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System32.exe

RTX picking up steam - Cyberpunk 2077 & Watch Dogs: Legion join the growing list of RTX titles

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20 hours ago, mr moose said:

So in 8 months they have more supporting titles than any other tech development gained in it's first 5 years?  And people are still trying to argue it is a pointless tech being used to con the consumer...

 

It is supported, it does something, it's bigger than gaming, and if you don't like it you don't have to buy RTX, you can buy NAVI.

I wish I could use a secondary card specifically for it like I can for PhysX. Would make things run a bit better for those that don't mind paying more.


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maybe it was delayed because Nvidia tried to inject some of it's proprietary stuff like how Witcher 3 too was delayed...


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1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

I wish I could use a secondary card specifically for it like I can for PhysX. Would make things run a bit better for those that don't mind paying more.

That would be really interesting actually. I like ray tracing but I don't think the current gen cards handle it nearly well enough for me to invest into it this generation, but if you were able to dedicate a entire GPU to handling the ray tracing, perhaps the FPS hit could be mitigated and the amount of rays increased so high that the visual impact would be much more obvious.

I would totally go for a 2080Ti if I could convert my 980Ti into a dedicated ray-tracing card

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3 minutes ago, ThePD said:

That would be really interesting actually. I like ray tracing but I don't think the current gen cards handle it nearly well enough for me to invest into it this generation, but if you were able to dedicate a entire GPU to handling the ray tracing, perhaps the FPS hit could be mitigated and the amount of rays increased so high that the visual impact would be much more obvious.
 

Exactly!

Even now you can still run a secondary card for just PhysX and multi monitor. Would be nice if it possible with RTX. The current cards just can't handle it on their own.


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22 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Oh, you mean Nvidia's finally getting their hardware utilization in order now? Like what they should've done from the get-go?

Right cause developers can just implement that feature without needing the hardware to test said features first /s.

 

On a serious note though, just take myself as an example, I wouldn't have been able to make this https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zA0a0L without having the hardware first. (I want to make a better version of that and use it as a render engine for a game idea I've been toying with with but my code is a mess and I've been putting off fixing it. Basically I wrote most of it in a panicked frenzy during the week before I had to present it in a course I was taking)

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3 minutes ago, Beskamir said:

Right cause developers can just implement that feature without needing the hardware to test said features first /s.

 

On a serious note though, just take myself as an example, I wouldn't have been able to make this https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zA0a0L without having the hardware first. (I want to make a better version of that and use it as a render engine for a game idea I've been toying with with but my code is a mess and I've been putting off fixing it. Basically I wrote most of it in a panicked frenzy during the week before I had to present it in a course I was taking)

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2019/01/21/power-mac-g5-sdk/

It's plausible to have hardware that may not be the exact same hardware and still make shit for it before it launches. Many launch and very early Xbox 360 titles were largely worked on with a Power Mac G5.

I know that a graphics card is a little different, BUT I know it was also largely discussed that a lot of the ray-tracing shit in BFV was implemented using Titan V's, and chances are high most earlier games with RTX features were the same way. 


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7 hours ago, Franck said:

For ray tracing this won't be true. Ray tracing there is a hard limit where you do not see further improvement for each subsequent pass. At one point the performance will reach its limit and if the chip get better you will have the same near perfect result just pooping more frame per seconds that's it.

 

The only thing that will change the performance would be larger resolution OR if game actually implement the real winner which is path tracing and that's a whole another story

I don't understand what that means in the context of my post.

 

7 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

You two think I'm trying to compare sales figures. I'm not, and focusing on the fact is only going to make the misunderstanding worse. I'm looking at the industry parallels of which there are many.

@System32.exe Are you really saying that because it's a tricky tech to implement, it's okay to have a weak launch? And that creating, developing for, and releasing a new console platform doesn't have any similarities whatsoever?? 

If so i can only say I disagree entirely :/ 

 

 

You are trying to compare the number of titles that launches with a whole system to the the number of titles adapted or designed to work with a brand new technology.

 

That's not an apples to apples comparison,  All titles for consoles are developed on PC's, the hardware between consoles isn't that different that they  need years of lead time to start work.  Most of the launch games with new consoles were started before they even new the specific hardware.  However implementing something like RT (even DXR only RT) takes times and resources on top of game development resources.  DXR was presented to developers years ago, no love or time from them. Why?

 

 

 


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2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2019/01/21/power-mac-g5-sdk/

It's plausible to have hardware that may not be the exact same hardware and still make shit for it before it launches. Many launch and very early Xbox 360 titles were largely worked on with a Power Mac G5.

I know that a graphics card is a little different, BUT I know it was also largely discussed that a lot of the ray-tracing shit in BFV was implemented using Titan V's, and chances are high most earlier games with RTX features were the same way. 

While making rtx related stuff without hardware was technically possible it was much easier to make hardware first and then have people support the hardware.

 

Also reminder that ray tracing in itself is a really simple algorithm and that difficulty has always been making it fast. Clever algorithms and data structures really speed up ray tracing up but not enough for it to be game worthy and until about a year ago there were no easily accessible APIs that made implementation easy. Since those APIs are really low level they couldn't be written well until we had a decent understanding of how the hardware was gonna be setup and what would be best done with special hardware (ray-triangle intersections, denoising), the API (BVH creation/traversal) and the programmer (shading, ray generation).

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still gonna end up buying the 5700XT probably (will wait for AIB and reviews) 


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7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

still gonna end up buying the 5700XT probably (will wait for AIB and reviews) 

Why? might as well grab a Sapphire Vega64 Nitro+ now for the same performance but superior compute capacity and faster HBM2 memory all on a much better and silent aftermarket cooler instead of another blower cooler garbo.

 

It is the same price for the same performance but still a lesser product with only a few gimmick features to justify any hype, Navi is nothing but disappointment since AMD decided to delay "Big Navi" to avoid the Radeon 7 going EOL prematurely.


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I don't see Navi as disappointment. It's perfectly capable product just like Polaris was. Remember how much whining there was about Polaris? But it's still going strong for affordable but still capable gaming PC's. Navi is exactly that. And since they finally ditched GCN, people will have one less reason to bitch about.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
28 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I don't see Navi as disappointment. It's perfectly capable product just like Polaris was. Remember how much whining there was about Polaris? But it's still going strong for affordable but still capable gaming PC's. Navi is exactly that. And since they finally ditched GCN, people will have one less reason to bitch about.

Affordable? It's $449.. also it's still GCN, just with a new name.


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8 minutes ago, System32.exe said:

Affordable? It's $449.. also it's still GCN, just with a new name.

Here we go again with the GCN idiocy... Even AMD can say it's not GCN anymore and show the actual compute unit design and everyone is still scremaing MUH GCN. :rolleyes:

 

As for the price, it's a RTX 2070 competitor. Or did I miss the point where NVIDIA is selling RTX 2070 for $299 somewhere? Oh wait, it's not. Dumb people still expecting AMD to just give away products despite being competitive because reasons, but NVIDIA is allowed to price them at anything they want and people are fine with it. Again coz reasons. You folks are hilarious. If you want cheaper than that, you still have RX590 which is still very capable at the lower end that's "affordable".

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Posted · Original PosterOP
15 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

As for the price, it's a RTX 2070 competitor. Or did I miss the point where NVIDIA is selling RTX 2070 for $299 somewhere? Oh wait, it's not. Dumb people still expecting AMD to just give away products despite being competitive because reasons, but NVIDIA is allowed to price them at anything they want and people are fine with it. Again coz reasons. You folks are hilarious. If you want cheaper than that, you still have RX590 which is still very capable at the lower end that's "affordable".

You're the one that brought up affordability first. $449 is way higher than what most people would consider "affordable" for a GPU.


Dell S2417DG, RTX 2080 XC, R5 3600, MSI B350M Mortar, 2x8GB 3600MHz CL16

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IMO just needs better optimisations (mainly limit it to things/places/screenscapes where it matters and reduce the number of rays needed if possible) just as PhysX did. Now we are doing physics on any GPU.

 

Though ray tracing/casting needs a LOT more hardware for a reliable/pleasant experience for the gamer. I still want to see games use it properly.

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22 minutes ago, System32.exe said:

You're the one that brought up affordability first. $449 is way higher than what most people would consider "affordable" for a GPU.

It's affordable for what it is. It also performs higher. Isn't that exactly what everyone was raving about AMD? That they don't deliver "enough" performance. And now when they do, everyone is bitching again. LOL? Oh right, you were all expecting RTX 2070 performance for $299, got it. I was optimistic over leaks with GTX 1080 performance for 300-350, but I wasn't holding anyone by those leaks. Now it's beyond GTX 1080, but it also costs more.

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2 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

is dxr and rtx the same thing, or is it a packet like gameworks?

Underlaying tech is the same. RTX is ray tracing SDK pretty much stuck on top of DXR foundations so devs have an easier time using ray tracing than doing it straight for DXR. Downside is, if devs use RTX, it's locked to NVIDIA cards. If devs use DXR, anyone can do ray tracing for it in the future, be it AMD or Intel. Which is why I'm hoping Cyberpunk 2077 will use DXR and not RTX. So more people will be able to enjoy its ray tracing in the future. Coz this will be the sort of game played every time someone will mention it down the upcoming decade...

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I'm all for it. I don't mind the proprietary features Nvidia injects into certain games. Granted I mainly use Nvidia GPUs.

 

Features like Hairworks, interactive smoke and rain effects from Gameworks do make my experience feel a tad more exciting, even just a little...

 

On the flipside I would feel somewhat bummed out if I mainly used AMD cards and certain graphical features were to be unavailable to me. So I get the counterpoint.


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32 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's affordable for what it is. It also performs higher. Isn't that exactly what everyone was raving about AMD? That they don't deliver "enough" performance. And now when they do, everyone is bitching again. LOL? Oh right, you were all expecting RTX 2070 performance for $299, got it. I was optimistic over leaks with GTX 1080 performance for 300-350, but I wasn't holding anyone by those leaks. Now it's beyond GTX 1080, but it also costs more.

they already have a card right in that performance to price area lol

but new node so maybe more can be squeezed out

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7 minutes ago, pas008 said:

they already have a card right in that performance to price area lol

No they don't. They sell one (Vega 56), but margins on it aren't sustainable because of HBM2. Which is why this is basically replacing it with Navi. With better performance, lower consumption, probably better thermals and actual profits on it.

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19 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

No they don't. They sell one (Vega 56), but margins on it aren't sustainable because of HBM2. Which is why this is basically replacing it with Navi. With better performance, lower consumption, probably better thermals and actual profits on it.

sry vega 64 was able to be had for that area for the longest time think you still can get it for 400

 

 

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

sry vega 64 was able to be had for that area for the longest time think you still can get it for 400

 

 

Yeah, but AMD was making nearly no profit on them. AMD is not a charity you know, they need to make profits just like NVIDIA. They'll be making them on Navi cards tho.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Underlaying tech is the same. RTX is ray tracing SDK pretty much stuck on top of DXR foundations so devs have an easier time using ray tracing than doing it straight for DXR. Downside is, if devs use RTX, it's locked to NVIDIA cards. If devs use DXR, anyone can do ray tracing for it in the future, be it AMD or Intel. Which is why I'm hoping Cyberpunk 2077 will use DXR and not RTX. So more people will be able to enjoy its ray tracing in the future. Coz this will be the sort of game played every time someone will mention it down the upcoming decade...

So much ignorance.

 

It's all DXR or Vulkan RT. RTX is just a brand name for the RT cores + Tensor cores, the former of which accelerates RT.


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