How did Apple DO this? - MacBook Pro 2019

[danwat1234]

0:50 the 2019 MBP is definitely faster than your 2011! I really enjoyed this video. It is amazing what Intel & Apple has done. I have seen in other videos that it appears that the CPU power usage/heat output isn't much more than the 6-core in the 2018 MBP. Further 14nm optimizations, more undervolting? 

If the MBP in iOS undervolts the CPU reliably, are they using specially binned CPUs? Can we find the table and use the same frequency <-> voltage levels in Windows and possibly in other laptops with some tweaks? Utilities in iOS to show voltages?

[corrado33]

8 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

To be totally fair, what Apple is doing under macOS is running the processor technically out of spec by undervolting the CPU. This could lead to some chips being unstable if they ever actually reached that 5GHz single core boost, due to the fact that it was designed with one voltage value in mind and is seeing another.

 

But, this won't happen, and the 8c MBP will probably be my next laptop regardless, though with the Vega 20 GPU. My 2014 is nice and all, but 2 cores really does hurt encoding times when I want to do some video editing on campus away from my desktop.

I mean, does it matter? Unlike most manufacturers, they're undervolting the cpu, which isn't nearly as bad as overvolting the CPU in terms of electrical damage, and 1000x easier to fix. Besides, they're still outperforming competitors. 

 

I will admit, however, that current apple laptop keyboards suck balls and it's one of the main reasons I refuse to buy one. 

[Video Beagle]

10 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

2011 was taken off the supported list with High Sierra, actually. It is not officially supported on Mojave.

 

But, a guy named DosDude1 releases legacy patchers that allow non supported macs to run Mojave, supporting very old laptops like the 2007 Macbook, which I tested. It works very good, actually. Even GPU Acceleration was working on the old nVidia GPU if you use Dark Mode. Light Mode for some reason produces artifacts.

 

Interesting... I use a 2007 MacBook Pro that I only just updated to Sierra last month, and it's been running great since then (out of control temps/fans/processes have calmed down)...I mainly use it for web browsing (like right now) and light MS Office stuff these days, but it's better then it's been in a long time with the upgraded.

 

(been wondering if I should replace the thermal paste as I've heard that's sometimes a thing you do, so if anyone here has opinions on that... )

[Video Beagle]

6 hours ago, livinmediocre said:

Hey quick question: can somebody direct me as to how Anthony was able to see how many times his email to Apple had been opened, or opened at all? @5:20 in the video

I took it to be more along the lines of assuming "They saw it was from Linus Tech Tips and threw it away" rather than actually knowing they had opened it etc.

[imcaspar]

@GabenJr

 

How does it come that you use a 2011 MacBook as your Daily Driver? Do you actually prefer MacOS over Windows/ Linux?

 

Your job background would've made me think otherwise.

[BobVonBob]

Hold on why is there a grater in the lower left corner of the overhead shots. Is this what goes on at LTT behind the scenes?

[Tamesh16]

loved this video , very concise and clear 

[DrMacintosh]

5 hours ago, caspar! said:

Your job background would've made me think otherwise.

A real Mac is one of the few machines that can cripple boot the 3 major operating systems without too much trouble. I figure that might have something to do with it. 

 

Mac's are generally better laptops though, this was especially true in 2011 imo. 

[Emily Young]

5 hours ago, caspar! said:

@GabenJr

 

How does it come that you use a 2011 MacBook as your Daily Driver? Do you actually prefer MacOS over Windows/ Linux?

 

Your job background would've made me think otherwise.

What @DrMacintosh said, but I also make a habit of using everything. My gaming PC is running Linux currently, my work PC is running Win10, and my laptop's macOS. For some things, I prefer macOS for sure - Time Machine is a big one (you can get back up and running REALLY fast after a format or drive replacement on a Mac), but also in terms of interoperability with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. Linux I like for its versatility; Being on the bleeding edge or sticking with old packages is a choice you can make for yourself there, and the developments along the gaming front have been exciting to say the least (I haven't booted my gaming PC into Windows in quite some time now). Windows... Well, it's Windows. Sometimes that's a good thing (software availability), and other times not so much (stability, customization, etc). The fun part is getting them all to work together nicely.

 

Similarly, I also use both iOS and Android wherever I can. Disregarding the difference in app ecosystems, iOS is great for its ability to get back up and running after a wipe quickly and painlessly, though while it's been getting more Android-like features as time goes on, it's still pretty limited in terms of customization. Android is kind of like Linux in that you can make of it what you will, although unless you're willing (and able) to root, you're at the whims of the device manufacturer whether or not you'll get OS updates in a timely fashion or at all for devices a few years old. Some are good for it, others not so much.

[SenKa]

9 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

 

Interesting... I use a 2007 MacBook Pro that I only just updated to Sierra last month, and it's been running great since then (out of control temps/fans/processes have calmed down)...I mainly use it for web browsing (like right now) and light MS Office stuff these days, but it's better then it's been in a long time with the upgraded.

 

(been wondering if I should replace the thermal paste as I've heard that's sometimes a thing you do, so if anyone here has opinions on that... )

Both the Macbook and Macbook Pro of 2007 is on DosDude's no fly zone. I have verified it works, but maybe it is due to GPU acceleration bugs on light theme? I'm unsure... Even the iSight cam works, which is not a given on patched macOS. Here is the link, if you wish to try: http://dosdude1.com/mojave/

Unsupported list in spoiler tag below.

 

Spoiler

• 2006-2007 Mac Pros, iMacs, MacBook Pros, and Mac Minis:

• MacPro1,1
• MacPro2,1
• iMac4,1
• iMac5,x
• iMac6,1
• iMac7,1
• MacBookPro1,1
• MacBookPro2,1
• MacBookPro3,1
• Macmini1,1
• Macmini2,1

— The 2007 iMac 7,1 is compatible if the CPU is upgraded to a Penryn-based Core 2 Duo, such as a T9300.

• 2006-2008 MacBooks:

• MacBook1,1
• MacBook2,1
• MacBook3,1
• MacBook4,1

• 2008 MacBook Air (MacBookAir 1,1)

 

[SenKa]

30 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

What @DrMacintosh said, but I also make a habit of using everything. My gaming PC is running Linux currently, my work PC is running Win10, and my laptop's macOS. For some things, I prefer macOS for sure - Time Machine is a big one (you can get back up and running REALLY fast after a format or drive replacement on a Mac), but also in terms of interoperability with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. Linux I like for its versatility; Being on the bleeding edge or sticking with old packages is a choice you can make for yourself there, and the developments along the gaming front have been exciting to say the least (I haven't booted my gaming PC into Windows in quite some time now). Windows... Well, it's Windows. Sometimes that's a good thing (software availability), and other times not so much (stability, customization, etc). The fun part is getting them all to work together nicely.

 

Similarly, I also use both iOS and Android wherever I can. Disregarding the difference in app ecosystems, iOS is great for its ability to get back up and running after a wipe quickly and painlessly, though while it's been getting more Android-like features as time goes on, it's still pretty limited in terms of customization. Android is kind of like Linux in that you can make of it what you will, although unless you're willing (and able) to root, you're at the whims of the device manufacturer whether or not you'll get OS updates in a timely fashion or at all for devices a few years old. Some are good for it, others not so much.

Time Machine is an absolute blessing. I genuinely wish Windows had such a reliable easy to use alternative baked in. At the moment my backup flow for Windows consists of live booting Manjaro Linux and making an ISO of the disks using DD, and copying them to my vault storage.

 

Do you keep backups of editing rigs and other crucial systems at LTT? What software do you use? I have been unable to find something satisfactory other than my above method that would allow me to simply restore to a backup by writing an image back to a fresh drive.

 

Also one other question, while I'm writing this post. At LTT does anybody edit on Macs? Is it something Linus prohibits, or did your editing team simply not care for Final Cut Pro? I'm an editor myself, certified in both FCP and Premier Pro, always preferred Final Cut Pro. I obviously don't know your work flow, but I don't know of anything macOS and FCP can't do that Premier can.

[SenKa]

10 hours ago, danwat1234 said:

0:50 the 2019 MBP is definitely faster than your 2011! I really enjoyed this video. It is amazing what Intel & Apple has done. I have seen in other videos that it appears that the CPU power usage/heat output isn't much more than the 6-core in the 2018 MBP. Further 14nm optimizations, more undervolting? 

If the MBP in iOS undervolts the CPU reliably, are they using specially binned CPUs? Can we find the table and use the same frequency <-> voltage levels in Windows and possibly in other laptops with some tweaks? Utilities in iOS to show voltages?

The T2 chip does not allow utilities that modify basic functions you can otherwise. MacsFanControl does not work under windows, XTU does not work, and everything similar does not work.

 

Also, it is macOS, not iOS

[Radium_Angel]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

cripple

So true....so true 

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

So true....so true 

Lol, I meant triple. 

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Time Machine is an absolute blessing.

I had an issue when I tried to boot my MacBook into Windows. Long story short I was getting display flickering in macOS but not Windows and the machine was running hot. SMC/PRAM/NVRAM resets didn't work.

 

I couldn't find any documentation on this happening to anyone else before. I was only able to determine the cause of the problem (it was M$ OneDrive). I was only able to correct the file system errors, but nothing else. 

 

I gave up and went for broke and just removed my BootCamp install and wiped the entire SSD. After reinstalling macOS I selected Restore from Time Machine and my computer was back to normal in about an hour. It literally copy and pasted my entire machine. 

 

I personally can't see myself ever owning a Windows laptop after that experience. 

[SenKa]

36 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I had an issue when I tried to boot my MacBook into Windows. Long story short I was getting display flickering in macOS but not Windows and the machine was running hot. SMC/PRAM/NVRAM resets didn't work.

 

I couldn't find any documentation on this happening to anyone else before. I was only able to determine the cause of the problem (it was M$ OneDrive). I was only able to correct the file system errors, but nothing else. 

 

I gave up and went for broke and just removed my BootCamp install and wiped the entire SSD. After reinstalling macOS I selected Restore from Time Machine and my computer was back to normal in about an hour. It literally copy and pasted my entire machine. 

 

I personally can't see myself ever owning a Windows laptop after that experience. 

I maintain a few windows devices, including my shop laptop (used mostly for making boot USB's as I have had the best success doing this from RUFUS). I've never seen issues like that, but at the same time I 100% do not doubt it at all.

 

Do you run MacsFanControl on your Macbook? I deem it a necessity these days.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Do you run MacsFanControl on your Macbook?

Yeah I do. But my MacBook has a 15W CPU so it doesn't get that hot. I have it mostly so my lap stays cooler. 

[SenKa]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yeah I do. But my MacBook has a 15W CPU so it doesn't get that hot. I have it mostly so my lap stays cooler. 

I have a 2014 Macbook Air. On the stock fan curve it will hit over 90c before the fan will ramp up at all. I have it set now not to go above 80c before pinning the fans. It levels off at ~50c under regular usage (Discord and Chrome open with music streaming.)

[imcaspar]

3 hours ago, GabenJr said:

My gaming PC is running Linux currently, my work PC is running Win10, and my laptop's macOS. For some things, I prefer macOS for sure - Time Machine is a big one (you can get back up and running REALLY fast after a format or drive replacement on a Mac), but also in terms of interoperability with the rest of the Apple ecosystem. Linux I like for its versatility; Being on the bleeding edge or sticking with old packages is a choice you can make for yourself there, and the developments along the gaming front have been exciting to say the least (I haven't booted my gaming PC into Windows in quite some time now). Windows... Well, it's Windows. Sometimes that's a good thing (software availability), and other times not so much (stability, customization, etc). The fun part is getting them all to work together nicely.

Thanks for the quick response!

I am just with you that it's the best option to stay open to all platforms. 

But at some point it's just annoying to always have to switch between ecosystems, especially if they're very restrictive like MacOS. Surely it's being made easy by all that

synchronisation platforms provided by every manufacturer - but privacy is a concerning point.

 

 

For some time I have now thought about building a computer focused towards complete virtualisation,

so there can be a quick switch between all the operating systems - unfortunately that is a very complicated and in many terms unstable solution.

 

 

One thing I wanted to share with this thread are Apples ridiculous prices overseas, in my case Germany:

 

The Base Core i9 option costs:

US Apple Store: 2799 USD

GER Apple Store: 3734 USD (3299Eur)

 

Now Germany has a general import tax of 19%, and there are no special taxes on Laptops. So if I do the math:

 

US Apple Store: 2799 USD * 1,19 = 3330 USD

 

Conclusion:

US Apple Store 2799 USD

GER Apple Store: 3734 USD

Self-Imported MBP: 3330 USD

 

WTH is the price difference coming from?

And it's not even an option to import one yourself, because you would have to send it back to the US for Repairs.

 

Maybe somebody can explain this to me? Thx

 

 

[Nicnac]

Holy shit is this video from a parallel universe or something?! Great editing, clean and professional (Anthony is great as always but looks even better in this one) AND LINUS IS ACTUALLY LOOKING DECENT FOR ONCE???

[SenKa]

8 minutes ago, caspar! said:

Thanks for the quick response!

I am just with you that it's the best option to stay open to all platforms. 

But at some point it's just annoying to always have to switch between ecosystems, especially if they're very restrictive like MacOS. Surely it's being made easy by all that

synchronisation platforms provided by every manufacturer - but privacy is a concerning point.

 

 

For some time I have now thought about building a computer focused towards complete virtualisation,

so there can be a quick switch between all the operating systems - unfortunately that is a very complicated and in many terms unstable solution.

 

 

One thing I wanted to share with this thread are Apples ridiculous prices overseas, in my case Germany:

 

The Base Core i9 option costs:

US Apple Store: 2799 USD

GER Apple Store: 3734 USD (3299Eur)

 

Now Germany has a general import tax of 19%, and there are no special taxes on Laptops. So if I do the math:

 

US Apple Store: 2799 USD * 1,19 = 3330 USD

 

Conclusion:

US Apple Store 2799 USD

GER Apple Store: 3734 USD

Self-Imported MBP: 3330 USD

 

WTH is the price difference coming from?

And it's not even an option to import one yourself, because you would have to send it back to the US for Repairs.

 

Maybe somebody can explain this to me? Thx

 

 

The simple answer, as I know it, is greed.

 

Apple knows they can charge more in Germany for some reason. This could be GDP, Average Income, or any number of other things of this nature. Germany is not the outlier here, tech products in korea cost 15-20% more across the board even when coming from companies that are headquartered there, such as LG.

 

There may be some other reason I am unaware of, such as some strange tense democracy between Germany and China (where all Apple products are assembled.), or the German government collecting an additional not commonly talked about tax, or any number of oddities. But that being said, I would imagine it is simply Apple squeezing every penny out of every market they can, just as every other company does/should.

[danwat1234]

10 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

The T2 chip does not allow utilities that modify basic functions you can otherwise. MacsFanControl does not work under windows, XTU does not work, and everything similar does not work.

 

Also, it is macOS, not iOS

So we can see the voltage of the CPU within MacOS but can't modify. Would be interesting to map out the frequency-voltage table and see if it can be used on other laptops.

[Foxlet]

On 6/9/2019 at 5:01 PM, SenpaiKaplan said:

2011 was taken off the supported list with High Sierra, actually. It is not officially supported on Mojave.

 

But, a guy named DosDude1 releases legacy patchers that allow non supported macs to run Mojave, supporting very old laptops like the 2007 Macbook, which I tested. It works very good, actually. Even GPU Acceleration was working on the old nVidia GPU if you use Dark Mode. Light Mode for some reason produces artifacts.

I have a mid-2009 MacBook Pro (on a Core2Duo), XNU can still work on Penryn+ processors to a degree, but I didn't involve any of dosdude's patchers (for various safety reasons).

[Tony Spranaitis]

On 6/9/2019 at 1:59 PM, GabenJr said:

Another year, another MacBook… Or so it seems. Has Apple changed more than just the spec this time around, or can we judge this book by its cover?

 

 

Buy a 2019 MacBook Pro from Apple: https://lmg.gg/8KVRs

 

Buy an ASUS SCAR III:
On Amazon: https://geni.us/Ykag0D
On Newegg: https://geni.us/4HOwG0

YOU did an awesome job on this video Anthony!

[Soppro]

Really cool to see the new MBP perform better without any changes to the thermal solution. Turns out Apple is listening (I like to think of them as some guy in the dark corner in the room taking notes of everyone) and they've finally done something.  I wonder what changes they've got in store on the keyboard front!