NAS Upgrade Thoughts

[dual290x]

So I am looking at upgrading my NAS. It has not been in use for a while for certain reasons. I am going to use Unraid to replace OMV, and I am not planning on changing that as I have thought about it for some time (thanks @Windows7ge). Now, I am looking at using this hardware and would like y'alls opinions on it. I know the drives are not NAS drives but it will be a start. I currently own the case, the psu, and over half the drives. The rest will be purchased either through ebay or the parties given by pcpartpicker. I chose the MB and CPU for price, "future proofing" as well as power sipping ability.

 

I am looking at using Nextcloud in a docker as my college google drive is about to expire and I would like to continue to have my unlimited cloud storage. If anyone has any experience with nextcloud or can recommend anything better please let me know. I am also looking at getting a 10gbe nic and an HBA card. If anyone can recommend either please let me know.

 

Don't hold the punches, let me know what you think. Thank you in advance.

[Guest]

Might have a 1225 v3 in my office nonsense drawer. I'll look on Monday. If I do, you can have it.

[dual290x]

4 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

Might have a 1225 v3 in my office nonsense drawer. I'll look on Monday. If I do, you can have it.

PM me when you get the chance. Thank you!

[Electronics Wizardy]

If your running unraid, no reason to get the same drives, id just get a good deal on drives. I dont' see a reason to buy black drives, but they will work fine if you have them already.

 

If your buying drives, id get those 8tb externals drives for like $130(look on amazon and the like)

 

Stock cooler will be fine here, these chips don't make much heat.

 

If its just a nas, 8gb will be fine, id go 16gb mostly if your running other stuff. 

[dual290x]

6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

If your running unraid, no reason to get the same drives, id just get a good deal on drives. I dont' see a reason to buy black drives, but they will work fine if you have them already.

 

Stock cooler will be fine here, these chips don't make much heat.

 

If its just a nas, 8gb will be fine, id go 16gb mostly if your running other stuff. 

Noted about same drives.

I was worried about noise, you think the stock cooler will be fine?

You think 8gb will be fine even with a docker or even a small vm?

[Windows7ge]

I might discourage against that PSU. I'd recommend finding a RMi or RMx series and probably >= 600W. Reason being I have to assume all 10 of these drives are going to be in the same server and although they may not all be spinning at the same time with UnRAID upon system startup I don't think you'll have Staggered Spin-up. This will result in a high current draw from the PSU which if it cannot handle it will either cause the over-current protection to trip or reduce it's effective lifespan. Also since I have to assume the server will be on 24/7 you might want something better than the CSM series anyways.

 

My dual socket 2670 server which currently has 13 HDDs in it is using a RMi 850W and has been rock solid for the more than 1.5 years it's been running. You won't need that much for an E3 but that high initial current draw would make me want more than 550W. Of course as the disks get up to speed the current demand will drop significantly.

 

Another other question is your choice of RAM. I've never heard of Wintec. Looking around you can find DDR3(L) UDIMM ECC memory from Crucial, NEMIX, & Kingwin for about $50 cheaper. Though the Wintec brand does appear to use hynix chips so that's good they're not some off-brand no name.

 

I assume the SSDs are going to be a read/write cache for the pools? I'd look into ones designed for server use Samsung has a Enterprise Series, Intel has a DC/D3 series, and Seagate has a Nytro series. The Server/Enterprise series SSDs are built to withstand a lot more read/write operations than there desktop counterparts and often incorporate wear leveling better which keeps the SSD working longer as bits become unusable.

 

If you are going to buy 10 hard drives you might as well go for the cheaper of the two instead of buying both unless you're trying to avoid potential mass failure where a unexpected design flaw may take out one or the other. Instead of going for more desktop oriented drives you can look into Seagates Ironwolf NAS or Ironwolf compute drives. On WD side you can look into their WD Red/Red Pro drives or WD Gold. Again the idea here isn't that you'll see more performance in comparison to WD Black or Barracuda but that you'll have higher reliability and longevity. They also often come will longer included warranties often 5 years as oppose two 2 or 3.

 

Those are just my opinions of course. This would also increase your bill by probably a couple $100.

[dual290x]

28 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

I might discourage against that PSU. I'd recommend finding a RMi or RMx series and probably >= 600W. Reason being I have to assume all 10 of these drives are going to be in the same server and although they may not all be spinning at the same time with UnRAID upon system startup I don't think you'll have Staggered Spin-up.

Another other question is your choice of RAM. I've never heard of Wintec. Looking around you can find DDR3(L) UDIMM ECC memory from Crucial, NEMIX, & Kingwin for about $50 cheaper.

I assume the SSDs are going to be a read/write cache for the pools? I'd look into ones designed for server use

If you are going to buy 10 hard drives you might as well go for the cheaper of the two instead of buying both unless you're trying to avoid potential mass failure where a unexpected design flaw may take out one or the other. Instead of going for more desktop oriented drives you can look into Seagates Ironwolf NAS or Ironwolf compute drives.  They also often come will longer included warranties often 5 years as oppose two 2 or 3.

Those are just my opinions of course. This would also increase your bill by probably a couple $100.

I will look into another psu, I will use this one for the time being until I buy more drives. I will probably buy four nas drives and a psu within 8 months of building.

Ram wise, I will buy maybe samsung, crucial or some other name brand ecc (might as well use it) on ebay or buy a single 8gb stick through pcpartpicker.

NAS drives are coming, I figured they would be good place holders until I can buy nas drives then resale them as I replace them. I was planning on staggering them so I can keep failure throughout the system at a minimum.

Enterprise ssds... interesting. I will take a look. Do you think the SSDs that I have/purchasing will hold up until I buy them?

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 hour ago, dual290x said:

Noted about same drives.

I was worried about noise, you think the stock cooler will be fine?

You think 8gb will be fine even with a docker or even a small vm?

Ram relly depends on what your doing in docker and the vm, how much ram does your tasks need?

 

Stock coolers are almost silent on the quiet mode in bios and will cool those low power chips fine. 

 

38 minutes ago, dual290x said:

Enterprise ssds... interesting. I will take a look. Do you think the SSDs that I have/purchasing will hold up until I buy them?

For a home nas it won't matter, you just won't be writting enough for it to matter.

 

Id probably only use the one ssd here, chance of dual failure is pretty low.

 

38 minutes ago, dual290x said:

Ram wise, I will buy maybe samsung, crucial or some other name brand ecc (might as well use it) on ebay or buy a single 8gb stick through pcpartpicker.

Id personally be darn tempted to forget ecc, and get a newer platform like a 2200g or a new pentium/celeron.

[dual290x]

47 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Ram relly depends on what your doing in docker and the vm, how much ram does your tasks need?

Stock coolers are almost silent on the quiet mode in bios and will cool those low power chips fine.

 

For a home nas it won't matter, you just won't be writting enough for it to matter.

Id probably only use the one ssd here, chance of dual failure is pretty low.

 

Id personally be darn tempted to forget ecc, and get a newer platform like a 2200g or a new pentium/celeron.

The docker will be nextcloud, and a vm might be something light (not a windows machine or anything like that, it is unknown at this time just keeping options open, more ram can always be purchased.

Noted on cooler.

I will look further into it.

If Den-Fi has the 1225 I am looking at, then I will stick with the original plan, if not I will see. I really like the Asrock server board as it keeps my options open with a third x8 slot. I figure if I can use the ECC why not get some, but I will not go out of my way or empty my wallet just for it.

 

I appreciate the input/thought.

[Windows7ge]

1 hour ago, dual290x said:

Do you think the SSDs that I have/purchasing will hold up until I buy them?

Yes. There's nothing inherently wrong with using consumer SSDs it's just a personal preference of mine to go with hardware more suited for server use when applicable. As stated by Electronics Wizardry you most likely wont be writing enough data to them to REALLY make enterprise SSDs a solid recommendation but if you can find them on sale or something I'd definitely go for them over any old desktop ones. My pure SSD server is using 12 Intel DC 4500's and a Intel D3 S4610. The cost of them have come down a bit and often aren't all that more expensive than their desktop counterparts.

[Electronics Wizardy]

12 minutes ago, dual290x said:

The docker will be nextcloud, and a vm might be something light (not a windows machine or anything like that, it is unknown at this time just keeping options open, more ram can always be purchased.

you really dont need much ram then, nextcloud for a home users needs very litt.e

 

 

[dual290x]

@Electronics Wizardy, @Windows7ge, and @Den-Fi

After a very nice offer I must change boards.

I am looking at these two boards and need to chose. It has to be matx. If you can think of anything else please feel free to make a suggestion.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/YwcMnQ/asrock-e3c232d4u-v1l-micro-atx-lga1151-motherboard-e3c232d4u-v1l

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/nwcMnQ/asrock-c236m-ws-micro-atx-lga1151-motherboard-c236m-ws

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233229837303

Edited June 19, 2019 by dual290x
Add-on

[Windows7ge]

Of the two the C236M WS has more of just about everything for only a little more cost although it doesn't appear to have IPMI. So you can have remote management and potentially need an HBA & NIC down the road or no IPMI but you have extra SATA ports & an extra NIC.

 

[dual290x]

29 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Of the two the C236M WS has more of just about everything for only a little more cost although it doesn't appear to have IPMI. So you can have remote management and potentially need an HBA & NIC down the road or no IPMI but you have extra SATA ports & an extra NIC.

 

Noted. Would you mind looking at the third one I found? Always thankful for your time.

[Windows7ge]

4 minutes ago, dual290x said:

Noted. Would you mind looking at the third one I found? Always thankful for your time.

That looks pretty good, you'll still need an HBA also it seems it probably wont come with any I/O shield.

[dual290x]

1 hour ago, Windows7ge said:

That looks pretty good, you'll still need an HBA also it seems it probably wont come with any I/O shield.

It will save me money and I could still afford a 9211 8i.

With an I/O shield, I don't see it being a deal breaker. They aren't "required". I think I am going to pull the trigger, unless someone has a good reason for me not to.

[Guest]

Agree w/ @Windows7ge about the importance of IPMI. Will save you a lot of hair.

Just annoyed that SuperMicro charges $25 to enable BIOS updates via IPMI.

[Windows7ge]

44 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

Agree w/ @Windows7ge about the importance of IPMI. Will save you a lot of hair.

Just annoyed that SuperMicro charges $25 to enable BIOS updates via IPMI.

I'm annoyed that when you're a peasant consumer Supermicro charges you the value of the motherboard to perform a cross shipment if you need to RMA the board and they tell you in the agreement you have to sign that they hold the right to not refund you, not ship back the defective board, or just give you a refurbished board as a replacement.

 

I learned that when the X540-T2 on my X10DRi-T was defective.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Windows7ge said:

I'm annoyed that when you're a peasant consumer Supermicro charges you the value of the motherboard to perform a cross shipment if you need to RMA the board and they tell you in the agreement you have to sign that they hold the right to not refund you, not ship back the defective board, or just give you a refurbished board as a replacement.

 

I learned that when the X540-T2 on my X10DRi-T was defective.

Whew, that's annoying. This is my first experience w/ SuperMicro since I typically don't go custom when it comes to servers unless it's my test lab.

[dual290x]

1 hour ago, Den-Fi said:

Agree w/ @Windows7ge about the importance of IPMI. Will save you a lot of hair.

Just annoyed that SuperMicro charges $25 to enable BIOS updates via IPMI.

Updates can wait till I'm home... but wtf?

1 hour ago, Windows7ge said:

I'm annoyed that when you're a peasant consumer Supermicro charges you the value of the motherboard to perform a cross shipment if you need to RMA the board and they tell you in the agreement you have to sign that they hold the right to not refund you, not ship back the defective board, or just give you a refurbished board as a replacement.

 

I learned that when the X540-T2 on my X10DRi-T was defective.

MSI does the same thing. My orginal z97 krait died and they did the same thing when I shipped it in. It pissed me off.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dual290x said:

Updates can wait till I'm home... but wtf?

It's not about that. My test lab rack is small and I don't want to spend a ton on a pull out KVM and I don't want to connect a monitor, so IPMI is excellent for things like that.

[dual290x]

Just now, Den-Fi said:

It's not about that. My test lab rack is small and I don't want to spend a ton on a pull out KVM and I don't want to connect a monitor, so IPMI is excellent for things like that.

Gotcha. Yeah, I can see that. 

[Windows7ge]

48 minutes ago, Den-Fi said:

Whew, that's annoying. This is my first experience w/ SuperMicro since I typically don't go custom when it comes to servers unless it's my test lab.

It's why for future builds unless I need a feature that is specific to Supermicro I plan to go back to ASRock Rack. They have served my purposes well and have your standard RMA procedure.

[dual290x]

What do y'all make of this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-16GB-2-X-8GB-Kingston-KTH-PL316E-8G-8GB-PC3-12800E-2Rx8-ECC-UnBuffered-RAM/123804806833?hash=item1cd3576eb1:g:masAAOSwmcNdBtt0

 

When buying new... I can't blame you for wanting to go with someone like ASrock, I actually prefer that board of the MSI.