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Enten

Picking RAM speed is driving me crazy

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Posted · Original PosterOP

So over the past month, I've been reading up on RAM speed differences. Many say there is no noticeable difference in 99% of cases, while others say there is a HUGE difference in certain games and if you're using a Ryzen CPU. I think Fallout 4 was one example of that. 

 

I have a 1700x, paired with an Asus crosshair VI extreme or whatever. I plan to upgrade to Zen2 as soon as those are available. But my motherboard should be able to support whatever RAM I plop into it. 

 

I'm town between this kit, and this kit. The only difference is a speed of 600. So 3000 vs 3600. 

 

Is it worth getting the 3600 RAM for just $25 more? I read somewhere that despite being faster... it's actually slower because of the timings... so confused. 

 

I will be gaming, but primarily will use this PC for 3DS max, rendering, and some Photoshop. I have two Vega 64's if that makes any difference whatsoever. 

 

Thanks!

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The difference will barely even be noticeable. 3000 is a great speed for Ryzen so I would save the $25 and stick with 3000mhz.


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@nick name the Ryzen user and I think running an aggressive clock (though not as aggressive timings)

 

6 minutes ago, Enten said:

Is it worth getting the 3600 RAM for just $25 more?

I'd say yes just for the greater potential in the sticks... but then it will depend on your manual tunings to get it fast so... ask that yourself.

 

7 minutes ago, Enten said:

it's actually slower because of the timings

Nope, 3600/19 is a larger number than 3000/16, which means the latency on 3600 is a tiny bit lower. Bandwidth is greatly more dependent on frequency than timings so 3600 will guarantee a higher bandwidth as well

 

9 minutes ago, Enten said:

Asus crosshair VI extreme or whatever

This is quite a big thing actually. Crosshair VI is the only board I know to use T-topology while other boards use daisy chain for the memory traces in the PCB (connecting the CPU to the memory). T-top basically means lower potential with 2 sticks, but greater potential with 4 sticks. AMD on Zen 2 seems to have optimized the CPU for daisy chain though, so no idea how well the Crosshair VI will overclock its memory in the future on Zen 2.


"What's under the heatsink?" ep1, "Why it's not as good as it seem?" AMD fanboy edition out, episode 2 "Why my gaming board is a scam?" Intel fanboy edition coming soon (this is a link)

Hardware specs below

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.4?V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

@nick name the Ryzen user and I think running an aggressive clock (though not as aggressive timings)

 

I'd say yes just for the greater potential in the sticks... but then it will depend on your manual tunings to get it fast so... ask that yourself.

 

Nope, 3600/19 is a larger number than 3000/16, which means the latency on 3600 is a tiny bit lower. Bandwidth is greatly more dependent on frequency than timings so 3600 will guarantee a higher bandwidth as well

 

This is quite a big thing actually. Crosshair VI is the only board I know to use T-topology while other boards use daisy chain for the memory traces in the PCB (connecting the CPU to the memory). T-top basically means lower potential with 2 sticks, but greater potential with 4 sticks. AMD on Zen 2 seems to have optimized the CPU for daisy chain though, so no idea how well the Crosshair VI will overclock its memory in the future on Zen 2.

Hmm, guess I got lucky with the motherboard. Only snagged it because it had a $100 rebate. 

 

So in what application would the extra 600 frequency REALLY be noticeable, of not in games or Autodesk products? Think getting the 3600 would be more "future-proof" for Zen 2? I know my current setup, the 1700x can't make full use of the RAM right now regardless. 

 

I've never overclocked RAM, so if it's a bigger hassle than it's worth for a newbie, let me know. I'm willing to tinker but I don't want to permanently damage anything. 

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I'd pay the extra $25. Despite the larger cache and other updates to the memory system on Ryzen 2, the infinity fabric speed is still tied to memory speed and they're going to support 3200 as a default speed, with 3600 being a standard supported speed on Zen 2, with "every kit" they've tested so far just working with the XMP profile.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, RobFRaschke said:

I'd pay the extra $25. Despite the larger cache and other updates to the memory system on Ryzen 2, the infinity fabric speed is still tied to memory speed and they're going to support 3200 as a default speed, with 3600 being a standard supported speed on Zen 2, with "every kit" they've tested so far just working with the XMP profile.

Okay, going with the 3600! Anything I should know about setting these up to work their best? I ordered 2 kits, so no worrying about which slots to put them in at least. 

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1 minute ago, Enten said:

Okay, going with the 3600! Anything I should know about setting these up to work their best? I ordered 2 kits, so no worrying about which slots to put them in at least. 

Wait, you're using 4 sticks? I didn't see that in the original post. Keep in mind you likely won't see more than 3200 speed, even on Zen2, without manual tweaking with all four slots populated, even if you do in fact have the Crosshair VI, which I hope you do if you're going to run 4 sticks.

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9 minutes ago, Enten said:

So in what application would the extra 600 frequency REALLY be noticeable, of not in games or Autodesk products?

Everything, thanks to AMD's (stupid imo) idea of linking uncore frequency to memory frequency. In other words you're overclocking the CPU with memory overclock.

 

10 minutes ago, Enten said:

I've never overclocked RAM, so if it's a bigger hassle than it's worth for a newbie, let me know. I'm willing to tinker but I don't want to permanently damage anything.

Keep your voltages in check and you're fine, though you might want a new Windows installation specifically for testing the overclock, as you'll crash a lot and might corrupt the OS in the process.

 

I'd say the max memory voltage I'd try is 1.5V (maybe 1.45V if you want to ensure lifespan of the CPU), SOC voltage at 1.2V (though higher is not necessarily better), CPU core voltage at 1.4V for 14nm and 12nm Ryzen (dont know how much 7nm Ryzen can tolerate yet)


"What's under the heatsink?" ep1, "Why it's not as good as it seem?" AMD fanboy edition out, episode 2 "Why my gaming board is a scam?" Intel fanboy edition coming soon (this is a link)

Hardware specs below

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.4?V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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4 minutes ago, Enten said:

Okay, going with the 3600! Anything I should know about setting these up to work their best? I ordered 2 kits, so no worrying about which slots to put them in at least. 

btw I didnt mean you'll get more speed from 4 sticks compared to 2 just because your board is T-top. It just doesn't tank nearly as hard as daisy chains do when using 4 sticks.


"What's under the heatsink?" ep1, "Why it's not as good as it seem?" AMD fanboy edition out, episode 2 "Why my gaming board is a scam?" Intel fanboy edition coming soon (this is a link)

Hardware specs below

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.4?V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Jurrunio said:

btw I didnt mean you'll get more speed from 4 sticks compared to 2 just because your board is T-top. It just doesn't tank nearly as hard as daisy chains do when using 4 sticks.

Ah, no worries. Kinda pricey for 2 kits, but I have 13% cashback on ebay and it can't hurt to have more RAM. I always have 200+ tabs open in chrome so...

Can you recommend any easy to follow overclocking guide? There's a LOT of voltage stuff in BIOS... not really sure which to touch and which need to be left alone. 

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Just now, Enten said:

Can you recommend any easy to follow overclocking guide? There's a LOT of voltage stuff in BIOS... not really sure which to touch and which need to be left alone. 

@nick name the humanoid guide? He's using a Crosshair VII Hero which should have identical options in the bios


"What's under the heatsink?" ep1, "Why it's not as good as it seem?" AMD fanboy edition out, episode 2 "Why my gaming board is a scam?" Intel fanboy edition coming soon (this is a link)

Hardware specs below

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.4?V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Wait . . . what is going on here?


AMD Ryzen 2700X  |  Fractal Design S36 360 AIO w/6 Corsair SP120L fans  |  Asus Crosshair VII WiFi X470  | G.SKILL TridentZ 3636MHz 14-15-14-28 2x8GB  | EVGA 1070 Ti SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black  |  Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB - Boot Drive  |  Samsung 850 EVO SSD 1TB - Game Drive  |  Seagate 1TB HDD - Media Drive  |  EVGA 650 G3  | Thermaltake Core P3 Case 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, nick name said:

Wait . . . what is going on here?

Hahaha. Were you getting tagged all this time?

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3 hours ago, nick name said:

Wait . . . what is going on here?

being the only one who actually runs ddr 3600 on zen+ has its burdens.

 

@enten just gonna add that i'd aim for 3600-4000 for zen 2 ram speed, it actually matters quite a bit.


9900k 1.36v 5.2 83C 185w 1.24v 4.9 60C 135w 1.05v 4.5 90w 50C (doing some testing for hot days) all-2avx cinebench/blender temps. avx voltages in prime. ll D15 ll Z390 taichi ult 1.60 bios fixed LLC voltage gaps ll gskill 2x8gb cl16 ddr4000 bdie 1.42v ll 4x samsung 970 evo 256gb (asus hyper pcie m2 raid card) ll 2x samsung 860 evo 500gb raid 0 (<--i should've went with 1tb nvmemistake of the build) ll EVGA 2080 ti XC (duo fan skinny) 1995//7600 power limited 79C max, stock voltage (really bad ocer) ll Corsair graphite 780T ll EVGA G2 1300w ll Windows 10 Pro ll NEC PA272w (movie, work mon) 2k60 14bit lut ll Predator X27 4k144 hdr (rgb98)

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3733Mhz CL16 is the sweet spot for Zen2. The further you drift from that point (either in less speed or looser timings) the worse performance gets. 
This speed may increase slightly if you overclock Zen2, And then will depend on how much you over clock it. It could turn out that CL16 4000Mhz is the best. But for stock zen2 is 3733

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8 hours ago, Enten said:

Hahaha. Were you getting tagged all this time?

Ok now that I'm sober.  Don't get either kit unless you love the way those Royals look.  The timings on the 3600 are atrocious.  Also, don't buy from eBay Newegg.  They can't price match against Newegg proper.  If you're willing to spend $210 then there are probably better kits.  Your pain is going to come from wanting to run speed on a 32GB capacity kit.  I think the new Ryzen CPUs will handle it a lot better, but I'm not certain your motherboard is going to be as good as the new X570 boards coming out.  

 

If you can afford it then I would suggest 3200MHz b-die.  The Royals are expensive, but this regular TridentZ kit is more reasonable.

 

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232376


AMD Ryzen 2700X  |  Fractal Design S36 360 AIO w/6 Corsair SP120L fans  |  Asus Crosshair VII WiFi X470  | G.SKILL TridentZ 3636MHz 14-15-14-28 2x8GB  | EVGA 1070 Ti SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black  |  Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB - Boot Drive  |  Samsung 850 EVO SSD 1TB - Game Drive  |  Seagate 1TB HDD - Media Drive  |  EVGA 650 G3  | Thermaltake Core P3 Case 

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This is a test I ran on a 2X16GB kit so it isn't directly comparable, but should be in the ballpark.  

 

 


AMD Ryzen 2700X  |  Fractal Design S36 360 AIO w/6 Corsair SP120L fans  |  Asus Crosshair VII WiFi X470  | G.SKILL TridentZ 3636MHz 14-15-14-28 2x8GB  | EVGA 1070 Ti SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black  |  Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB - Boot Drive  |  Samsung 850 EVO SSD 1TB - Game Drive  |  Seagate 1TB HDD - Media Drive  |  EVGA 650 G3  | Thermaltake Core P3 Case 

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