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DarkDragon2K04

Xbox project scarlett price

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Posted · Original PosterOP

With this whole talk about SSDs,Zen 2 cpus, Navi custom gpus and then "4k 120fps", "8K" and all the rest how can we be sure that this will come at less than $700. Ok let's get rational here, an SSD will bump the price, these cpus and gpus are coming at prices of $300 - $500 although they will get them for a little bit cheaper but you know they have to make profit. Then there is the chasis the whole manufacturing process. With all this how can these come otu for aorung $400

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2 minutes ago, DarkDragon2K04 said:

but you know they have to make profit

Usually console manufacturer don't

Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have all stated that they have taken losses to inject the new products into the market 

 

To me, it wouldn't make sense within the current market to release a console double the price of the current hardware. That's almost a WiiU situation all over again.


𝓗𝓲 𝓱𝓸𝔀 𝓪𝓻𝓮 𝔂a

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You're forgetting a lot here:

 

  1. We don't know the size of the SSD. 256GB SSDs and 1TB SSDs are drastically different in price.
  2. 4K 120 FPS in what? Tetris? The menu? 
  3. 4K with checkerboarding or without?
  4. Who says there will only be one configuration? Maybe one with a 1TB HDD and one with a 512GB SSD?
  5. No, they don't have to make a profit. They didn't with their first console. They made a profit with the games and accessories.
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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Senzelian said:

You're forgetting a lot here:

 

  1. We don't know the size of the SSD. 256GB SSDs and 1TB SSDs are drastically different in price.
  2. 4K 120 FPS in what? Tetris? The menu? 
  3. 4K with checkerboarding or without?
  4. Who says there will only be one configuration? Maybe one with a 1TB HDD and one with a 512GB SSD?
  5. No, they don't have to make a profit. They didn't with their first console. They made a profit with the games and accessories.

1. No one wants a 256gb ssd for gaming

2. there is no need for 120fps TVs often come at 60fps and BFGDs arent so popular and people wouldnt just go out running to buy them because of that

3.

4.

5. Come on they know they do business has changed 

And dont act like the price of these zen 2 cpus + a navi gpu wouldnt be more than $600

and then they still have to add ram a drive turn the chips into an SOC most likely all of that. And even if they dont want to make profit what of the Playstation faithfuls out there sony will want to make profit

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6 minutes ago, DarkDragon2K04 said:

And dont act like the price of these zen 2 cpus + a navi gpu wouldnt be more than $600

Probably going to be much less than $600. I don't know the exact price on these chips, but there probably getting a great deal.

 

7 minutes ago, DarkDragon2K04 said:

Come on they know they do business has changed 

They make a cut from all the sales of games and other services and products, they how they make they their money back.

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6 minutes ago, DarkDragon2K04 said:

1. No one wants a 256gb ssd for gaming

2. there is no need for 120fps TVs often come at 60fps and BFGDs arent so popular and people wouldnt just go out running to buy them because of that

3.

4.

5. Come on they know they do business has changed 

And dont act like the price of these zen 2 cpus + a navi gpu wouldnt be more than $600

and then they still have to add ram a drive turn the chips into an SOC most likely all of that. And even if they dont want to make profit what of the Playstation faithfuls out there sony will want to make profit

  1. No one wanted Windows 8...
  2. The media went crazy as soon as they heard buzzwords like 8K and 120FPS. Mission accomplished.
  3.  
  4.  
  5. Mass production.
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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Probably going to be much less than $600. I don't know the exact price on these chips, but there probably getting a great deal.

 

I don't think the deal would be that good that both would be less that $600 combined

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1 minute ago, DarkDragon2K04 said:

I don't think the deal would be that good that both would be less that $600 combined

Im still betting the cost of the chip will be well under 600 for microsoft. It doesn't included the extra cooler and box and warranty that the retail parts have, and there is normally a lower margin on these semi custom sales..

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Posted · Original PosterOP
11 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Im still betting the cost of the chip will be well under 600 for microsoft. 

Yes microsoft will get the chips for cheaper prices of course

 

12 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

It doesn't included the extra cooler and box and warranty that the retail parts have, and there is normally a lower margin on these semi custom sales..

Firstly how much can a box cost. You say it like a box bumps the price up $100 and they will still have to be packaged from AMD to microsft one way or the other.

Even if there is no cooler Microsoft will still have to add fans to it.

After the price for the chips there is still price for the other parts - the ram, drive, rest of mobo, PSU, chasis

There is still the money that goes into testing, manufacturing, testing and many other things.

How are peopel thinking this will ccome at less than $600.

If such performance of zen 2 and navi gpus can be gotten at these prices then prices of gaming laptops should be questioned

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One thing everyone needs to consider is who this console is for. Lets look at the facts. 

 

1) While 4k will be massively adopted by the end of 2020 LESS THAN 10% will have a television capable of 120 FPS. The people that do own one will have paid a HEFTY price for it as televisions that carry the 2.1 HDMI standard that allows 4k@120fps will be strictly limited to flagship models. 

2) 8k Televisions will be available but with a nice hefty early adopters price tax attached.

3) The Xbox One X will receive some sort of discount dropping it below $300 and possibly under $250.

4) In the video announcing Project Scarlett they flat out said they are NOT building this console to sell a bunch of units. They are building it to create the best possible user experience. 

5) The Playstation 5 doesn't come out till 2021. 

6) In 2020 when this drops you will not be able to build a PC capable of 4k @ 120fps with HDR and Ray Tracing for less than $800.

 

So lets put a few of these things together.

 

First, For a majority of people the best choice of Xbox next year WILL NOT be Project Scarlett. It will be the One X. Its cheaper to manufacture and for 90% of buyers they won't even be able to use the new Xbox for its new capabilities anyway. So Micosofts target audience will only be that 8% early adopters with the 4k 120fps monitors and TV's and the 1-2% that bought a super expensive 8k TV. Its no secret to these early adopters already know they are paying a premium for this technology. So, the people that would complain about a $600 + price point aren't ones who would own a television capable of using this console to its fullest potential to warrant getting it anyway. 

 

Second, Microsoft has no incentive to take a MUCH heavier loss on the console to sell it below $600 when they don't have to compete with Sony for another year. In fact I'd be willing to be that the ENTIRE reason for releasing it to these earlier adopters is so they can get their manufacturing process down and you can't do that without manufacturing to begin with. Then in 2021 when the Playstation 5 is released Microsoft can offer Project Scarlett MUCH cheaper than Sony can offer the new playstation. Weather or not this is Microsofts reason I have no clue but this WILL happen.

 

In summary,  for this next year though Microsoft doesn't have to sell a bunch of units. They don't WANT to sell a bunch of units. Theres no one competing in 2020 so why throw away more money, and for what, to move an xbox most people can't even fully use? No, what they WANT is to find a way to make this console cheaper so they can destroy their opponents the following year if with nothing else than with the price. Strangely enough, 2021 is when we WILL start seeing more reasonably priced televisions with 4k @ 120fps and 8k. Its almost like everyone at Xbox is doing this all on purpose, right?

 

Edit: I want to actually go out on a limb here really quick and say that Microsoft, even at a $600+ price point up to a certain number of units,  would rather NOT sell more units. In 2021 when everyone is making their Xbox vs Playstation decisions that even at a discount below $600 or $500 that their margins will STILL be better than it will be after its first launched in 2020. So while they want to get their manufacturing price down by selling to early adopters, they'd rather most people wait till 2021. 

 

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On 6/14/2019 at 9:13 PM, Downside83 said:

 

5) The Playstation 5 doesn't come out till 2021. 

 

Really? I would have thought that they'd be releasing in the fall of 2020 like Microsoft. The only reference I found was an WSJ article from last year (2018). The CEO wanted change the upgrade cycle, something we have heard from Microsoft before. Since then the CEO has reportedly said not in at least 12 months, which would the second half of 2020 still on the table.

 

While this means very little, Sony has already been "showing off" to investors how the PS5 is going to be superior to the PS4Pro. Now this is of course a demo likely using PC hardware, but to be demonstrating this to investors while letting Microsoft get a head start on the next gen console wars seems like a gamble.

 

I am inclined to think that they wanted to do 2021, or later release, but have possibly rethought that strategy. There really isn't anything to back up my thinking so I guess we will just have to wait and see.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 6/15/2019 at 2:13 AM, Downside83 said:

One thing everyone needs to consider is who this console is for. Lets look at the facts. 

 

1) While 4k will be massively adopted by the end of 2020 LESS THAN 10% will have a television capable of 120 FPS. The people that do own one will have paid a HEFTY price for it as televisions that carry the 2.1 HDMI standard that allows 4k@120fps will be strictly limited to flagship models. 

2) 8k Televisions will be available but with a nice hefty early adopters price tax attached.

3) The Xbox One X will receive some sort of discount dropping it below $300 and possibly under $250.

4) In the video announcing Project Scarlett they flat out said they are NOT building this console to sell a bunch of units. They are building it to create the best possible user experience. 

5) The Playstation 5 doesn't come out till 2021. 

6) In 2020 when this drops you will not be able to build a PC capable of 4k @ 120fps with HDR and Ray Tracing for less than $800.

 

So lets put a few of these things together.

 

First, For a majority of people the best choice of Xbox next year WILL NOT be Project Scarlett. It will be the One X. Its cheaper to manufacture and for 90% of buyers they won't even be able to use the new Xbox for its new capabilities anyway. So Micosofts target audience will only be that 8% early adopters with the 4k 120fps monitors and TV's and the 1-2% that bought a super expensive 8k TV. Its no secret to these early adopters already know they are paying a premium for this technology. So, the people that would complain about a $600 + price point aren't ones who would own a television capable of using this console to its fullest potential to warrant getting it anyway. 

 

Second, Microsoft has no incentive to take a MUCH heavier loss on the console to sell it below $600 when they don't have to compete with Sony for another year. In fact I'd be willing to be that the ENTIRE reason for releasing it to these earlier adopters is so they can get their manufacturing process down and you can't do that without manufacturing to begin with. Then in 2021 when the Playstation 5 is released Microsoft can offer Project Scarlett MUCH cheaper than Sony can offer the new playstation. Weather or not this is Microsofts reason I have no clue but this WILL happen.

 

In summary,  for this next year though Microsoft doesn't have to sell a bunch of units. They don't WANT to sell a bunch of units. Theres no one competing in 2020 so why throw away more money, and for what, to move an xbox most people can't even fully use? No, what they WANT is to find a way to make this console cheaper so they can destroy their opponents the following year if with nothing else than with the price. Strangely enough, 2021 is when we WILL start seeing more reasonably priced televisions with 4k @ 120fps and 8k. Its almost like everyone at Xbox is doing this all on purpose, right?

 

Edit: I want to actually go out on a limb here really quick and say that Microsoft, even at a $600+ price point up to a certain number of units,  would rather NOT sell more units. In 2021 when everyone is making their Xbox vs Playstation decisions that even at a discount below $600 or $500 that their margins will STILL be better than it will be after its first launched in 2020. So while they want to get their manufacturing price down by selling to early adopters, they'd rather most people wait till 2021. 

 

I totaly agree with you

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On 6/14/2019 at 10:56 PM, DarkDragon2K04 said:

5. Come on they know they do business has changed

You're not wrong, but it has changed in Sony's favour:

 

For one., the PS3 didn't sell at a profit for the first five years of its lifespan. Their earnings model does not necessarily have to include turning a profit on the console. They earn through game sales and (another new development) subscription models. Besides, selling console units at a loss is only going to hit once, after which cuts from game sales (or sales from first-party titles) will work to pay back for the money lost up front.

 

Secondly, consumer MSRP is not the same as corporate component pricing.

 

Thirdly and more importantly, we currently live in a world in which it is becoming normal to spend upwards of $800 on a new piece of consumer electronics. We tend to have more of a tolerance for higher-priced electronics than we used to. My guess would be that we'll see a $499 and a $599 option at launch and whether or not that would end up being a bad thing for Sony will depend entirely on the amount of quality games available.

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Wasn't the last console (ps4/XbO) a breakeven console generation as the companies didn't want to heavily subsidies the price as compared to the ps3/xb360 days?

 

I do think the price will be $499.

 

You might see cheaper models ranging from $399 to $599 though depending on features and whether they will have different performance tiers.

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