution/graphics etc.

[TheSLSAMG]

On 6/16/2019 at 10:11 AM, Commodus said:

It's a $300 game console meant for everyone from 6-year-olds to 96-year-olds... I'm not sure what you were expecting, a glass back and stainless steel Joy-Cons?

 

It feels just fine; it doesn't creak or otherwise feel cheap.  And I'd rather, y'know, have fun playing games on the Switch than fuss over material choices.  Radical concept, I know!

A glass display would be nice. As far as the plastic chassis, I can get over that easily. I just don't like how easy it is to scratch the Switch's screen, but a tempered glass screen protector solves that cheaply.

[Commodus]

55 minutes ago, TheSLSAMG said:

A glass display would be nice. As far as the plastic chassis, I can get over that easily. I just don't like how easy it is to scratch the Switch's screen, but a tempered glass screen protector solves that cheaply.

Agreed -- I can understand why Nintendo uses plastic (fewer problems if a kid drops the Switch face-first), but it would be nice to have glass now that there are Gorilla Glass formulations designed to resist falls.

[kaiju_wars]

2 hours ago, TheSLSAMG said:

A glass display would be nice. As far as the plastic chassis, I can get over that easily. I just don't like how easy it is to scratch the Switch's screen, but a tempered glass screen protector solves that cheaply.

 

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Agreed -- I can understand why Nintendo uses plastic (fewer problems if a kid drops the Switch face-first), but it would be nice to have glass now that there are Gorilla Glass formulations designed to resist falls.

That's been my only complaint, and it hasn't been much of one cause as with any touchscreen device I own, regardless if it has glass or not, I stuck a tempered glass screen protector on first day.

I live by tempered glass screen protectors after one saved my old HTC One M8.

[jiyeon]

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

You should have waited, ACNH doesn't come out till March next year.

 

If the rumours are true it's very unlikely Nintendo will do games specific to one device. It will probably be like the Xbone X & PS4 Pro, everything works on all systems but the higher powered ones can run at better FPS/resolution/graphics etc.

I don't regret my choice, I wanted to get into the Switch for a while, it was only recently that I had the inkling (no pun intended) to pick one up for myself after getting back into a job. I also recently just threw away my old PlayStation 4 so naturally I wanted to replace it.

 

I'm still interested in the rumours regardless, in particular how the new models - if they are confirmed - compare in terms of performance and battery life to the 2017 Switch, and also the pricepoint these new ones will come with.

 

Fun fact, Animal Crossing: New Horizons comes out 11 days before my 20th birthday so it'll be a nice early birthday present.

[maartendc]

On 6/16/2019 at 6:01 AM, huilun02 said:

Production probably went to Vietnam

Although I would not even begin to consider a Switch unless its built like a proper mobile device instead of the plastic kid's toy

Id rather have it be plastic and $300, rather than a piece of crap overpriced phone with metal and glass that costs $800 and breaks the first time you drop it.

[maartendc]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:58 AM, Zodiark1593 said:

For what it is, it's fine. However, the price on the Switch (currently) is far too high for me to ever consider. Needs to be at $150 or lower, brand new.

Its never going to be priced that low. While the thing probably costs a lot less to make, Nintendo has to earn back the RNd costs they sunk into the device, the joycons, the dock etc.

 

On 6/16/2019 at 10:21 AM, huilun02 said:

Glass with larger screen coverage, higher brightness IPS screen for outdoor use, aluminium body, 4g modem.

Couldn't care less about the detachable stuff.

Y'know, stuff easily found on a ~$200 budget 2016 Chinese smartphone?

 

Comparing this to a $200 budget smartphone is just apples and oranges. You can piece together a budget smartphone from off the shelf Chinese crap parts, off the shelf software, etc. This thing is an entirely new class of device, new controller mechanisms, can be used dockless and mobile, runs custom software, way bigger screen than a phone, etc. etc. etc. totally different thing. Not to mention the hardware in a $200 phone is usually crap, this runs a pretty powerful Tegra chip.

 

In terms of price, you need to compare this to a Sony PS Vita or PS4 or Xbox One. And the price is competitive against those. Those are at least devices in the same market segment doing the same tasks.

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, seoz said:

I don't regret my choice, I wanted to get into the Switch for a while, it was only recently that I had the inkling (no pun intended) to pick one up for myself after getting back into a job. I also recently just threw away my old PlayStation 4 so naturally I wanted to replace it.

 

I'm still interested in the rumours regardless, in particular how the new models - if they are confirmed - compare in terms of performance and battery life to the 2017 Switch, and also the pricepoint these new ones will come with.

 

Fun fact, Animal Crossing: New Horizons comes out 11 days before my 20th birthday so it'll be a nice early birthday present.

Brilliant, the main thing is that you're happy with the purchase.

 

Also Golf Story is such a good indie title on Switch and Mario Maker 2 in under 2 weeks.

[Master Disaster]

Updated OP with new information

[Technous285]

Regarding that "render", apparently it's been seen elsewhere around the net as a fan-made mockup of what the creator thinks a non-switching Switch would look like with the controls built-in as part of the body.

 

The subject came up the other day as I was watching a stream and it was pointed out the "render" from this "Chinese company" has been floating around for a while already.