McDonald's Paper Straws - Yes or No? ( Edit: Mc DonaldsPaper Straws are now officially non-recylable)

[Tog Driver]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

It doesn't matters what you think,

I know.

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the statistics I posted are not countered by what you think

I know. . .

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and they clearly show how much of a non fucking issue plastic straws are when it comes to water pollution.

Yes, I noticed there is nothing labeled "plastic straws" in the pollution graph.

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The problem is that you are just assuming that we should worry about plastic straws

I never actually said that, I mean if we could magically stop using plastic straws we should though.

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and I am saying we do not need to [Argue about plastic straws] we have much bigger issues.

I agree.

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I made an argument specifically to this point and you basically just ignored it by saying "But we might still be able to do something about the thing you just said isn't really an issue without demonstrating why it is a concern"

I'm Sorry, I seem to have misrepresented myself somehow.

 

I'll try and explain:

6 hours ago, Tog Driver said:

Huh, I, I didn't think of it like that,

I never really thought about what you were saying before.

 

6 hours ago, Tog Driver said:

if everyone arguing about plastic straws

I was agreeing with you, all these people are arguing about something that has almost no greater impact.

6 hours ago, Tog Driver said:

 if everyone arguing about plastic straws would instead be pressuring corporations it might make a whole lot of difference. 

if nobody was talking about the almost no impact plastic straws, and were instead complaining about corporations, the corporations might stop polluting so much.

[handymanshandle]

I'd tolerate a wax coated paper straw I think. I just don't like the idea of having paper in my mouth lol

[dalekphalm]

I think it comes down to this - yes, straws make up a statistically irrelevant and insignificant amount of plastic ocean pollution.

 

And yes, we should focus on the biggest offenders.

 

But most people didn't give a shit at all about plastic ocean pollution until recently. Sure, if someone brought it up and they thought about it, they'd dislike it. But they'd go back to forgetting about it right away.

 

At least now, we're having the conversation - socially - about plastic pollution. Laws are being enacted. Change is happening. Sure, the change is small (borderline insignificant), but it's still happening. This is just the start.

 

Now that people are aware of the straw problem (which as we noted, is a very small problem, globally), we can more easily broach other related problems, and how to solve them (such as the fishing net problem).

 

It's a place to start - but more importantly, it's a place to build off of.

 

Yes, I do think we should pressure corporations to be more environmentally responsible. We should also push our legislators to enact laws to punish or force companies to be better. But starting with straws is by no means a bad thing. It gets the ball rolling.

 

And wasting time arguing that it doesn't do enough, is frankly, not helping anything. Rather than arguing that it's not enough, why not build from this, and start talking to people about the bigger issues as well.

[TempestCatto]

Honestly after having to use paper straws predominately, I don't actually mind them much. What does discourage me though is that sometimes I want to reuse the straw I'm currently using for another drink, but it's too far gone and starts turning into a slight pulpy texture. I otherwise just don't care what's provided for me, I won't go out of my way to have one over the other.

[RejZoR]

Paper cups are processed in such a way that you sometimes wonder if they are even paper. They don't leak, get soggy even after extended periods of time, but are still just paper (or cardboard). Don't see why we couldn't make straws the same.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Paper cups are processed in such a way that you sometimes wonder if they are even paper. They don't leak, get soggy even after extended periods of time, but are still just paper (or cardboard). Don't see why we couldn't make straws the same.

They're not just paper. They're coated in Wax, typically.

[RejZoR]

33 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

They're not just paper. They're coated in Wax, typically.

Only 22 PAP coded are waxed. 20 and 21 aren't.

[The King of the Undead]

could somebody post the reddit post where it's "we no longer offer plastic straws" and the sign is surrounded by plastic silverware?

[dalekphalm]

14 hours ago, will1432 said:

could somebody post the reddit post where it's "we no longer offer plastic straws" and the sign is surrounded by plastic silverware?

Plastic silverware is recyclable. Plastic straws aren’t. 

 

Aside from that, plastic silverware is almost certainly going to be included in the 2021 plastics ban in Canada. 

[wANKER]

I've used paper straws before that worked fine. 

McDonald's? Simply don't work as a straw. After about 2 minutes the end just turns to mush and you can't use the bastard thing. 

(at least in the UK)

 

They'd be better off just putting a drinking hole in the lid or something

[Donut417]

I stopped eating fast food for the most part. If I do go to Jimmy Johns or something I dont get a beverage. Because frankly I haven't drank pop/soda in 3 years. I drink some high quality H2O. The fact of the matter is, I tend to go to more sit down joints. I could give a shit less if they give me a straw. I think beverages need to move to aluminum cans, as they generally can be recycled easily. I think that people should be allowed to bring their own cup to a fast food place and just have it filled up with the amount of pop/soda that they paid for. OR instead just do cans, hell if the Arizona beverage company can use big ass cans for their tea, then Coke and Pepsi and do the same. Same thing goes for bottle water, just put it in a can. OR glass in some cases, like for Milk and such (I dont drink milk either). OH and my mom buy yogurt that comes in class containers, so thats how you do yogurt. 

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I stopped eating fast food for the most part. If I do go to Jimmy Johns or something I dont get a beverage. Because frankly I haven't drank pop/soda in 3 years. I drink some high quality H2O. The fact of the matter is, I tend to go to more sit down joints. I could give a shit less if they give me a straw. I think beverages need to move to aluminum cans, as they generally can be recycled easily. I think that people should be allowed to bring their own cup to a fast food place and just have it filled up with the amount of pop/soda that they paid for. OR instead just do cans, hell if the Arizona beverage company can use big ass cans for their tea, then Coke and Pepsi and do the same. Same thing goes for bottle water, just put it in a can. OR glass in some cases, like for Milk and such (I dont drink milk either). OH and my mom buy yogurt that comes in class containers, so thats how you do yogurt. 

If Pop came in glass bottles (like the old days... and like today but way more expensive), they could do a bottle return program (Beer does this in Ontario. Every beer bottle that is returned gets reused, assuming it's still in good shape - and they can be reused dozens of times).

 

Cans are more easily recyclable, I assume, yes, but better to reuse than to recycle.

 

Although glass would increase the cost of the Pop.

 

Pop already comes in both Aluminum cans or plastic bottles. They even make "King sized" cans (not quite Arizona size, but pretty close) - I think they're 473 mL (as opposed to a standard can - 355 mL).

[Suika]

23 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

If Pop came in glass bottles (like the old days... and like today but way more expensive), they could do a bottle return program (Beer does this in Ontario. Every beer bottle that is returned gets reused, assuming it's still in good shape - and they can be reused dozens of times).

Even if you don't reuse glass bottles, say they crack, chip, or are just entirely unusable, their are programs that break glass down to help replenish sand. So another point for the glass bottle.

[Anghammarad]

As for turning back in bottles...

 

here in germany we have a system for that for many years now. For every bottle you buy, no matter if alcoholic or just a soda, glass or plastic, you pay a little extra. That extra you get back when you turn the empty bottle back in. We call that Pfand. Depending on the material of the bottle it ranges from € 0,15 up to € 0.25.

 

I usually get my 7 euros back when turning them back in to the store. 

 

As addition... there are some stores that take only back the bottles they sell. Others take everything with a "Pfand" code on them. 

 

On festivities/fairs you now often get reuseable plastic cups as well and pay "pfand" on them as well. But that one is more hefty, because on fairs bringing back a cup is for some quite annoying, and those things cost quite a bit. But it keeps the litter bins a little bit emptier and the surroundings cleaner.

 

There are some one use glass bottles around here as well, for those we have special containers to throw them in. Yes they mostly break, but that doesn't worry, because that one use glass things get molten and reused. 

 

As for cups and straws... I got myself 2 reuse coffee "to go" cups... one insulated, one without insulation. Every morning for my drive to work I prepare my own cappuccino and don't buy one with a cardboard cup and plastic lid... So usually I spend less that way and don't waste ressources. One of our local bakery chains even sell their own reuseable cup which you can clean yourself and bring back in to get your coffee into that, instead of using a paper cup. 

 

As for plastic bags... yes they are cheap, but I tend to bring my own cloth bags or the "little" IKEA shopping bag, and when I'm to stupid to take them with me, when I know I go shopping later the day, well then I pay the idiot tax and buy a new cloth bag, or a little cheaper a paper bag. Yes it does cost... but being stupid... well... you know..

 

 

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

they could do a bottle return program (Beer does this in Ontario. Every beer bottle that is returned gets reused, assuming it's still in good shape - and they can be reused dozens of times).

We do this with all carbonated beverages in Michigan. Doesnt matter if its plastic, glass or cans. Actually to make sure most of us lazy bastards take these back to the store, we have to pay a 10 cent deposit on all carbonated beverages. We get this 10 cents back when we take the containers back. The issue? Not all products are taken back by all stores. So if you buy Meijer branded carbonated water, you have to go back to Meijer to take the container back. So that can make it difficult. 

[EldritchMoose]

I struggled with the first question mainly because I actively avoid using a straw whenever I can. I am perfectly capable of drinking out of a Macdonald's cup without the use of a thin tube.

 

Secondly, while I like the idea of a biodegradable straw, the trick would have to be to find a material that does not carry a risk of allergy or other health risk. I have yet to hear of an option that does not have either of those.

 

Honestly, I like the suggestion of just having a reusable container.

[Donut417]

12 hours ago, Anghammarad said:

As for plastic bags... yes they are cheap, but I tend to bring my own cloth bags or the "little" IKEA shopping bag,

Kroger here in the US is getting rid of plastic bags. I think they are moving to paper for now and maybe making people bring their own. Hell we bring our own bags we shopping. To hell with plastic bags.

 

To me besides plastic bags, the biggest issue is bottled water. As many of us drink that. 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Kroger here in the US is getting rid of plastic bags. I think they are moving to paper for now and maybe making people bring their own. Hell we bring our own bags we shopping. To hell with plastic bags.

 

To me besides plastic bags, the biggest issue is bottled water. As many of us drink that. 

I use insulated grocery bags. Besides being reusable, each one holds more groceries, can be zipped closed, has handles,  keeps cold food colder longer (giving me more time to get home and put food away), and folds flat when empty. They won't rip like paper (and, to a lesser degree, plastic). I reuse many of plastic bags I get elsewhere for trash, trash can liners, etc.

 

I carry bottled water when I'm on the road with passengers for them to use (and for if I get stranded) and keep a case or two on hand at home to take with me on road trips and for when we have a water outage. On the road, I use a large vacuum insulated drinking cup to keep ice and drinking water in and refill it when I make "pit stops" along the way. I drink through a large plastic straw that's been in use for a couple of years or so. The small package I have of them will probably last me for the rest of my life. Those are the only straws I ever use.

 

At home, I reuse empty water bottles by filling them with tap water and keeping them in the 'fridge after I freeze them, then drink from them after they have thawed a bit in the 'fridge. It only takes a few seconds to clean them every now and then and, when one gets damaged (which isn't very often), replace it with a new one. I use a stainless steel can koozy to help keep the bottle cooler while drinking from it.

 

Even though I minimize my use of plastic straws, bottles, and bags, I do not feel they should be banned. Glass bottles are heavy (and I'm old) and can break. Paper straws just don't hold up very well (I can remember back when paper straws were all you could get and they were a pain back then, too). I don't always have an alternate bag handy to use when shopping so it's nice to have the option to use plastic. Also, plastic bags usually have sturdy handles whereas paper bags rarely have them and, when they do, they usually tear or pull out easily. I can see charging extra for their use, though, similar to what CA does, to encourage people to use alternatives. CA also charges a deposit for bottles, glass and plastic, and beverage cans to encourage people to return them for refunds and make recycling easier for people.

[TetraSky]

Reviving this thread for the ones advocating metal straws instead of using paper straws

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/world/europe/metal-straws-death.html

The straw penetrated her eye... Oh God...

 

So yeah, if the alternative to plastic straws is either single use paper straws that get soggy after a couple hours or a metal straw that could literally kill you if you fell... I'll take the paper straw.

It could be argued that "well she was disabled, an accident was bound to happen"... Yeah well, accidents can happen at anytime to anyone. Some dbag could easily push you while you're walking with your drink and suddenly you have a metal straw in your eye.

[Mug]

On 6/13/2019 at 4:54 AM, dalekphalm said:

Plastic straws aren't recyclable. Why? Not sure.

 

At first I hated paper straws - the only time I had used them, they softened quickly and I had to go through like 4 of them to drink a glass of water at a restaurant.

 

However, turns out that restaurant just got shitty straws.

 

A&W here in Canada now exclusively uses paper straws, and frankly, they work totally fine. They hold together long past the point where your drink would be gone (or Pop would go flat). And they don't seem to affect the taste of the beverage.

 

I even had a milkshake yesterday at a restaurant with a paper straw - it was a large one (perhaps the diameter of a nickel), and it worked great.

 

Edit: To the OP - link seems broken.

This frustrates me about plastic straws, they tend to be made of polypropylene which is recyclable, but not commonly recycled by local authorities. Paper straws are even less recyclable though; they're coated in plastic, adding difficulty with separation (similar to paper cups). The ones that last longer tend to be less biodegradable and so more likely to cause environmental damage, and whilst plastics have very little carbon impact, paper straws have a higher carbon impact due to more trees being cut down. Another issue is that paper straws usually cannot use a high percentage of recycled paper, adding to their carbon footprint.

 

There are new plans for plastic recycling in the UK where each plastic will have a UV-fluorescent dye in it, the dye will allow a machine to identify which plastic it is and therefore how to recycle it. I think this is pretty cool, when it rolls out by 2025-ish anyway. Hopefully it'll allow a return to plastic straws; the only problem with them is their disposal really.

[TechyBen]

5 minutes ago, Mug said:

This frustrates me about plastic straws, they tend to be made of polypropylene which is recyclable, but not commonly recycled by local authorities. Paper straws are even less recyclable though; they're coated in plastic, adding difficulty with separation (similar to paper cups). The ones that last longer tend to be less biodegradable and so more likely to cause environmental damage, and whilst plastics have very little carbon impact, paper straws have a higher carbon impact. 

 

There are new plans for plastic recycling in the UK where each plastic will have a UV-fluorescent dye in it, the dye will allow a machine to identify which plastic it is and therefore how to recycle it. I think this is pretty cool, when it rolls out by 2025-ish anyway.

Wow. Did not think of that:

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Will businesses recycle their used straws or send them to the garbage can? According toAardvark Straws, it’s unlikely that the millions of paper straws destined to enter the restaurant supply chains will end up in recycling depots.

“Even though our straws are made out of paper, most recyclers will not accept food contaminated paper products. So depending on your recycling facility, they may be, but most likely not. That is why we suggest composting our straws instead,” the company said on its website.

Though at times, a biodegradable/burnable/etc waste is not a problem. I do wonder if the pros/cons were weighed correctly when swapping from plastic to paper. But all in all, paper in the environment is safer than plastic.

[LAwLz]

On 6/12/2019 at 11:16 PM, theninja35 said:

Metal straws are superior to anything.

No they aren't. 

The amount of energy necessary to create and clean metal straws only make them carbon neutral after around 6 years of use, assuming single use plastic vs metal at a fairly high rate of usage. 

 

I can understand using paper straws, but metal? The environment will only benefit if you carry that straw around everywhere and don't lose it for 8 years or so. 

[TechyBen]

14 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

No they aren't. 

The amount of energy necessary to create and clean metal straws only make them carbon neutral after around 6 years of use, assuming single use plastic vs metal at a fairly high rate of usage. 

 

I can understand using paper straws, but metal? The environment will only benefit if you carry that straw around everywhere and don't lose it for 8 years or so. 

Shhh. How are reactionists with violent and abusive verbal tendencies going to troll/make themselves to be better than everyone on Twitter/social media, if they are logical and think about actual reality instead of emotional responses to "the turtles!!!".

 

[Sauron]

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McDonald's

no

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Paper Straws

don't care to be honest, so long as they can be recycled

[RejZoR]

17 hours ago, Mug said:

This frustrates me about plastic straws, they tend to be made of polypropylene which is recyclable, but not commonly recycled by local authorities. Paper straws are even less recyclable though; they're coated in plastic, adding difficulty with separation (similar to paper cups). The ones that last longer tend to be less biodegradable and so more likely to cause environmental damage, and whilst plastics have very little carbon impact, paper straws have a higher carbon impact due to more trees being cut down. Another issue is that paper straws usually cannot use a high percentage of recycled paper, adding to their carbon footprint.

 

There are new plans for plastic recycling in the UK where each plastic will have a UV-fluorescent dye in it, the dye will allow a machine to identify which plastic it is and therefore how to recycle it. I think this is pretty cool, when it rolls out by 2025-ish anyway. Hopefully it'll allow a return to plastic straws; the only problem with them is their disposal really.

Paper cups and similar stuff is not covered in plastic coz that would kinda defeat the purpose of using paper in the first place. Paper is usually waxed to achieve water resistance. If you can tear it, there is no plastic on it. I'm also pretty sure I've seen somewhere a technique where cardboard/paper is polished in such a way that liquids don't diffuse into it, but I can't find info on it. If cardboard is rough water will easily diffuse into it. If it's shiny, it won't. Which then makes it 100% degradable since it's still all paper, it just doesn't like to get wet.

 

Just try grinding two sheets of paper together and you'll notice how it gets shiny. You can also try to get it wet in that point where it's shiny and you'll see water will just stay on top of it.